William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Samurai
Ratings
1,550 5 1
#21
Fwiw most of us bump the sub channel by as much as 5db(some even higher).
I had a feeling you might not be super impressed with sealed as they just don’t perform like ported.
Definitely give the trim level a bump in the Marantz and see if you like it better.
 
R

ryanosaur

Audioholic Chief
Ratings
449
#22
Just out of curiosity, how do you have your speakers set? Large or small? Did you adjust your crossovers?
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Ninja
Ratings
2,563 6 2
#23
Fwiw most of us bump the sub channel by as much as 5db(some even higher).
I had a feeling you might not be super impressed with sealed as they just don’t perform like ported.
Definitely give the trim level a bump in the Marantz and see if you like it better.
Two SB16s in a medium-sized room and you think the problem is that the subs aren't ported? Gene should consider a special website called bassaholics.com, for those of you who are particularly obsessed.

This is almost certainly a set-up problem. Two SB16s should easily be capable of peaks well over 105db@20Hz in that room, perhaps a few decibels more.
 
M

MTGOAT

Enthusiast
#24
Just out of curiosity, how do you have your speakers set? Large or small? Did you adjust your crossovers?
All speakers set to small. Crossovers on the ESLs are 40, center is 80 surrounds are 150.

I have been playing with levels. Trying to not go overboard on the receiver side. I get confused when I look at channel levels it actually says 0 for the subs. But when you look at the Audyssey settings it said -8. LPF for LFE is set to 80hz. Should that be higher? I had to bump that to 120hz for my smaller dynamo 1000 to get more out of content.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
4,514 18 37
#25
All speakers set to small. Crossovers on the ESLs are 40, center is 80 surrounds are 150.

I have been playing with levels. Trying to not go overboard on the receiver side. I get confused when I look at channel levels it actually says 0 for the subs. But when you look at the Audyssey settings it said -8. LPF for LFE is set to 80hz. Should that be higher? I had to bump that to 120hz for my smaller dynamo 1000 to get more out of content.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
The LPF of LFE only affects LFE channel content, which normally is up to 120 hz which is the normal setting.

Not sure about seeing two different sub levels...how are you particularly looking at each of these two different level settings?
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Samurai
Ratings
1,550 5 1
#26
Two SB16s in a medium-sized room and you think the problem is that the subs aren't ported? Gene should consider a special website called bassaholics.com, for those of you who are particularly obsessed.

This is almost certainly a set-up problem. Two SB16s should easily be capable of peaks well over 105db@20Hz in that room, perhaps a few decibels more.
Lol! Obsessed? Me! No...
I would think that you’re probably right however people’s expectations are different. Also if he’s on concrete which it looks like, bass is different. Sealed subs in my room(concrete vaulted, open etc) are not very effective. I know it can take as many as 4 sealed to equal a ported suns output especially around port tune which is why if he’s focused on movies(iirc) ported would be(for me) the easy choice. Maybe I just missed it...still working on coffee!
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Samurai
Ratings
1,550 5 1
#27
All speakers set to small. Crossovers on the ESLs are 40, center is 80 surrounds are 150.

I have been playing with levels. Trying to not go overboard on the receiver side. I get confused when I look at channel levels it actually says 0 for the subs. But when you look at the Audyssey settings it said -8. LPF for LFE is set to 80hz. Should that be higher? I had to bump that to 120hz for my smaller dynamo 1000 to get more out of content.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
HD beat me to the lpf setting. Should be left at 120. This is for the .1(lfe) content present only on movie tracks. Try moving the XO up to 80 or 100 and see. I’m surprised the esl’s got set to 40. Maybe I underestimate...
I think a higher xo will help.
 
M

MTGOAT

Enthusiast
#28
The LPF of LFE only affects LFE channel content, which normally is up to 120 hz which is the normal setting.

Not sure about seeing two different sub levels...how are you particularly looking at each of these two different level settings?
Option, channel level adjustments. There it is set to 0 for subs. When Audyssey finished they were set to -8 I believe.

Appreciate the support but last thing I want to do is tie up anyone's time on my lack of understanding so if I am missing the boat just let me know and I'll do more reading :)

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Ninja
Ratings
2,563 6 2
#29
Option, channel level adjustments. There it is set to 0 for subs. When Audyssey finished they were set to -8 I believe,
I think the software-based approaches like Audessey are evil. For the few people I've helped with HT systems, I always think the "small" settings are worse unless you have stand-mounted L-R speakers. For as much as you've invested, I would spend another $300 on OmniMic, set everything to large, measure the system at your listening seat without the subs, and use the SB16 equalization to augment and fill-in where the L-R speakers are deficient or suffering from suck-outs from their placements, which is probably just below about 50Hz. For music systems you might want more equalization up to 100Hz or more, but I think that's probably a waste of time for HT.

