SVS Ultras with monoprice subs vs Def Tech BP9080X Bipolar towers & CS-9080 with SR9040 surrounds

[Aman]

Hi All,

I am back to the audioholics fourm, the place that helped me set up, which I now consider my best home theater ever. One of my neighbors is setting up his man cave that is 15 by 21 ft.
He is looking to go with the def tech BP9080X Bipolar towers & CS-9080 with SR9040 surrounds without subs(The def techs are expensive). I shared with him that SVS ultras(LCR) with a couple of dedicated monoprice 12" subs may be a better and cheaper option.

I wanted to ask the experts what they feel about this?

Denon avr x4300, Outlaw 7100, 2 psa xv15se subs, 3 KEF CI4100QL, 4 KEF CI200ER, 2 KEF CI160 2L, EPSON 5040UB projector, 135" Elite Screens thin bezel, Acoustic treatment from mixmaster acoustics, Panamax PM4300

 

[ryanosaur]

I''ve never been a fan of the DefTechs. I would recommend the SVS Ultras + Subs all day over those. First, though they claim infrasonic extension, one review showed the -10db on the DT9080s to be ~21Hz, Not 15Hz, or whatever they claim. Though they would probably be ok as full-range towers, they still need an actual subwoofer to really excel in the LFE department. When I auditioned DTs compared to other speakers, I felt the whole sound was off. That was compared to KEF, Martin Logan, and B&W.
I've heard good stuff about the Ultras in general, and I think if your friend is truly interested in a good qualty HT and audio system, he should pursue those. Especially if he enjoys music.
For the subs, Monolith 12s, or PB/PC 2000s. Considering the pricing, he'll see a discount if he buys 5 from SVS, plus will have 45 days to try everything out. Hsu VTF2 is another good option, as would be the VTF3. Unless he has crazy tall ceilings 2ea of any of those subs will handle that room. The VTF3 is a little more powerful... 2 of those would be outstanding.
He could easily add in a center speaker for a matched front 3! Just a thought.
Personally, I think the sound from the SVS should be far superior to that of the DTs. YMMV.

 

[Aman]

I''ve never been a fan of the DefTechs. I would recommend the SVS Ultras + Subs all day over those. First, though they claim infrasonic extension, one review showed the -10db on the DT9080s to be ~21Hz, Not 15Hz, or whatever they claim. Though they would probably be ok as full-range towers, they still need an actual subwoofer to really excel in the LFE department. When I auditioned DTs compared to other speakers, I felt the whole sound was off. That was compared to KEF, Martin Logan, and B&W.
I've heard good stuff about the Ultras in general, and I think if your friend is truly interested in a good qualty HT and audio system, he should pursue those. Especially if he enjoys music.
For the subs, Monolith 12s, or PB/PC 2000s. Considering the pricing, he'll see a discount if he buys 5 from SVS, plus will have 45 days to try everything out. Hsu VTF2 is another good option, as would be the VTF3. Unless he has crazy tall ceilings 2ea of any of those subs will handle that room. The VTF3 is a little more powerful... 2 of those would be outstanding.
He could easily add in a center speaker for a matched front 3! Just a thought.
Personally, I think the sound from the SVS should be far superior to that of the DTs. YMMV.

You are echoing my thoughts Rynosaur!!! would you recommend 2 Ultra bookshelves + center Ultra for LCR over 3 ultra bookshelves? I have seen some folks recommending 3 ultra bookshelves instead.

 

[ryanosaur]

If your friend was considering getting towers, he should get towers for L/R. If his/her tastes are discriminating, they could consider a boookshelf, though I suspect the tru center would be fine.

Is there a particular reason for all bookshelve is SVS as opposed to the DT towers?

 

[Aman]

If your friend was considering getting towers, he should get towers for L/R. If his/her tastes are discriminating, they could consider a boookshelf, though I suspect the tru center would be fine.

Is there a particular reason for all bookshelves is SVS as opposed to the DT towers?

Will share another post with you from when I was coming up with my build to give you some background. The 3 bookshelves will allow for perfect matching.

https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/emotiva-separates-a-700-mc-700-or-denon-avrx4300h-for-a-7-2-setup.108260/page-2#post-1202895

Esentially in a nutshell if one has 2 subs then the value in the towers might not be that great.

