That Sour and bitter drink

[Swerd]

Looks like they moved to a new domain: https://bonavita.life/products/8-cup-one-touch-thermal-carafe-coffee-brewer.

I won't recommend any Bonavita coffee maker. Your article indicates they are driven entirely by marketing and advertising instead of any desire to produce a quality product.

 

[ryanosaur]

From a cold start, how long does it take to bring up steam?

About 20 mins minimum from cold, or to fully warm the E61 brew head - about 40mins or so. The machine is cable of running 15 or 20 amps. It's currently on a regular 15 amp circuit. If I'd switch it to 20amp it would warm up quicker.

I concur, this is about the same for my Silvia. I can start running it about 15-20 minutes in, but for it to really come up to temp, I try to give it 45-60 minutes, which will thoroughly heat up the group head and portafilter. (If I'm trying to speed serve, I'll pull a couple plain water shots just to get hot water moving through the head and filter. The boiler heats up much faster than the rest of it and I can get some decent pulls in about 25 minutes.

 

[ryanosaur]

On a side note to machines, I had been fantasizing about upgrading mine. Not that I'm going to for a while; my Silvia is only 4 yrs old (come September).
But I do want to step up to a double boiler and rotary pump. (The vibratory pump is anoying, and the boiler doesn't really allow me to get good microfoam.)
Rancilio has the Silvia Pro X, now, which meets the dual boiler requirement, but not the rotary pump. I chatted with a guy that found a Rotary mod that will just fit inside, but that will add another $500 to the ticket.
I had been looking at the Lelit Bianca which checks all the boxes and then some... however, a very recent $600 price increase made me very sad. At $2500 it IS expensive, but relatively on par with the Silvia Pro + rotary Mod. At $3100, I need to rob a bank.

*sighs wistfully

For anyone questioning how a person could spend that much (~$3000) on a machine... I figure going to the Cafe costs me a minimum of $91 a week (including tip and if I don't buy a pastry).
I buy 2# bags of beans at $40 every 2 weeks for home consumption.
For ease of math, the cost of Beans cancels out one week of consumption at the Cafe. That leaves me with just under a $300 Cafe tab every month.
Buying that new machine would become budget neutral by 11 mos of regular usage. (Sooner, in fact, because when I don't go to the Cafe, I don't eat Pastries. Going to the cafe is nice, but say at $18 a day, you are dropping near $500 per month.)
Staying out of the Cafe, using the same math above, make this budget neutral at about 7-8 months!

Put that in your Demitasse and slurp it!

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

@ryanosaur how about this one, if you are not bothered too much about minor case damage (I bet if you remove the case, you could gently pound it straight)

OPEN BOX Lelit Bianca PID V2 Dual Boiler Espresso Machine w/ Manual Brew Pressure Profiling - PL162T

Introducing the PL162T Bianca from Lelit, their newest, dual boiler machine. With the Bianca, Lelit continues to outdo themselves and now lead the industry with the widest range of prosumer models. It packs some of the best technology that will make any barista jump for joy.

www.espressooutlet.net

Sad, it's same money that I've paid for my Quickmill 2b Evo back in 2016

 

[ryanosaur]

@ryanosaur how about this one, if you are not bothered too much about minor case damage (I bet if you remove the case, you could gently pound it straight)

OPEN BOX Lelit Bianca PID V2 Dual Boiler Espresso Machine w/ Manual Brew Pressure Profiling - PL162T

Introducing the PL162T Bianca from Lelit, their newest, dual boiler machine. With the Bianca, Lelit continues to outdo themselves and now lead the industry with the widest range of prosumer models. It packs some of the best technology that will make any barista jump for joy.

www.espressooutlet.net

Sad, it's same money that I've paid for my Quickmill 2b Evo back in 2016

I could care less about a ding in the chassis. That is pretty cool. Still not buying a machine today. *sighs
(I could only imagine what the Lady would say when she got home... " What'd you do today, babe?" "Ah, not much. Played video games, went grocery shopping, bought a new Espresso Machine..."

...whoops...)