Or you can continue fighting with Audessey...
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
4,514 18 37
#30
Option, channel level adjustments. There it is set to 0 for subs. When Audyssey finished they were set to -8 I believe.

Appreciate the support but last thing I want to do is tie up anyone's time on my lack of understanding so if I am missing the boat just let me know and I'll do more reading :)

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
You can go into speaker manual setup and see each channel level set by Audyssey at any time on most Audyssey avrs I know of. The other may simply be a quick menu just to temporarily change level that goes away when you end that current session by turning the unit off?
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Ninja
Ratings
2,563 6 2
#31
I think the software-based approaches like Audessey are evil. For the few people I've helped with HT systems, I always think the "small" settings are worse unless you have stand-mounted L-R speakers. For as much as you've invested, I would spend another $300 on OmniMic, set everything to large, measure the system at your listening seat without the subs, and use the SB16 equalization to augment and fill-in where the L-R speakers are deficient or suffering from suck-outs from their placements, which is probably just below about 50Hz. For music systems you might want more equalization up to 100Hz or more, but I think that's probably a waste of time for HT.

Or you can continue fighting with Audessey...
And I forgot to mention specifically, but you probably got the hint, disable Audessey...
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Ratings
3,967 32 15
#32
The SB16-Ultras should be very capable in that space. My guess is that Audyssey set the sub level too low for the OP's liking. I would just raise the subwoofer output by a few dB to see if that will satiate the OP's craving for bass. I would also consider just turning off Audyssey.

Another possible culprit is if the subs are not in phase, or if the room is getting some heavy cancellation issues.. Make sure the subs have identical phase settings. Might also want to get a USB mic to see what is going on with the room response.
 
M

MTGOAT

Enthusiast
#33
The SB16-Ultras should be very capable in that space. My guess is that Audyssey set the sub level too low for the OP's liking. I would just raise the subwoofer output by a few dB to see if that will satiate the OP's craving for bass. I would also consider just turning off Audyssey.

Another possible culprit is if the subs are not in phase, or if the room is getting some heavy cancellation issues.. Make sure the subs have identical phase settings. Might also want to get a USB mic to see what is going on with the room response.
Thanks. Ordering the mic from some other previous suggestions so I can have a better understanding

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 
C

ctsv510

Enthusiast
Ratings
2
#34
I recently returned 2 SB16s for 2 PB16s in my 5000 cubic foot room and my wife immediately noticed the difference with a huge smile on her face! The tactile response made a major difference but I was also looking for room shaking bass and have good spots for these behemoths. The SB16s were good but left me feeling like something was missing.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Ninja
Ratings
2,563 6 2
#35
I recently returned 2 SB16s for 2 PB16s in my 5000 cubic foot room and my wife immediately noticed the difference with a huge smile on her face! The tactile response made a major difference but I was also looking for room shaking bass and have good spots for these behemoths. The SB16s were good but left me feeling like something was missing.
Just out of curiosity, what do you typically watch/listen to that has room-shaking bass in it? Action movies?
 
M

MTGOAT

Enthusiast
#37
Been playing around with things for a few days. I can get the subs hitting so hard that it feels like the floor is undulating beneath me during explosions in Dunkirk.

Still playing with crossover because there is a lot of unnecessary bass drone from general audio overhead during scenes (dramatic music build up and things like that) moving the crossover back to 40hz on my ESL towers helps. What I am currently trying to clean up is when ships are sinking or when there is a scene in one of the planes there is just an abundance of that background bass drone and it is extremely annoying. Best way I can discribe it is a drone.

When Subs are set a -10db and the Marantz is set to -5db I get the pounding explosions I'm looking for but there is that drone. When subs are set to -15db and Marantz to -5db I lose some of the drone but I then lose the punch as well.

I did find leaving dynamic eq on and dynamic volume set to light really wakes things up. Actually I have always found running Light for dynamic volume is best. Personal preference perhaps.

All I can really say right now is what a difference these two are compared to my single Dynamo 1000. I never had a clue how much I have been missing.

Will continue to tweek things here and there and report back as I fine tune things incase anyone is curious.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Warlord
Ratings
4,614 22 4
#38
I recently returned 2 SB16s for 2 PB16s and my wife immediately noticed the difference with a huge smile on her face!
Congratulations for being the first-ever guy to have their wife smile when they swapped smaller sealed subs for the larger ported.

Wait, did you send this post through some sort of Bizzarro-world portal?
 

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