Tell me about Nakamichi DR-3 Cassette Deck

  • Thread starter ericsdeadletteroffice
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E

ericsdeadletteroffice

Audioholic Intern
After down a rabbit hole over picking up a "new" deck I'm thinking of picking one of these up.

I've read this and that about Nakamichi's sounding best playing back tapes they recorded than anything else? Is this true? I intend to use it to play back commercial releases.

Am I on a good path with this deck to play my collection?

Of the 20 or some recorded tapes I do own, will it actually not sound great or is this a wives tale?

Thank you.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Are used to own a Nakamichi deck and it would make great recordings of impressive quality! However I never got decent sound out of commercial recordings.
I will be interested in the other responses you get, but I kind of have the impression that it's important that you play back on the same unit or type of unit that the recording was made on.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
I agree with KEW. Back in the day, the better cassette decks could make decent copies of LPs. But the commercially made cassette tapes were at best hit or miss, and mainly they were miss.

People always said that a tape you made and played back on the same (or similar) deck sounded better than tapes made on one deck and played back on another. I don't know anyone who ever tested that to see how true it was.

Cassette recorders and tapes are ancient technology that were only adequate at their best. They never made a recording that sounded better than what they were copying. They also required a fair amount of maintenance to work well, and I have to wonder what an old cassette deck would require just to function as it once did. Now that various digital formats are commonplace, any technology from the 60s or 70s is not worth it. You might be better off buying digital copies of those 20 old tapes – if that music is still available.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I can't imagine buying a cassette deck again for any reason, especially not to play merely 20 pre-recorded cassettes. I also had better luck with cassettes in making copies of LPs/mix tapes from LPs than anything else, the few pre-recorded cassettes I bought way back then didn't encourage me to buy any more....

But @3db is a cassette kinda guy still, I'd ask him if you're determined....
 
E

ericsdeadletteroffice

Audioholic Intern
I can't imagine buying a cassette deck again for any reason, especially not to play merely 20 pre-recorded cassettes. I also had better luck with cassettes in making copies of LPs/mix tapes from LPs than anything else, the few pre-recorded cassettes I bought way back then didn't encourage me to buy any more....
It's not to only play 20 comp cassettes I have. I just like to play all kinds of formats, including old commercial cassettes. Generally I have all these albums on Cassette, CD, vinyl. I actually enjoy the sound of a cassette. It has a certain charm to it.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Curious, what's the asking price on the Nakamichi and is it recently refurbished or?

Good luck in any case, never looked back after chucking cassettes; don't recall ever thinking "charming" :), just found them convenient, mostly for car and portable personal player/boombox type use.
 
E

ericsdeadletteroffice

Audioholic Intern
Curious, what's the asking price on the Nakamichi and is it recently refurbished or?

Good luck in any case, never looked back after chucking cassettes; don't recall ever thinking "charming" :), just found them convenient, mostly for car and portable personal player/boombox type use.
I'm a nerd. I run a record label for a living. Cassettes are actually making a little come back. We have made limited runs of Stranger Things and the Drive Soundtrack that have sold several thousand copies.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
LOL consider myself a nerd, too, but prefers better audio quality than cassettes deliver (or vinyl for that matter). Good luck with what I assume is Lakeshore Records....
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
I'm a nerd. I run a record label for a living. Cassettes are actually making a little come back. We have made limited runs of Stranger Things and the Drive Soundtrack that have sold several thousand copies.
I used my cassette deck primarily so my vinyl would stay in pristine condition.
I was disappointed by all of the commercial cassettes I bought and tried to play on the Nak.
Much of that was probably because commercial tapes seldom employed the better performing metal tapes, so they generally lacked high frequencies and sounded dull. Dolby B was standard on commercial tapes, but Dolby C never seemed to become a commercial standard, so the noise reduction was not as good.
Also, now that my memory has been piqued for more than a few minutes, I do remember that the cassettes I recorded sounded pretty good on my car stereo (I don't remember if it was Concorde or Clarion, but it was expensive, but not very top of the line) and also Blaupunkt. Not as good as when played back on the Nak, but good enough to sound fine with road noise!
Similarly, I now remember cassettes I compiled and shared with friends definitely sounded better than the commercial tapes. So maybe the absence of metal tape and Dolby C were the main liabilities of teh commercial cassettes...
Good luck.
Also, a heads up... be careful to keep your heads clean when playing old tapes. I understand that the magnetic particles tend to separate from the tape over time.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
After down a rabbit hole over picking up a "new" deck I'm thinking of picking one of these up.

I've read this and that about Nakamichi's sounding best playing back tapes they recorded than anything else? Is this true? I intend to use it to play back commercial releases.

