The Absolute Sound/Hi-Fi+ Guide to High-Performance Loudspeakers

haraldo

haraldo

Audioholic Warlord
here's a compilation of some of the speakers reviewed in the Absolute sound:
http://bit.ly/aHIqID

I know what many of you think about this magazine and these people :eek:
......but still.... there's a lot of stuff here and perhaps some of this may be useful.....
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
This article reminded me that no matter how much money you spend on your components and speakers, there is always something out there a little bigger and badder.

It's the law of diminishing returns x 100.

It's when A $200,000 speakers may sound better than a $2,000 speakers, but the difference in sound quality is not by 100 folds, but by 0.1 folds.

Or something like that.

So why waste money on a $10,000 or $20,000 speakers unless they sound twice as great as your current speakers?

I've listened to the $23,000 B&W 800D, and they don't sound twice as good as all the $2,000+ speakers I've listened to.

I've never auditioned the Wilson Audio $50K+ speakers, but from what I've heard, they don't sound twice as good as all the $2,000+ speakers out there either.
 
M

m_vanmeter

Full Audioholic
+1 ^^^^
for most mere mortals, there is a definate point where "good enough is good enough"....spending more money will not produce audible inprovements for most folks. Considering how damaged most of our hearing is now, I rarely believe the "golden ears" types unless they can qualify their opinions with a medical hearing test to back up their ability to even hear many frequencies :rolleyes:.
 
Rickster71

Rickster71

Audioholic Spartan
This article reminded me that no matter how much money you spend on your components and speakers, there is always something out there a little bigger and badder.

It's the law of diminishing returns x 100.

It's when A $200,000 speakers may sound better than a $2,000 speakers, but the difference in sound quality is not by 100 folds, but by 0.1 folds.

Or something like that.

So why waste money on a $10,000 or $20,000 speakers unless they sound twice as great as your current speakers?

I've listened to the $23,000 B&W 800D, and they don't sound twice as good as all the $2,000+ speakers I've listened to.

I've never auditioned the Wilson Audio $50K+ speakers, but from what I've heard, they don't sound twice as good as all the $2,000+ speakers out there either.
I agree, but...
For the people purchasing at this level, it's not about sounding $200k better; they buy them because they can!
If you're a Dhabi Oil Billionaire, you can buy the cars in the two links below. A $200,000 speaker is nothing.:D
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/04/15/super-rare-supercar-bugatti-veyron-pur-sang-for-sale-in-abu-dha/
http://www.rense.com/general88/whitegold.htm
.:eek:
 
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3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
I agree, but...
For the people purchasing at this level, it not about sounding $200k better; they buy them because they can!
If you're a Dhabi Oil Billionaire, you can buy the cars in the two links below. A $200,000 speaker is nothing.:D
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/04/15/super-rare-supercar-bugatti-veyron-pur-sang-for-sale-in-abu-dha/
http://www.rense.com/general88/whitegold.htm
.:eek:
I agree. The richer one is, the more one tends to spend on items of exclusivity more so then for quality.
 
haraldo

haraldo

Audioholic Warlord
+1 ^^^^
for most mere mortals, there is a definate point where "good enough is good enough"....spending more money will not produce audible inprovements for most folks. Considering how damaged most of our hearing is now, I rarely believe the "golden ears" types unless they can qualify their opinions with a medical hearing test to back up their ability to even hear many frequencies :rolleyes:.
Actually I'm not so sure about this.... coz I have been proven otherwise.......

This article reminded me that no matter how much money you spend on your components and speakers, there is always something out there a little bigger and badder.

It's the law of diminishing returns x 100.

It's when A $200,000 speakers may sound better than a $2,000 speakers, but the difference in sound tually, I'm not sure about thisquality is not by 100 folds, but by 0.1 folds.

Or something like that.

So why waste money on a $10,000 or $20,000 speakers unless they sound twice as great as your current speakers?

I've listened to the $23,000 B&W 800D, and they don't sound twice as good as all the $2,000+ speakers I've listened to.

I've never auditioned the Wilson Audio $50K+ speakers, but from what I've heard, they don't sound twice as good as all the $2,000+ speakers out there either.
I listened to the 800D too, and I don't even think they're any good at all, I don'ẗ get the sense of listen to music at all but something artificial and the bass for me is something booomy unnatural :eek: For me the B&W's are not good speakers.....