 

[Swerd]

Rancilio has the Silvia Pro X, now, which meets the dual boiler requirement, but not the rotary pump. I chatted with a guy that found a Rotary mod that will just fit inside, but that will add another $500 to the ticket.

Is that Silvia Pro X the same as this Silvia Pro, sold by Sweet Maria's (in Oakland) at $1690? It's pro, but not X rated.

Rancilio Silvia 'PRO' Espresso Machine

We're excited about the new Silvia Pro, a significant upgrade from the basic Silvia M model, but maintaining to boxy, minimalist look and style. The Silvia Pro is dual boiler espresso machine for home, office or even light commercial use. It features a single group, saturated head made of brass...

www.sweetmarias.com

After seeing those prices, I will never let anyone call me a coffee snob because of my 15-year-old Technivorm.

 

[ryanosaur]

Is that Silvia Pro X the same as this Silvia Pro, sold by Sweet Maria's (in Oakland) at $1690? It's pro, but not X rated.

Rancilio Silvia 'PRO' Espresso Machine

We're excited about the new Silvia Pro, a significant upgrade from the basic Silvia M model, but maintaining to boxy, minimalist look and style. The Silvia Pro is dual boiler espresso machine for home, office or even light commercial use. It features a single group, saturated head made of brass...

www.sweetmarias.com

After seeing those prices, I will never let anyone call me a coffee snob because of my 15-year-old Technivorm.

The X is an updated version IIRC. I don't really know what changed.

After seeing those prices, I will never let anyone call me a coffee snob because of my 15-year-old Technivorm.

At a certain point, it doesn't matter. Obviously, my breaking point was in the $2000 to $2500 range. That price increase on the Bianca hurts me in my soul a bit.
'Cos at $3K, why not blow 6+ and just get the La Marzocco Linea Mini?

 

[Alex2507]

Your daily grinder

John called it "inexpensive electric".

 

[MrBoat]

A few thoughts …

I didn't know that Bonavita coffee makers are no longer made. They came on the scene a number of years ago, claiming they heated water to >200°F, but cost much less than a Technivorm. I never owned one, but I recommended them to friends because of those claims. Unfortunately, the heating elements didn't last more than 2-3 years. In contrast, the Technivorm I bought in 2007 (± a year or two) still runs now as it did when it was new. All the previous cheap electric drip coffee makers I've owned died after 2-3 years. That makes the Technivorm well worth the price.

Robusta coffee is often used in commercial blended coffee. It's cheap, grows fast, resists fungus that can devastate Arabica coffee plants, produces lots of caffeine, but tastes bitter if not blended with more expensive Arabica coffee. Countries that want to get into the coffee growing business often start with Robusta. The plants grow fast, and they produce coffee beans as early as the 2nd year after planting. Arabica plants take 5 years or more to begin to produce a crop. Years ago, Robusta was common in African countries other than Kenya and Ethiopia. Now countries like Burundi, Congo, Rwanda, & Tanzania have established their coffee trade and are moving to better quality Arabicas. More recently, Vietnam has been the biggest producer of Robusta.

Big commercial coffee brands use Robusta to keep their prices low. They know how to blend it with the more expensive Arabicas while maintaining their brand-identity taste profiles.

Robusta coffee beans are also the source of caffeine for all those sodas and 'energy drinks'.

I had read that and the friend who set me up with roasting said pretty much the same. I intend to try blending it just to see if it is something I like. I have tried 5 different coffees recently, two from Ethiopia, and he left me these others to try, as well.

 

[Swerd]

Never got that. BSA talked me into this.

 

[Swerd]

Never got that. BSA talked me into this.
View attachment 56812

It's very sturdy.

Last fall, it stopped when this piece of chain link got jammed into the burrs. It must have fallen into some coffee beans as they were washed & processed. I had bought it roasted. The grinder was none the worse for the wear, but the link looked like it had a rough time.

 

[lovinthehd]

Never got that. BSA talked me into this.
View attachment 56812

Good performer, have used them for years (and gave one to my sister, too). Never tried a chain link to test, altho I've got hundreds out in the workshop

Got one of these recently and like it a bit more for espresso precision https://1zpresso.coffee/product/kplus/

 

[Mikado463]

It's very sturdy.