Am I on a good path with this deck to play my collection?

Of the 20 or some recorded tapes I do own, will it actually not sound great or is this a wives tale?

Thank you.
All tape machines tend to playback better with tapes made on them, especially cassette decks as the tape is so narrow and runs at very low speed. This means that azimuth errors cause a lot of trouble. So at least for a while, a tape made an played back on the same machine will not have azimuth error until the heads get further out of alignment.

Tape machines need constant recalibratiion for azimuth, Eq and record bias. Equipment required is a laboratory grade alignment tape, and accurate amplified VOM and preferable a combined VOM and distortion analyser. A signal generator is also required and an o-scope is helpful to look at intertrack phase.

Older tape machines will now be well out of specification unless recently aligned. Cassette machines are so touchy they need attention every time they are moved.

Commercial tapes sound much worse than home made ones. This is because home tapes are real speed. Commercial tapes are high speed copies, so the frequencies are high and there is always tape saturation with high distortion and HF loss.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
All tape machines tend to playback better with tapes made on them, especially cassette decks as the tape is so narrow and runs at very low speed. This means that azimuth errors cause a lot of trouble. So at least for a while, a tape made an played back on the same machine will not have azimuth error until the heads get further out of alignment.

Tape machines need constant recalibratiion for azimuth, Eq and record bias. Equipment required is a laboratory grade alignment tape, and accurate amplified VOM and preferable a combined VOM and distortion analyser. A signal generator is also required and an o-scope is helpful to look at intertrack phase.

Older tape machines will now be well out of specification unless recently aligned. Cassette machines are so touchy they need attention every time they are moved.

Commercial tapes sound much worse than home made ones. This is because home tapes are real speed. Commercial tapes are high speed copies, so the frequencies are high and there is always tape saturation with high distortion and HF loss.
The better Nakamichi units included an azimuth calibration system!
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
I'm a nerd. I run a record label for a living. Cassettes are actually making a little come back. We have made limited runs of Stranger Things and the Drive Soundtrack that have sold several thousand copies.
That's fine if you choose to do that, but why did you feel the need for the deception of your original post? Is that they way you also run your business? It won't earn any admiration around here.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
The DR-3 was better than many "pedestrian" quality ones. The more desirable ones in their offering were the Dragon, ZX-9 & CR-7.

The DR-3 is only a 2-head design. The 3-head design ones are generally better.

https://www.vintagecassette.com/nakamichi
Thank you!
I had assumed this was one of their better units.
A two head would not be of the caliber I was thinking of.

In my opinion, if you are interested in Reviving a vintage Nakamichi, it makes no sense to choose one of their lesser units!
 
Johnny2Bad

Johnny2Bad

Audioholic Chief
I am familiar with the Tape Duplication business (the firms who churn out commercial releases). A Nak will do just fine on pre-recorded music tapes. Yes, it's capable of outstanding quality when given a source and asked to make the recording, and yes, the commercial tapes you will be using are of lesser Sound Quality (SQ) than what it could do given the same source on CD or LP, but they are what they are.

Generally speaking commercial tapes are made on moderate quality Normal Bias tape, with the cheapest possible case (which, in any cassette deck, forms part of the mechanism, versus, say, an open reel machine whereby it's just the tape itself and the entire mechanism is the machine only) so that affects ultimate SQ.

Also, with the cassette format being somewhat dependent on the mechanism being partly contained in the tape housing itself, and this is true of pretty much any cassette machine, the tape width being quite narrow, tapes will always sound best on the machine used for recording; there are small alignment issues that affect the Signal-to-Noise to some extent. It's not huge, but it's there.

The final thing that you have to realize is commercial pre-recorded cassettes were intended (like all music formats and releases) for the widest possible audience. So, things like Dolby NR isn't always employed, so that the cheapest portable machines could play the tapes, because that was the majority of users, not people with exotic tape machines. Thus the normal bias tape (leaving aside for the moment that record companies are notorious cheapskates, so it was used because it cost the least).

Also, making the tapes themselves (in companies known as "Tape Duplicators") has to be done more-or-less in real time (versus CDs and LPs, where you could crank one out in the time it takes to read this sentence).

The big "LA" duplication firms use technology (of course) to minimize the production time. Firstly by recording both sides at the same time (two masters, one played backwards) and by recording the tapes at what amounts to double speed (if you control the speed of both the master and the final product, you can manipulate the speed any way you want, so probably not exactly double speed and possibly higher, but there is a SQ limit so they did show some restraint)..

