Tekton Enzo - The most inexpensive speakers that is in the league with high-end speaker

[fuzz092888]

Aren't ALL digitital sources compressed to an extent? I dont think it will EVER be as good as a plain old analog. (for music ofcourse)

But ofcourse the ones that recorded the actual source are using digital components to record it anyway, and I usually listen to mainstream hip-hop and 90's to now material anyway so I get your point.

So you think that you could tell the difference between a BD or WAV or FLAC track and an analog track? I highly doubt that. In fact I'd put money on it that you couldn't in a blind test.

EVERY single owner that did the Mondorf SIO cap upgrade with whichever speaker they have been more than pleased with it.

So far from what I've read it gives you 3d like transperency imaging, better refind bass, and detail and also gives smoothness to vocals.


The cap upgrade for the M-Lore are only $200.00 opposed to the Lore and the pendragons which is $650 and $750.

Two words. Hocus Pocus. Again, I'd put money down saying they wouldn't be able to conclusively tell which is which in a blind test.

 

[SearchofSub]

Over at AVS, someone just posted this.

People should note this.


It seems to me like from reading the posts that those who order eNZO's recieve their speakers in 4-5 weeks.

The Lores about 3 monthes.

and the M-Lores/Lore-S about 4-5 monthes.


The Pndragons are all over the place...


So far I think enzo's are being built and shipped out the fastest..

 

[slipperybidness]

The same analogy that you suggested. Lets try it with a Tree


I thought the soil or grounds is the amp/pre-amp, the branches being the cables, and the leaves that have bloomed being the speakers. All important.


What I notice about the people who say speaker cables do NOT matter all have AVR recievers. When you then read posts made my those who uses seperate amp/ pre amp's all of them say cables do matter...

Hmmmm....Well if this is your philosophy, then you have obviously missed a piece of the chain. What about your power cords, would that not be the roots of the tree? Surely you aren't gonna just plug all your equipment into the wall with the stock power cords and risk having wimpy roots supporting your entire system. A power cord upgrade seems to be in order!

Last question. How do you suppose that the signals are passed from one stage (input stage, gain stage, output stage) in most modern audio gear? It is done on very thin copper traces deposited on fiberglass boards.

Now my ST-70 Amp on the other hand is mostly point-to-point wiring (that I did by hand)

 

[SearchofSub]

So you think that you could tell the difference between a BD or WAV or FLAC track and an analog track? I highly doubt that. In fact I'd put money on it that you couldn't in a blind test.



Two words. Hocus Pocus. Again, I'd put money down saying they wouldn't be able to conclusively tell which is which in a blind test.

As far as the Mundorf SIO cap upgrade goes, you can call it a psych-effect for someone wanting that listening "pleasure", but in this case, it is not because all the owners report initially it sounds "harsh" and negative then opens up around 250-300 hours burn-in.

But all of them report it as sounding like total crap initially.

 

[ImcLoud]

LOL dont turn on me this fast, your the one that got me thinking of getting a AMP/DAC etc lol.

The reason why I am getting a low wattage amp is because the M-Lores are rated at 95db 1w@1m with 8ohms which would mean they are best drived with low wattage amps (10 watt per channel or below) amps. (atleast a pro reviewer says).

I kind of thought about it for a minute here and I guess it makes sense that if one were to go HT it would not matter much because the very sources (dvd's and blurays) are DIGITAL and are compressed to begin with so that would mean even if you have a $10,000 cables that have the highest technical standards it wouldnt mean much since the sources are NOT analog but digital.

But that also puts a question in my newbie mind... Then why did you get seperate amps and cables when the very musiuc you listen to are CD's and are compressed even more so than DVD's and bluray discs?


Ultimately I think there are more to your Lores than what you are getting out of them right now with better speaker cables and low-wattage amps and turntables.

I'm not turning on you but do me a favor, and think about this...

I and the others on this board have a decent amount of experience with this stuff, and NOTHING to gain but you getting an awesome system for your money....

If you are looking for a decent speaker a little different than the norm for music and using a low power amp the Tektons are your guys, if you are looking for something for movies and HT you can do better for less than the tektons...

