System Layout Advice

[Mark Daniel]

All,

I am in the process of upgrading and modifying my music system and have arrived at an impasse regarding optimal layout given the gear I have and the connection options available. The decisions outstanding really boil down to the best way to integrate two subwoofers into the system without LFE ports (unless I add them back into the mix). As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words and I have six pictures good for six thousand words! Please take a look at the six configuration options attached to the post as Slide1 - Slide6.jpg and help me decide which of these options is best in your opinion. Any thoughts are appreciated.

 

[TheWarrior]

Option #6 is probably your best bet, assuming you are willing to put in the time to configure your subs. You'll have to add gain to recreate an LFE channel, which means you need to take acoustic measurements. The variability of recordings does not mean you can just listen to a song and tune it, unfortunately.

 

[Mark Daniel]

Warrior,

Thanks for the input. If you don’t mind, I have a couple of follow up questions based on your advice. First, let me say I am questioning your advice, but simply trying to understand why one option is better than another.

1) In going the miniDSP route, should I use the miniDSP, miniDSP HD or miniDSP Balanced?

2) Not sure it makes a difference, but the Mytek input to the Schiit Vidars will be balanced. Should the subs be balanced as well?

3) Is the miniDSP a better crossover than the built in crossovers on the sub amps? The SVS is digital, the HSU is analog.

4) Should one generally avoid using the built in crossover?

5) I assume the use of the Yamaha 801 as a crossover through its existing LFE channel is discouraged due to the crossover being hard set and not configurable on the Yamaha.

Thanks for you help, it is much appreciated.

Mark

 

[TheWarrior]

Warrior,

Thanks for the input. If you don’t mind, I have a couple of follow up questions based on your advice. First, let me say I am questioning your advice, but simply trying to understand why one option is better than another.

1) In going the miniDSP route, should I use the miniDSP, miniDSP HD or miniDSP Balanced?

2) Not sure it makes a difference, but the Mytek input to the Schiit Vidars will be balanced. Should the subs be balanced as well?

3) Is the miniDSP a better crossover than the built in crossovers on the sub amps? The SVS is digital, the HSU is analog.

4) Should one generally avoid using the built in crossover?

5) I assume the use of the Yamaha 801 as a crossover through its existing LFE channel is discouraged due to the crossover being hard set and not configurable on the Yamaha.

Thanks for you help, it is much appreciated.

Mark

1) mDSP or mDSP HD if you have think you might need an optical connection in the future - but you already have a fancy DAC for that. Balanced is intended for car audio.

2) Assuming your sub cables are not 50' long, whichever is convenient for you will be fine.

3) Depending on connection, it is usually best to have a processor/preamp with built in bass management, but for various other setups, the sub's built in crossovers are just fine. mDSP is not 'plug n play'. REW has an automated room measurement system used with a UMIK or similar mic, but results are all over the map, that can upload to mDSP to automatically set the filter values for the subwoofers. Otherwise you need learn how to use a 2x4 - which extends to your next question:

4) The LFE channel that is mixed in to movie sound tracks, is a dedicated channel that usually provides gain to the low frequency effects being passed through it, you're only passing 2CH Stereo. Your objective with the mDSP is to recreate that absent LFE channel by providing gain through the mDSP.

5) The Yamaha is out due to it's lack of preamp outputs so you can use your dedicated amps. Yes it has a subwoofer out, but because it is not in control of the speakers, you'll still have to take measurements and do work to integrate the subs, so why not save it for another room?

I'm leaving town in a few hours... I'll try to check back this weekend.

 

[Mark Daniel]

Warrior,

Thanks again for the assist. I noticed a typo in my reply, what I meant to say was “I am *NOT* questioning your advice”, but I suspect you interpreted the meaning correctly nonetheless.

I probably should have said up front that this setup is for music only, I have a completely different setup for Home Theatre. So, I don’t know if that impacts the LFE discussion as I don’t know if music is actually mixed with an LFE channel or is only 2 channel stereo? No movies will be playing through this setup.

As for the Yamaha, I will likely just give it to my son along with a pair of Polk RTI-A7’s and a HSU VTF-1 Mk2 I have lying around in “spare parts inventory” to seed his first real hi-fi system.

So it sounds like the miniDSP is the way to go and since the Brooklyn can output through the XLR and RCA outputs simultaneously, I should be able to run the balanced outputs directly to the Vidars and avoid having the miniDSP doing any further signal processing on anything but the “LFE channel” I am creating for the subs. Is my thinking accurate?

Or since this is a Music only setup, would this be one of those scenarios you mentioned above in which the sub internal crossover would be just fine?

Thanks and have a safe trip!

Mark

 

[TheWarrior]

Warrior,

Thanks again for the assist. I noticed a typo in my reply, what I meant to say was “I am *NOT* questioning your advice”, but I suspect you interpreted the meaning correctly nonetheless.

I probably should have said up front that this setup is for music only, I have a completely different setup for Home Theatre. So, I don’t know if that impacts the LFE discussion as I don’t know if music is actually mixed with an LFE channel or is only 2 channel stereo? No movies will be playing through this setup.

As for the Yamaha, I will likely just give it to my son along with a pair of Polk RTI-A7’s and a HSU VTF-1 Mk2 I have lying around in “spare parts inventory” to seed his first real hi-fi system.

So it sounds like the miniDSP is the way to go and since the Brooklyn can output through the XLR and RCA outputs simultaneously, I should be able to run the balanced outputs directly to the Vidars and avoid having the miniDSP doing any further signal processing on anything but the “LFE channel” I am creating for the subs. Is my thinking accurate?

Or since this is a Music only setup, would this be one of those scenarios you mentioned above in which the sub internal crossover would be just fine?

Thanks and have a safe trip!

Mark

Thanks Mark.

I’d say to start, use the xover on the subs themselves. 80 hz is a good starting point. mDSP gets complicated quick, I’d save it for if you can’t get the results you’re looking for with just the subs.

Move the subs around, ‘positional EQ’ is about moving your pressure sources so they may better interact with your room. At bass frequencies the room is firmly in control of what you will hear, when AND where. To go further, you will need to take acoustic measurements.

All speakers are pressure sources, but when dealing with bass frequencies, the wavelengths are larger than the boundaries of your room. This results in high and low pressure areas that you can hear as you walk around the room. The key to tuning subs is to place enough them around so that all seats hear the same sounds, at the same time.

-Alex