 

[ryanosaur]

Can’t rea

Will share another post with you from when I was coming up with my build to give you some background. The 3 bookshelves will allow for perfect matching.

https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/emotiva-separates-a-700-mc-700-or-denon-avrx4300h-for-a-7-2-setup.108260/page-2#post-1202895

Esentially in a nutshell if one has 2 subs then the value in the towers might not be that great.

d that link right now, but I would disagree with that assessment. I would much prefer having 3-way and as close to full range speakers as possible as mains. AND two subs!
Also, all svs speakers are supposed to be tone and timbre matched.

 

[Aman]

Can’t rea

d that link right now, but I would disagree with that assessment. I would much prefer having 3-way and as close to full range speakers as possible as mains. AND two subs!
Also, all svs speakers are supposed to be tone and timbre matched.

Look at the below as well. This is coming from someone that actually had the svs ultras as LCRs and upgraded to L and R to the svs towers and did not see a material enough difference.

https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/emotiva-separates-a-700-mc-700-or-denon-avrx4300h-for-a-7-2-setup.108260/page-2#post-1202954

 

[Pedro Alvarado]

there's also this...

https://www.audioholics.com/surround-sound-reviews/definitive-bp9080x-bp9060-cs9060-dolby-atmos-review

 

[ryanosaur]

Not trying to sell anybody on anything. If you scour hard enough, you'll find somewhere that I said 2-way can be done exceptionally well, and 3-ways can be done poorly. Everybody has their preference, though, and mine is a well executed 3-way.
For me, I would put my money on having towers that are as close to full range as possible with very good mids and highs, as well as having subs, because the more solid LF sources you have in the room, the better your overall bass response will be. My personal opinion after auditioning the DTs, and other speakers, more and less expensive, is that they didn't sound good. Period. I would not want to listen to jazz, orchestral, rock, or hip hop on them. I am a music first guy, Half my life was spent with a sax in my mouth, on stage and off. In my audition, they did not reproduce those sounds in a manner befitting the cost.
Add to that: inaccurate specs, the cost of building amplifiers into the speakers, and Atmos modules which most agree are the least best option for Atmos...
Again... This is me. YMMV.
For the cost of either of those options, I would have spent in the middle for Monitor Audio Silver 500s. Of all the speakers I auditioned, up until I heard the Philharmonics, Those were my favorites, followed by Martin Logan Motion 60XTs. I listened to two different KEF lines, and if not for them causing listening fatigue for me, I would have considered them, too (They both sounded nice, big expansive sound, but something about that Uni-Q driver and my ears didn't get along.)

So yes, can do three bookshelves, 2- towers and a bookshelf or center, 3 towers... Especially when paired with subs!

I would urge you, @Aman, to go listen WITH your friend. If possible. If he hasn't ever auditioned speakers before, you should give him that as a gift: your experience with audio. If he really likes the sound of DTs over anything else, well, at the end of the day: Its going to be his system.
It didn't slip past me that you are looking for a way to steer him away from that choice... Am I right? Consider, By themselves, those ULTRA Bookshelves aren't going to stand up to the DTs, whereas the towers will.

My 2cents.

Cheers!

 

[Pedro Alvarado]

Hi All,

I wanted to ask the experts what they feel about this?

Denon avr x4300, Outlaw 7100, 2 psa xv15se subs, 3 KEF CI4100QL, 4 KEF CI200ER, 2 KEF CI160 2L, EPSON 5040UB projector, 135" Elite Screens thin bezel, Acoustic treatment from mixmaster acoustics, Panamax PM4300

i'll let the experts answer but which question do you want answered?

what to think about him getting the def techs or going a cheaper route like the ultra set?

my guess is that he will go with the big in your face def techs just for the aesthetics. after all it is a mancave.

however, if he likes the sound of the ultras better then there's the answer.

i think the def tech 9 series is too much sizzle and boom with an almost vacant mid. maybe it was the set up.

 

[everettT]

The problem, a big one for me, is if theater bass is what your looking for, your mains with built in subs probably will not be the best location for deeper bass.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think you can get better sound and more-respected speaker systems for $5,000.