I own the Lores because I have too much money and wanted something different in my bedroom that would go loud with a short powered tube amp because tubes glow and it looks cool, thats it, Eric did the color I wanted, they sound good and loud with low power, and look sexy, with out costing too much where I would question my sanity for making the purchase...

Now if I were building something to install on a tv and watch movies with, I wouldn't care much about the sens rating, I would want something flat, warm, reliable {HT systems run for a long time}, small {bookshelfs are nice because they give you what you need, sound down to 80 or so, since they are crossed to a sub} with a good warranty. And of course a sub or subs that can pressurize my HT room with ease...

Now as for a amp and dac, that again is for music, I use a dac and amp for my music only systems, for a HT, you can get an AVR and add amps later for more headroom {usually just for your front 3}.... DAC is a digital to analog converter, so it will take your digital ipad or cds and convert them to the analog our amps get sent, having a really big nice dac makes a difference vs the tiny one built into some units, cd players, and ipods or pc's....

If I were you I would look into a good HSU subwoofer, some ascend 340s and 200 surrounds, and a decent avr like a denon 3312 or Pioneer 1222k {you can score these for around $550}...

Or don't, but be warned, what you listed for equipment is not going to end well, you are wasting all kinds of money and not even on the rite side of the street with it... Before you spend what you have listed I think a decent HTIB would make you happier for HT... You are over thinking every turn, and there is no reason for it, we are here to show you the rite way, I don't recommend tekton for HT, he really doesn't even advertise center channels {or didn't used to} and if he did make them they would be HUGE and front ported...

I already went through this testing geat and talking to people at almost every speaker company in the country, I tested sp many speakers I almost just gave up and went with a sound bar for my HT, then with in a week it all came together, ascends sound great, they surpass speakers that cost 3-5 times as much, HSU subs also perform past their cost and both companies have an outstanding track record, and great customer support...

Do yourself a favor and leave tekton for when you build yourself a tube music only system, after your HT is done and your 2.2 music system is done, I didn't buy mine until I already had over 30 speakers in the house... I am up to 52 speakers in my house and hooked up as of rite now.. then I have a 3 more systems in my work offices and garage... My inlaws just stayed with us for a while, and counted for me lol, I have 12 in my ceilings then 8 outside just for the whole house system, then I have 2-5.1's {on in my HT and one in my guest suites parlor}, 2 in the gym, 4 in my front parlors 2.2 system, 4 in my jade 2.2 system, 3 in my office in the 2.1, 2 in the garage, 5 in my bedroom- 3.1 plus the 2 tektons, my kids both have speakers in there rooms for a total of 5 {I tool the subs away, they couldn't be trusted}, that's not including the 10-15 I have in boxes in my storage area, I bought an evo ceneter and surrounds when I built my 2.2 in case I ever wanted to make it a theater and couldn't find the matching center....

 

[SearchofSub]

Hmmmm....Well if this is your philosophy, then you have obviously missed a piece of the chain. What about your power cords, would that not be the roots of the tree? Surely you aren't gonna just plug all your equipment into the wall with the stock power cords and risk having wimpy roots supporting your entire system. A power cord upgrade seems to be in order!

Last question. How do you suppose that the signals are passed from one stage (input stage, gain stage, output stage) in most modern audio gear? It is done on very thin copper traces deposited on fiberglass boards.

Now my ST-70 Amp on the other hand is mostly point-to-point wiring (that I did by hand)

I suppose one needs to get a power-cord that is sturdy and controls the currents and spikes of electric currents most of all.

 

[fuzz092888]

As far as the Mundorf SIO cap upgrade goes, you can call it a psych-effect for someone wanting that listening "pleasure", but in this case, it is not because all the owners report initially it sounds "harsh" and negative then opens up around 250-300 hours burn-in.

But all of them report it as sounding like total crap initially.

Using user reviews as your basis for stating something as fact is.........well.......not very scientific and therefore believable. And listening to something for 300 hours isn't going to do anything psychologically to a person? Oh boy.