Yes I been too ultra high end shops where they demo systems in price range $400k+, and in some occasions it's been so good that... it's at least twice to three times as good as any normal sound system... so sensational that I could swear that they played an improved mastering of Pink Floyd, the wall. But it was not the case.... It makes a good sound system sound like a plastic ghetto blaster

I don't know what's the trick here but a stereo system may be so real, sound so good that you can't even believe what you're hearing... Just throwing in ultra expensive equipment is not gonna work..... I still remember almost falling out of a sofa by the shock of hearing Roger Waters so real in front of me..... I have no clue how I could get something like this in my living room....

These guys that demoed this spent 20 years optimizing demo facilities, have ultra expensive anything and when this is done right.... it's just beyond imagination......

What's been claimed is the holy grail is ultrawide bandwith and NO filters, as filters kill the dynamics.... any kind of filter..... (they claim), all parts in that system has a bandwith from 5Hz to 200KHz +, even speakers, and a CD player without digital filters at all.... and the only in-series component in speakers is a capacitor to protect tweeters

Guess this is like comparing a Bugatti Veyron to a normal car.......

Sometimes I wish I was a millionaire :p

System I'm referring to uses Wadia top-of-the-line CD Player, directly coupled to bridged Adyton Cordis 1.8 Poweramps (no preamp), Nordost Valhalla cables all over Burmester S8 subs and Adyton Imagic speakers and some power conditioners the size of a fridge, not to mention room with all kinds of treatments

A system like what I described above is probably a an unrealistic dream, like finding the gold at the end of a rainbow......
BUT I WANT IT :D

Perhaps it's possible to pursue at a much lower price point.........
 
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AJinFLA

AJinFLA

Banned
This article reminded me that no matter how much money you spend on your components and speakers, there is always something out there a little bigger and badder.
I've seen it before and read it differently.
I saw it as what happens when you have a pile of cash between your ears instead of a brain.

It's when A $200,000 speakers may sound better than a $2,000 speakers, but the difference in sound quality is not by 100 folds, but by 0.1 folds.

Or something like that.
The reality of the situation is the opposite. Past a certain price point (say >$10k), the probability of getting an absolute piece of garbage rises exponentially. You have left the realm of competent electro-acoustics engineering and entered the world of marketing engineering and audio foolery, where you are far more likely to get worse (electro-acoustic) performance and $350k buys you this.

So why waste money on a $10,000 or $20,000 speakers unless they sound twice as great as your current speakers?

I've listened to the $23,000 B&W 800D, and they don't sound twice as good as all the $2,000+ speakers I've listened to.

I've never auditioned the Wilson Audio $50K+ speakers, but from what I've heard, they don't sound twice as good as all the $2,000+ speakers out there either.
You really ought to put some decent speakers on your audition list before making comparisons ;).

B&W is the embodiment of mediocrity (as you have been shown) and Wilson is worse than that, the epitome of audiophile junk jewelry, like this Cubic Zirconia garbage recently tested by Stereopile.



:rolleyes:

cheers,

AJ:)
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
You really ought to put some decent speakers on your audition list before making comparisons ;).
It's not my fault AJ. I live in Oklahoma City, where the sole Revel dealership carries ONLY bookshelf speakers, and there are 2 B&W dealerships.:eek:

The only other speakers around here are Bose, Paradigm, Klipsch, Mirage, Vienna Acoustics, JBL, Infinity, DefTech, MartinLogan, and RBH.

I've been meaning to audtion the RBH flagship - maybe soon.

Of course, there aren't any Linkwitz Orion speakers around here.

I will have to find a real Revel dealership in Dallas one of these days that actually carries the Salon2.


The reality of the situation is the opposite. Past a certain price point (say >$10k), the probability of getting an absolute piece of garbage rises exponentially.
One of the many ironies in life I suppose.:D
 
AJinFLA

AJinFLA

Banned
It's not my fault AJ. I live in Oklahoma City

Of course, there aren't any Linkwitz Orion speakers around here.

