The Difference Between Bi-amping and Bi-wiring

[RichB]

A bi-amping test is the simply and cheap. You just need some decent gage wire.

Play a some 2 channel sources using only one speaker. Have someone else change the connections so you cannot see which is which.
I left the system on but not playing and was careful to not to short.

No level matching issues, but I verified that with a multi-meter and pure tones.

I don't quite get the thinking that folks can't trust their own ears. At some point, everyone does

- Rich

 

[Swerd]

I don't quite get the thinking that folks can't trust their own ears. At some point, everyone does

Some trust their ears without understanding how they can mislead themselves. Scientific method tries to avoid the circular logic of hearing what you believe and believing what you hear.

The first principle (of science) is that you must not fool yourself – and that you are the easiest person to fool.
Richard P. Feynmann, from Cargo Cult Science

 

[RichB]

Sure, folks listen to gear before buying it.
I get the argument that it is not a good test, but I think most of us have done that

I bought many Plasmas. Even when I knew they would look great at home, they looked like crap at Best Buy.
There is no substitute for using your head.

- Rich

 

[sharkman]

I don't quite get the thinking that folks can't trust their own ears. At some point, everyone does

- Rich

Ditto. We trust our ears when someone is talking to us. We trust our ears when on the phone. We can recognize slight differences in tone that tell us when someone is irate or happy or impressed on the phone, but suddenly we must throw all of that out the window when listening to gear.

 

[Swerd]

Sure, folks listen to gear before buying it.
I get the argument that it is not a good test, but I think most of us have done that

I bought many Plasmas. Even when I knew they would look great at home, they looked like crap at Best Buy.
There is no substitute for using your head.

I'm not trying to yank your chain, because I think you really do get it.

When you don't do a fair test while selecting speakers to buy, no one can suffer other than yourself. When discussing this in an online audio forum, many people can misunderstand. They do not get that basic senses can easily be misled by what you expect or believe.

 

[Paul Lane]

As long as they are ACTIVELY bi-amp and the custom hand-built XO are better than the original XO, that's all good.

I have not found a active crossover that was as good as my hand built (with excellent Cap's and coils) passive crossovers. Any Suggestions. Oh, and the sound has been dramatically improved.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I have not found a active crossover that was as good as my hand built (with excellent Cap's and coils) passive crossovers. Any Suggestions. Oh, and the sound has been dramatically improved.

Oh, I think the Focal Utopia speakers already have great passive internal crossovers.

I think most of us would never even think about replacing them - just like most owners of Salon 2, B&W 800 Diamond, or KEF Blade 2 would never think about replacing the internal passive crossovers.

So I figured you wanted to replace the internal passive crossovers with ACTIVE ones.

 

[highfigh]

Sure, folks listen to gear before buying it.
I get the argument that it is not a good test, but I think most of us have done that

I bought many Plasmas. Even when I knew they would look great at home, they looked like crap at Best Buy.
There is no substitute for using your head.

- Rich

They looked like crap at Beast Buy because they set the other TVs to Torch Mode, which makes people think they're better, just because they're brighter. Kind of like boosting hte bass and treble when trying to sell speakers and then the customer gets home and is disappointed because they don't hear the same thing. Plasma is great and I'm not happy about its demise, but I got mine, so....

 

[RichB]

^^^
Agreed. I picked up a picked up a Panasonic 60ZT65. Fantastic picture terrible fans implementation.
The Samsung 55 OLED looked pretty good in the stores. However, I will wait until I see them measure well.

I will also wait for Revel Ultima 3's

- Rich

 

[PENG]

They looked like crap at Beast Buy because they set the other TVs to Torch Mode, which makes people think they're better, just because they're brighter. Kind of like boosting hte bass and treble when trying to sell speakers and then the customer gets home and is disappointed because they don't hear the same thing. Plasma is great and I'm not happy about its demise, but I got mine, so....

That's one reason why you can't always trust your ears, not at Best Buy for example. Guess we already agreed long ago.

 

[highfigh]

That's one reason why you can't always trust your ears, not at Best Buy for example. Guess we already agreed long ago.

I wouldn't buy speakers from a big box store unless it was Magnolia and even then, I would want them to make some changes.