 

[fuzz092888]

I suppose one needs to get a power-cord that is sturdy and controls the currents and spikes of electric currents most of all.

Alright, I'm out. I wash my hands of this thread.

 

[SearchofSub]

I'm not turning on you but do me a favor, and think about this...

I and the others on this board have a decent amount of experience with this stuff, and NOTHING to gain but you getting an awesome system for your money....

If you are looking for a decent speaker a little different than the norm for music and using a low power amp the Tektons are your guys, if you are looking for something for movies and HT you can do better for less than the tektons...

I own the Lores because I have too much money and wanted something different in my bedroom that would go loud with a short powered tube amp because tubes glow and it looks cool, thats it, Eric did the color I wanted, they sound good and loud with low power, and look sexy, with out costing too much where I would question my sanity for making the purchase...

Now if I were building something to install on a tv and watch movies with, I wouldn't care much about the sens rating, I would want something flat, warm, reliable {HT systems run for a long time}, small {bookshelfs are nice because they give you what you need, sound down to 80 or so, since they are crossed to a sub} with a good warranty. And of course a sub or subs that can pressurize my HT room with ease...

Now as for a amp and dac, that again is for music, I use a dac and amp for my music only systems, for a HT, you can get an AVR and add amps later for more headroom {usually just for your front 3}.... DAC is a digital to analog converter, so it will take your digital ipad or cds and convert them to the analog our amps get sent, having a really big nice dac makes a difference vs the tiny one built into some units, cd players, and ipods or pc's....

If I were you I would look into a good HSU subwoofer, some ascend 340s and 200 surrounds, and a decent avr like a denon 3312 or Pioneer 1222k {you can score these for around $550}...

Or don't, but be warned, what you listed for equipment is not going to end well, you are wasting all kinds of money and not even on the rite side of the street with it... Before you spend what you have listed I think a decent HTIB would make you happier for HT... You are over thinking every turn, and there is no reason for it, we are here to show you the rite way, I don't recommend tekton for HT, he really doesn't even advertise center channels {or didn't used to} and if he did make them they would be HUGE and front ported...

I already went through this testing geat and talking to people at almost every speaker company in the country, I tested sp many speakers I almost just gave up and went with a sound bar for my HT, then with in a week it all came together, ascends sound great, they surpass speakers that cost 3-5 times as much, HSU subs also perform past their cost and both companies have an outstanding track record, and great customer support...

Do yourself a favor and leave tekton for when you build yourself a tube music only system, after your HT is done and your 2.2 music system is done, I didn't buy mine until I already had over 30 speakers in the house... I am up to 52 speakers in my house and hooked up as of rite now.. then I have a 3 more systems in my work offices and garage... My inlaws just stayed with us for a while, and counted for me lol, I have 12 in my ceilings then 8 outside just for the whole house system, then I have 2-5.1's {on in my HT and one in my guest suites parlor}, 2 in the gym, 4 in my front parlors 2.2 system, 4 in my jade 2.2 system, 3 in my office in the 2.1, 2 in the garage, 5 in my bedroom- 3.1 plus the 2 tektons, my kids both have speakers in there rooms for a total of 5 {I tool the subs away, they couldn't be trusted}, that's not including the 10-15 I have in boxes in my storage area, I bought an evo ceneter and surrounds when I built my 2.2 in case I ever wanted to make it a theater and couldn't find the matching center....

Perhaps I am over thinking this. But I want to understand everything fully before I move onto certain subjects.

What I dont understand is, what is the diffrence between music set-up and ht set-up. Even with HT 7.1 recievers like denons and pioneers, the circuits tranfer digital audio information to analog anyway. So in the end, both set-ups are the same thing.

If your speakers crave low-wattage amps and is high efficienct, then it is BETTER to go with a seperate amp that is low wattage and a pre-amp combo for your HT as well as music set-up.

If your speakers are low-mid effecicient and crave power, then it is understable that you would go with a plain old 5.1 reciever that supplies 200w per channel etc. (Because that is how all 5.1/7/1 denons,pioneers,onkyos are made now anyway.)