I will have to find a real Revel dealership in Dallas one of these days that actually carries the Salon2.
Hmmm. Did you check here or here? Seems there is an OK listed.
Same with Geddes. I'd contact him directly. Many folks who own those type systems are glad to share the delights with other music lovers.
Ditto for Audiokinesis, Gradient and Danley Sound Labs, etc.
Put the JM Labs, Wilson et al in much better perspective.
No pro dealers where you could hear a JBL LSR or Genelec, etc?

cheers,

AJ
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Hmmm. Did you check here or here? Seems there is an OK listed.
Same with Geddes. I'd contact him directly. Many folks who own those type systems are glad to share the delights with other music lovers.
Ditto for Audiokinesis, Gradient and Danley Sound Labs, etc.
Put the JM Labs, Wilson et al in much better perspective.
No pro dealers where you could hear a JBL LSR or Genelec, etc?

cheers,

AJ
I might try that guy in OK regarding the Orion.
 
T

tom67

Full Audioholic
Very disturbing, but what if these people were the ultimate arbiters of quality sound?.....Maybe Lindsay Lohan owns some of these and we don't because we are afraid to spend a few bucks....I can't sleep just thinking about it....
 
Y

yepimonfire

Audioholic Samurai
price doesent mean quality always either, some of the most innacurate speakers are the most expensive, i remember reading an article about an infinity speaker winning in a blind test to a 70k speaker.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
price doesent mean quality always either, some of the most innacurate speakers are the most expensive, i remember reading an article about an infinity speaker winning in a blind test to a 70k speaker.
Yes, but Bose is still in business too.
 
Y

yepimonfire

Audioholic Samurai
Yes, but Bose is still in business too.
one more example. i've listenend to bose stuff before and it really is one of the most innacurate sounding things ever, i have said before, they sound like computer speakers.my cheapo sony's sound substantially better then they do.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I've listened to the $23,000 B&W 800D, and they don't sound twice as good as all the $2,000+ speakers I've listened to.
I don't understand why you have such hard time with B&W. I have been to enough live classical concerts to know that the B&W 802D (AJ is entitled to his opinions/claims etc as I am to mine....) offers the kind of live like' experience that I have been after over the years. I find most speakers I listened to in the past can do well with Jazz and pops but not classical music, especially with orchestral strings. Even with the better recordings, they tend to make orchestral strings sound grainy, as opposed to being smooth. The 802D does well in being able to reproduce strings smoothly as long as the source disc is of high quality. The 805 did not do it for me. May be the 805D would, if there is such a thing.

To be clear, I think you could be right about what you said in this post, because it is hard to define "twice as good". My comments refer more to your past comments on how bad, or not good enough, the B&W 800 series speakers sound. And yes I know you are not alone in this, but I simply don't understand why............ I think I am going to pack a few of my SACD and visit a couple other B&W dealers to renew or negate my faith in those speakers.
 
AJinFLA

AJinFLA

Banned
AJ is entitled to his opinions/claims etc as I am to mine....
What opinions/claims am I making WRT the 802D, that are purely subjective...like your opinions/claims?
Please be specific.

TIA
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I don't understand why you have such hard time with B&W. I have been to enough live classical concerts to know that the B&W 802D (AJ is entitled to his opinions/claims etc as I am to mine....) offers the kind of live like' experience that I have been after over the years. I find most speakers I listened to in the past can do well with Jazz and pops but not classical music, especially with orchestral strings. Even with the better recordings, they tend to make orchestral strings sound grainy, as opposed to being smooth. The 802D does well in being able to reproduce strings smoothly as long as the source disc is of high quality. The 805 did not do it for me. May be the 805D would, if there is such a thing.

To be clear, I think you could be right about what you said in this post, because it is hard to define "twice as good". My comments refer more to your past comments on how bad, or not good enough, the B&W 800 series speakers sound. And yes I know you are not alone in this, but I simply don't understand why............ I think I am going to pack a few of my SACD and visit a couple other B&W dealers to renew or negate my faith in those speakers.
I'm actually planning on auditioning the B&W again - this time at a 2nd dealership. I called them earlier this week, and they have the 802Ds in stock to audition.

And this time I'm also bringing classical music since I did not do this last time.

And it's also possible that I may not like "actual stage instrument sounds".:eek:

Is that possible?:D
 
Y

yepimonfire

Audioholic Samurai
i can't back this up with hard evidence because i forget where i read this and where i saw the graphs but B&W's supposedly are not very accurate.
 

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