The last time I went to one, I was told that the sub was off when it was playing, they didn't know the speaker wires are reversed on one of the main speakers, they said they had set the tone controls at a neutral point (I checked when he left the room and found this wasn't true) I was told that the Def Tech 8060 doesn't have active woofers. The active woofer playing made all kinds of problems when he was trying to demo the subwoofers and he couldn't hear the effect, which was, NO BASS.

 

[highfigh]

That's one reason why you can't always trust your ears, not at Best Buy for example. Guess we already agreed long ago.

I just watched a video with Neil DeGrasse Tyson, where he was responding to a kid's question about UFOs. He basically said that once the brain becomes involved, any credibility to the claims goes out the window.

I think it would be great if it was possible to sneak into someone's house and install new equipment without the person's knowledge. That way, they might notice a difference, but not know why.

 

[RichB]

I just watched a video with Neil DeGrasse Tyson, where he was responding to a kid's question about UFOs. He basically said that once the brain becomes involved, any credibility to the claims goes out the window.

If you don't use your brain, you cannot be fooled because you are one

- Rich

 

[highfigh]

If you don't use your brain, you cannot be fooled because you are one

- Rich

He was talking about optical illusions at the time and said that they should be called 'brain failures'.

"I am, therefore, I think. Wait, what?"

 

[CJLA]

Hi Steve, If for example your speakers bass output was weak, so-to-speak, and you have compensated by increasing the gain via your bass adjustment in your receiver, could you also have done this or helped this by using a lower gauge speaker cable to the bass terminal and a slightly more resistive gauge to the tweeter terminal in a bi-wired set up? Just curious.
Thanks for the article!
CJLA

 

[brian ruvolo]

Great read and great video, very educating, so thank you! My question revolves about my current planned set up. I really wanted to set up a great system to play vinyl. My turntable is a Tec-12 MK2, and I just purchased two Polk Rti 12s to be the two towers that produce the sound (no sub, no other speakers). As the receiver, I bought a Yamaha R-S700 to power the speakers as a stereo set up. In your opinion, will this receiver be enough to drive these two tower speakers, or would you recommend purchasing a separate amplifier to help drive these speakers in a bi amp schematic? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I have these set up in an area that is approximately 800 square feet. Thanks!

Brian

 

[Craig_1000]

I have noticed a benifit (almost night and day for both me and the wife) going to Bi Amping (each amp is seperate so not vertical or horizontal) with a Rotel RB-956AX power amplifier. I moved from an Arcam A65+ which I was bi-wiring to a pair JM Focal 815 Cobalts. to using the Arcam as a pre-amplifier, whoch I then removed and replaced with a AudioLab Q-Dac. I am using a splitter cable atm as I cannot drive each amp from it own stereo output, not ideal.

I am looking for a good pre amplifier with both analogue and digital inputs that also has dual outputs for LR stero output. (I want to link up my Linn LP12 which I am missing atm).

Then I want to move to a better poweramp.

fyi I am using QED anniversary Bi-Wire cable.

 

[Andrew08]

I have bi wire awg 6 cable you read that right (six)
so don't tell me I need bigger wire...
i tried bi wire, double wire, passive bi amp, normal, bridge
i can't notice any different in bi wiring, double wiring(join the two cable together).
i can notice different when using bi amping
i also notice different when bridging

this is only my theory
my amp support 4-16ohm 150watt when doing normal, double wire, biwire, biamping
8-16ohm 300watt when bridging

my tweeter is 16ohm
my woofer is 8ohm

bridging, biwire, normal, double wire is 5.33ohm
bi amping makes them 16ohm and 8 ohm

edit
so yeah after listening to normal vs bi amping vs bridging i am sure the sound is very different.

 

[PENG]

my tweeter is 16ohm
my woofer is 8ohm

bridging, biwire, normal, double wire is 5.33ohm
bi amping makes them 16ohm and 8 ohm

edit
so yeah after listening to normal vs bi amping vs bridging i am sure the sound is very different.

The amplifier sees the impedance of the crossover and the driver combined. The impedance figures you provided above are valid only if there are no passive crossovers involved and you are biamping with two amps and active external crossovers.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Can't blame people for hearing and believing what they want.

But in my experience, passive bi-amp doesn't do anything.

Even with active bi-amp, the only thing useful to me is control of the bass (help room modes).