Now if the audio source HD or not (not video) gets deconverted to analog by the circuits, then wouldnt it be left to the speaker cables to do the job of unity,imaging,cleanness,vocal texture to bring it out to the spaeker? (If one were to go in pure direct or stereo mode which is my case/2.0 or 2.1)Then if the speakers are CAPABLE speakers to produce the sound without any colorization, (which the tektons are since many owners say they sound different per amp) then I think the AMP and the Speakers cables for THIS particular speaker is very important.


I am rather getting to a point to belive that recievers and those that make audio equipment started taking other routes to take to sell their products. They cut quality of the old school gear that were better and always will be and crammed them up in a reciever. (ofcourse sacrificng quality of sound).

Kind of like HTIB to individual speakers whereas in this case, you can compare an 5.1 or 7.1 reciever to a HTIB vs. seperates to the better sounding gear.


Thanks for your post, I am actually very intersetd in the Ascend speakers with NrT installed. Let me do some more researching on these speakers, and who knows, by the end of all this I might end up with Acsend and rythmic combo.

 

[chaluga]

Shady was making a joke, Chaluga.

Oops, sorry Shady

 

[slipperybidness]

As far as the Mundorf SIO cap upgrade goes, you can call it a psych-effect for someone wanting that listening "pleasure", but in this case, it is not because all the owners report initially it sounds "harsh" and negative then opens up around 250-300 hours burn-in.

But all of them report it as sounding like total crap initially.

Without measurements, this is useless info

 

[SearchofSub]

Now I would kind of understand if someone were to say to me all this sh1t dont matter anyway because all sources are made in doby digital format now anyway.

Kind of like Microsoft monopolizing computer industry with Windows back in 90's, we need more Apple as in more PCM recorded sources vs digital.


I once watched 3:10 to Yuma in 7.1 PCM mode. Sounded ALOT better than your standard dolby format. (even with your monoprice cables)


Perhaps with seperates and good speaker cables running on PCM (analog) mode for all sources, all my movies and music will sound like 3:10 Yuma.

 

[SearchofSub]

And also, now I kind of see why people say "cables" dont matter using recievers..


You are using pre-compressed modes.. as in "Dolby PLIIZ or THX Cinema" etc. Ofcourse cables wont matter..

But if you are running stereo or PCM, they will make a difference.

 

[slipperybidness]

And also, now I kind of see why people say "cables" dont matter using recievers..


You are using pre-compressed modes.. as in "Dolby PLIIZ or THX Cinema" etc. Ofcourse cables wont matter..

But if you are running stereo or PCM, they will make a difference.

Speaker Wire

 

[slipperybidness]

More power from an amp is always better!

 

[SearchofSub]

This is from the link you posted.

Suppose you have a system with adequately heavy speaker wire but the connections have gone bad over time. Simply removing and cleaning the wires and terminals and reconnecting them can make an audible difference. Incidentally, this is what can happen if the old wire is replaced with a new "miracle" speaker wire. By disturbing the terminals this can "accidentally" improve the contacts when the new wire with its clean surface is installed. A difference can be heard but not because of the new wire. The same change can be heard by simply cleaning the old wire/terminal contacts and reconnecting them.





This is the speaker cable that is $175 pair.



Black Cat interconnects all use our newly-designed RCA connectors, which feature a combination of design elements that make them high performance and yet still quite cost-effective:

The first element is a patent-pending feature that Chris Sommovigo first designed for the very expensive and high-performance Xhadow RCA connectors: a contact pin that has ridges running along its length (the ridging is made by a process called “fluting”). These ridges perform the task of wiping the contact area clean upon insertion into the female RCA jack, and then keeping a relatively high-pressure/low-contact-resistance interface between the pin and receptacle for better signal transfer.

The second element is the use of a set-screw for the signal-wire to be attached to the signal-pin before soldering. This ensures that the two metals between the wire and the pin are in a high-pressure contact (“intimately-stressed contact”) so that solder is only used as a means to create a hermetic seal around the electrical joint, and not at all used as a conductor between the wire and the pin (as is sometimes the case when assemblers aren’t careful about their job).