The trouble with that is bass response falls as tape speed increases (this is true of all tape machines, but open reel units can compensate with wider tape. None the less, even on an open reel machine, best bass response is with a slower speed versus 30 or 15 IPS (Pro and Consumer top speeds, respectively).

Back in the day when cassettes and LP records and CDs existed side-by-side, manufacturing cost went LP > Cassette > CD in that order. About $1.25 > About $1.75 > About $2.50. After some time, the CD format continued to be less and less expensive to make, so by the time the mid-90's rolled around it had fallen to become the least expensive. But, as I said, record labels are notoriously cheap. The tapes came in boxes, no cases, with labels on a roll and by themselves cost about 50c each (the rest of the cost being production costs of one kind or another).

The label would print their own cassette labels and liner artwork and the whole shebang would be assembled with cases into a retail package. Now take note that a quality blank cassette retailed for about $5, and manufacturing cost, remember they had no cost to put music on the tapes ... would still be more than that of the entire pre-recorded variant. So, perhaps five times what the blank cassette itself used for commercial releases cost. Note that the blank tapes were made by the same companies; that cost difference isn't some hidden profit "bonus".

Having said all that ( I hope you're not depressed by this point) Naks do very well on Normal Bias tape and the part of the mechanism they do get to handle in the cassette format is done quite well.

If you don't intend to do any recording, a 3-head machine is kind of overkill. A 2-head machine would do just as well as far as being limited to playback only of commercially recorded tapes. Although 2-head Naks are slightly lower in overall performance (and only slightly) they are none the less much better than the machine used to create your commercial copy.

You do get the tape handling advantages of a dual capstan drive, which is far from trivial, in a 3-head Nak but they also make some dual capstan 2-heads as well. So there is an opportunity to save some money if you want.

Naks work best with (are biased at the factory for) Maxell XLII tape*, but since bias is available on the machine you can set it up with any brand or type of tape. TDK SAII is highly recommended for a High Bias type blank tape.

* Nakamichi branded tape, not sold in North America but sold in Japan, was made by Maxell.
 
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KenM10759

KenM10759

Audioholic Samurai
That's a lot of GOOD information @Johnny2Bad and rings true. I always wondered why reel-to-reel tapes sounded so much better than cassettes and assumed it was just the wider tape had more magnetic surface area. I never considered tape speed also matters, and didn't realize the losses caused by speed.

It makes perfect sense that commercial production cannot record the tracks in real time the way we would at home with our LP playing and the cassette recording at the one speed they have. Now I'm just as curious how CD's are made when I know how long it took me to burn one on my PC. Do the commercial CD makers effectively "press" it in a similar way to how LP's are made?

This thread made me long for the NAD 6340 tape deck I once owned, so I went looking to see if any of the NAD 6300 were available. Those were their top-of-the-line model and I did find one. I almost clicked on 'buy it" then realized why I shouldn't. I just don't need to record LP's. Every one I own I can find on-line and stream a far better version than I could record.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
This thread made me long for the NAD 6340 tape deck I once owned, so I went looking to see if any of the NAD 6300 were available. Those were their top-of-the-line model and I did find one. I almost clicked on 'buy it" then realized why I shouldn't. I just don't need to record LP's. Every one I own I can find on-line and stream a far better version than I could record.
Exactly!

This whole thread had the opposite effect on me. I was glad to got rid of my cassette deck years ago, and reading this thread only confirms that feeling. I am unhappy to see the so-called resurgence of vinyl LPs, and even less happy to learn that people are trying to bring back audio cassette tapes, an even worse technology.

The only good thing I can say about cassette tapes is their portability made car stereo and the Sony Walkman possible.
 
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M

MrBoat

Audioholic Ninja
I'm pretty nostalgic when it comes to old tech, but even I don't want to revisit vinyl and tape. That tells me the quality difference must have been that apparent when CDs came out. So much so, that I still don't take it for granted this many years later. The one positive with vinyl is that I take care of my CDs much like I did my albums just trying to avoid dust pops and scratches, which took a pretty high degree of carefulness. To me, CDs still feel like owning vinyl, so I don't miss the physical association either.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
The one positive with vinyl is that I take care of my CDs much like I did my albums just trying to avoid dust pops and scratches, which took a pretty high degree of carefulness.
LOL! I'm the same. It seems many older guys who grew up with vinyl LPs, still use their fingertips to handle CD discs only by the edges today. Some old habits never die.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Curious, what's the asking price on the Nakamichi and is it recently refurbished or?

Good luck in any case, never looked back after chucking cassettes; don't recall ever thinking "charming" :), just found them convenient, mostly for car and portable personal player/boombox type use.
Not if you consider low fidelity and background hiss as charming! :p
 

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