Last fall, it stopped when this piece of chain link got jammed into the burrs. It must have fallen into some coffee beans as they were washed & processed. I had bought it roasted. The grinder was none the worse for the wear, but the link looked like it had a rough time.
View attachment 56813

oh my, speaks well for the quality of your grinder to hold up !

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I could care less about a ding in the chassis. That is pretty cool. Still not buying a machine today. *sighs
(I could only imagine what the Lady would say when she got home... " What'd you do today, babe?" "Ah, not much. Played video games, went grocery shopping, bought a new Espresso Machine..."
...whoops...)

It would be easier to ask forgiveness than permission, though my better half never stopped me from buying anything. She may like the how shiny it is

 

[j_garcia]

View attachment 56811

John called it "inexpensive electric".

It worked just fine, I gave it to my kids when I got the new one and they like it.

 

[Verdinut]

A few thoughts …

I didn't know that Bonavita coffee makers are no longer made. They came on the scene a number of years ago, claiming they heated water to >200°F, but cost much less than a Technivorm. I never owned one, but I recommended them to friends because of those claims. Unfortunately, the heating elements didn't last more than 2-3 years. In contrast, the Technivorm I bought in 2007 (± a year or two) still runs now as it did when it was new. All the previous cheap electric drip coffee makers I've owned died after 2-3 years. That makes the Technivorm well worth the price.

Robusta coffee is often used in commercial blended coffee. It's cheap, grows fast, resists fungus that can devastate Arabica coffee plants, produces lots of caffeine, but tastes bitter if not blended with more expensive Arabica coffee. Countries that want to get into the coffee growing business often start with Robusta. The plants grow fast, and they produce coffee beans as early as the 2nd year after planting. Arabica plants take 5 years or more to begin to produce a crop. Years ago, Robusta was common in African countries other than Kenya and Ethiopia. Now countries like Burundi, Congo, Rwanda, & Tanzania have established their coffee trade and are moving to better quality Arabicas. More recently, Vietnam has been the biggest producer of Robusta.

Big commercial coffee brands use Robusta to keep their prices low. They know how to blend it with the more expensive Arabicas while maintaining their brand-identity taste profiles.

Robusta coffee beans are also the source of caffeine for all those sodas and 'energy drinks'.

Robusta coffee is what is used as well in instant coffee sold in grocery stores: Nescafe and others.

 

[Verdinut]

This is the grinder that I use: The Breville Smart Grinder

 

[j_garcia]

This is pretty interesting and I had never heard it before. It came up in my feed a while back and I was kind of skeptical. I tried it though, and it totally works. One drop in my beans when grinding removed not only the dusting from that grind, but actually caused the old dust that was attached to the glass container to de-dust as well.

Why adding water when you grind coffee beans makes for a better brew

Coffee aficionados often add a drop of water to their beans before grinding – now scientists have shown that this leads to less mess and a more flavourful espresso

www.newscientist.com

.
I can't honestly say I can tell if it tastes any better, but it makes sense why brewing would be improved as well.

 

[ryanosaur]

I’ve been seeing these stories pop up from time to time. Haven’t tried it myself. Strangely, not a lot of everyday espresso folk seem to be embracing it for the suggested benefit of less mess. *shrugs
Perhaps I’ll give it a shot.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I've heard about, but I am doubtful for two reasons:
a) My grinder isn't a single doze, and sprinkling a drop of water into 1 lb of coffee beans will unlikely help. I'm not doing a single doze grinder specifically because I don't want it, as having a bunch of whole beans already sitting ready in the grinder is a major convenience.
b) I would be hesitant to add water to the grinder as it may start or accelerate rusting on the grinding blades. No thanks. I don't have $600 to buy yet another new espresso grinder.

btw:
This is a pretty good deal for an espresso grinder - I have exactly the same model at home, I bought it back in 2018, and am still 100% happy with it.

Fiorenzato F4 Nano V2 Espresso Coffee Grinder | 1st-line.com

www.1st-line.com