This is costing me $175but should last a lifetime

 

[Chu Gai]

Unless he dies or goes out of business! Boy, how many times have I seen patent pending but never any patents.

 

[SearchofSub]

I have made my decision and this is NOT going to change.

For 2.1 HT/Music in a 13 x 13 x10 room.

1. Tekton M-Lore w/ Mundorf SIO upgrade. ($907.00)
2. Hsu VTF-2 MK4 ($600)
3. Neo-Morpheus speaker cables (pair) ($200)
4. Blue Jeans HDMI and subwoofer cable's. ($50)
5. 10 x 10 thick rug ($350.00)
3. Kenwood RA-5000 2.1 reciever. ($350)


(AVR specs)

4x HDMI inputs.




"PCM HD Audio stream.
Especially for those who would like to listen to digital music files in High Resolution,
the Decoder of Kenwood’s AVCC *is able to accept and decode several sampling frequencies from the PCM HD Audio stream.
*
For more information.
Key Features
120W x 2ch amplifier for exceptionally brilliant audio quality.
HDMI (Version 1.4a with 3D support and Audio Return Channel 4in/1out)
2.1 virtual surround (Dolby Virtual Speaker) from only two speakers.
High-quality music playback in Pure Audio Mode
Audio Delay (LipSync) automatic via HDMI
Crossover Frequency Adjustment for a better sound phase between speakers and natural sound field.
Aluminium Frontpanel





Thank you for help everyone. You guys have helped me out tremendously.. (especially imcloud,slippery,shadyj and fuzz) Thanks again!

 

[slipperybidness]

I have made my decision and this is NOT going to change.

For 2.1 HT/Music in a 13 x 13 x10 room.

1. Tekton M-Lore w/ Mundorf SIO upgrade. ($907.00)
2. Hsu VTF-2 MK4 ($600)
3. Neo-Morpheus speaker cables (pair) ($200)
4. Blue Jeans HDMI and subwoofer cable's. ($50)
5. 10 x 10 thick rug ($350.00)
3. Kenwood RA-5000 2.1 reciever. ($350)


(AVR specs)

4x HDMI inputs.




"PCM HD Audio stream.
Especially for those who would like to listen to digital music files in High Resolution,
the Decoder of Kenwood’s AVCC *is able to accept and decode several sampling frequencies from the PCM HD Audio stream.
*
For more information.
Key Features
120W x 2ch amplifier for exceptionally brilliant audio quality.
HDMI (Version 1.4a with 3D support and Audio Return Channel 4in/1out)
2.1 virtual surround (Dolby Virtual Speaker) from only two speakers.
High-quality music playback in Pure Audio Mode
Audio Delay (LipSync) automatic via HDMI
Crossover Frequency Adjustment for a better sound phase between speakers and natural sound field.
Aluminium Frontpanel





Thank you for help everyone. You guys have helped me out tremendously.. (especially imcloud,slippery,shadyj and fuzz) Thanks again!

Where are you located? I thought Kenwood got out of the (US) AVR market a long time ago.

 

[Pyrrho]

Aren't ALL digitital sources compressed to an extent? I dont think it will EVER be as good as a plain old analog. (for music ofcourse)

But ofcourse the ones that recorded the actual source are using digital components to record it anyway, and I usually listen to mainstream hip-hop and 90's to now material anyway so I get your point.

No. Not all digital sources are compressed. That is just silly. Analog sources, like LPs, have a much more limited dynamic range than CDs. Consequently, in the past, it was common to dynamically compress recordings to put them on LPs.

Today, quite a lot of popular music is dynamically compressed to try to seem louder when played on radio and other such things, but there is no inherent compression with digital recordings.

You might want to read this:

Boston Audio Society - ABX Testing article

And:

Vinyl vs. CD - A Running Commentary - Parts 1 - 5 - Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity

The CD format is superb. Of course, many people imagine all sorts of nonsense about it, and also complain due to some CDs being poorly mastered. Putting garbage on a good format results in garbage, but that is not the fault of the format; it is because one has put garbage on it. The CD format itself is better than LP ever was.