But it depends on what the individual is willing to do. There are many variables - buying local vs mail, separate big sub vs internal bass.

If something goes wrong with the internal amps of his speakers, will he know what to do?

Will they still make the right internal amps for his speakers years from now?

But some people still like the idea of not having to use separate subwoofers. And some people don’t need crazy sub bass.

 

[everettT]

Another for HT option is Atlantic Technology
https://shop.atlantictechnology.com/product-category/floorstanding/thx-systems/

 

[Aman]

Not trying to sell anybody on anything. If you scour hard enough, you'll find somewhere that I said 2-way can be done exceptionally well, and 3-ways can be done poorly. Everybody has their preference, though, and mine is a well executed 3-way.
For me, I would put my money on having towers that are as close to full range as possible with very good mids and highs, as well as having subs, because the more solid LF sources you have in the room, the better your overall bass response will be. My personal opinion after auditioning the DTs, and other speakers, more and less expensive, is that they didn't sound good. Period. I would not want to listen to jazz, orchestral, rock, or hip hop on them. I am a music first guy, Half my life was spent with a sax in my mouth, on stage and off. In my audition, they did not reproduce those sounds in a manner befitting the cost.
Add to that: inaccurate specs, the cost of building amplifiers into the speakers, and Atmos modules which most agree are the least best option for Atmos...
Again... This is me. YMMV.
For the cost of either of those options, I would have spent in the middle for Monitor Audio Silver 500s. Of all the speakers I auditioned, up until I heard the Philharmonics, Those were my favorites, followed by Martin Logan Motion 60XTs. I listened to two different KEF lines, and if not for them causing listening fatigue for me, I would have considered them, too (They both sounded nice, big expansive sound, but something about that Uni-Q driver and my ears didn't get along.)

So yes, can do three bookshelves, 2- towers and a bookshelf or center, 3 towers... Especially when paired with subs!

I would urge you, @Aman, to go listen WITH your friend. If possible. If he hasn't ever auditioned speakers before, you should give him that as a gift: your experience with audio. If he really likes the sound of DTs over anything else, well, at the end of the day: Its going to be his system.
It didn't slip past me that you are looking for a way to steer him away from that choice... Am I right? Consider, By themselves, those ULTRA Bookshelves aren't going to stand up to the DTs, whereas the towers will.

My 2cents.

Cheers!

Thanks !

Thats actually the plan. The trouble is to get these options available all at the same place for a demo.

The ultimate goal is to get the best sound possible for the money thats being thrown in and also to asses if bookshelves with dual subs will turn out to be a better option than the DT towers with the inbuilt subs. If I have get towers that are expected to double up as subs and then find out that I need subs too, that to me will be disappointing.

 

[ryanosaur]

Thanks !

Thats actually the plan. The trouble is to get these options available all at the same place for a demo.

The ultimate goal is to get the best sound possible for the money thats being thrown in and also to asses if bookshelves with dual subs will turn out to be a better option than the DT towers with the inbuilt subs. If I have get towers that are expected to double up as subs and then find out that I need subs too, that to me will be disappointing.

The sterophile (?) review is where they benched those DTs at. Like I said, they were -10dB around 21-22Hz. In a cabinet that size, I don’t believe it’s possible to have the quality bass you would expect from a subwoofer..

 

[Aman]

The sterophile (?) review is where they benched those DTs at. Like I said, they were -10dB around 21-22Hz. In a cabinet that size, I don’t believe it’s possible to have the quality bass you would expect from a subwoofer..

Makes sense.

Coming back to one of your earlier points about steering him away from the DTs. I just want whats best for the guy. He is a close friend of mine and I would hate for him to spend this much where he can easily get something better for less. We are looking to go to electronics expo. I auditioned a couple of monitor audio silver towers there and actually ended up buying those for another friend.

 

[ryanosaur]

Unless one of you bites the bullet, your not gonna see those two on display at the same time... Best bet would be to have him order the Ultras and go audition the DTs at BB/Magnolia...
Take some real music, preferably stuff that isn't using amplified instruments... A Small jazz combo with Sax or Trumpet, Piano, Upright Bass, and Drums (I like Dexter Gordon's One Flight Up: trk1, Tanya). Something With Male Vocal (Lou Reed Walk On The Wild Side or Nick Cave and The Bad Seeds Love Letter), Something with Female Vocal Like Norah Jones or Melody Gardot. I personally like to throw in an orchestral piece that has some good dynamic hits... I used a recording Of Igor Stravinsky's Le Sacre Du Printemps/The Rite Of Spring (pts2&3, The Augurs of Spring and Mock Abduction), And then something FUN that you really like and enjoy listening too...
...For that, I used things like Gravediggaz Twelve Jewels (an awesome old-school Rza cut), the Gorillaz 19/2000 [Jungle Fresh] from Laika Come Home, Lou Reed Egg Cream or Hooky Wooky or Paranoia Key Of E, and Stanton Moore's Blues For Ben from All Kooked Out.
Don't use these unless you know them well... pick your own recordings with the goal being to expose the flaws that a speaker might have. It's recommended that you have four cuts for really critiquing the speakers... I add the fun one to test them out on something else important to me (like Lou Reed's distorted guitar lines where its more about the tone and timbre of his playing than just distortion; hearing Rza's voice over a bass line, or a N.O. style modern funk-jazz cut with dense instrumentation including a Tuba-as-bass chugging along, and soloing!).

Anyway: I'm sure you get the idea. End of the day, for me, the DTs couldn't keep up with any other speaker in the room: the flaws in sound were too prevalent to look past. Where they will excel, probably, is going all in on a DT system for strictly HT... but... *shrugs

Best wishes on your quest!

 

[ryanosaur]

I auditioned a couple of monitor audio silver towers there and actually ended up buying those for another friend.

I'd love to hear your overall impressions of those, please! As I said, I really liked them in my audition. And how does your friend enjoy them?

 

[Aman]

I'd love to hear your overall impressions of those, please! As I said, I really liked them in my audition. And how does your friend enjoy them?

He loves them. He has only 2 speakers and driving those with a Denon x3400h avr. He uses those for 99% of the time for music. Very clean rich sound. They are lying in an unfinished basement. There is a rug in front and a couch that seats 2. Minimalistic yet super.

 

[Aman]

I'd love to hear your overall impressions of those, please! As I said, I really liked them in my audition. And how does your friend enjoy them?

Unless one of you bites the bullet, your not gonna see those two on display at the same time... Best bet would be to have him order the Ultras and go audition the DTs at BB/Magnolia...
Take some real music, preferably stuff that isn't using amplified instruments... A Small jazz combo with Sax or Trumpet, Piano, Upright Bass, and Drums (I like Dexter Gordon's One Flight Up: trk1, Tanya). Something With Male Vocal (Lou Reed Walk On The Wild Side or Nick Cave and The Bad Seeds Love Letter), Something with Female Vocal Like Norah Jones or Melody Gardot. I personally like to throw in an orchestral piece that has some good dynamic hits... I used a recording Of Igor Stravinsky's Le Sacre Du Printemps/The Rite Of Spring (pts2&3, The Augurs of Spring and Mock Abduction), And then something FUN that you really like and enjoy listening too...
...For that, I used things like Gravediggaz Twelve Jewels (an awesome old-school Rza cut), the Gorillaz 19/2000 [Jungle Fresh] from Laika Come Home, Lou Reed Egg Cream or Hooky Wooky or Paranoia Key Of E, and Stanton Moore's Blues For Ben from All Kooked Out.
Don't use these unless you know them well... pick your own recordings with the goal being to expose the flaws that a speaker might have. It's recommended that you have four cuts for really critiquing the speakers... I add the fun one to test them out on something else important to me (like Lou Reed's distorted guitar lines where its more about the tone and timbre of his playing than just distortion; hearing Rza's voice over a bass line, or a N.O. style modern funk-jazz cut with dense instrumentation including a Tuba-as-bass chugging along, and soloing!).

Anyway: I'm sure you get the idea. End of the day, for me, the DTs couldn't keep up with any other speaker in the room: the flaws in sound were too prevalent to look past. Where they will excel, probably, is going all in on a DT system for strictly HT... but... *shrugs

Best wishes on your quest!

I guess I was going to use Tidal as it has FLAC streams. Not true high res but significantly up than most.