SVS Translation Please

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chpwaman

Audioholic Intern
First off, I want to say that SVS has been very quick and helpful with their answers to my questions via email...I wanted to post their last response here and get some feedback from all of you (who know a lot more about this stuff than I do). Note: My room is 18x14 with 8.5 foot ceilings and will be used for about 75/25 HT/Music. I also told SVS that for the most part I would probably not be listening to this at house shaking levels, but I certainly would want to be able to truely experience a movie when I desired.

In your size room, here is what would be required for various playback levels:

Moderately Loud To Loud:

20-39PCi or PB12-NSD (equal performers)

Loud To Very Loud:

20-39PC-Plus or PB12-Plus (equal performers)

PB12-NSD/2

Very Loud to Professional Cinema (IMAX) Dolby Reference Level*:

PB12-Plus/2

dual PB12-NSD or dual 20-39PCi (equal performers)

dual 20-39PC-Plus or dual PB12-Plus (equal performers)



*Professional commercial cinemas (like an IMAX) play soundtracks at Dolby Reference Level, which requires clean/uncompressed bass peaks (not continuous levels) of ~117 dB at the listening position.

In comparing the PB12-Plus to the NSD/2:

The native extension of the PB12-Plus is 20 Hz with all three 3" ports open. In order to obtain 20 Hz extension from the NSD/2, you need to plug a port, leaving you with dual 3" ports open.

At 18-23 Hz (very deep), the PB12-Plus and the PB12-NSD/2 will actually have similar output capabilities (with the Plus being a bit higher, actually). Above 23 Hz, the NSD/2 will start to assert a progressively larger output advantage, worth about 50% (3.5 dB) more output than the PB12-Plus over the more common bass regions.

The PB12-Plus opens up the possibility of nicer finish options (for more $$), along with a PEQ control. The PEQ is a single-band parametric equalizer with three controls (frequency, cut, bandwidth) that allows the user to reduce the severity of a room-induced peak in the frequency response.

The PB12-NSD/2 is larger and heavier than the PB12-Plus, and only comes in textured black, and there is no PEQ option.

What I think would be best for your room and budget:

I think true Dolby Reference Level is a bit out of reach for your $1,000 budget. The PB12-NSD/2 in its native 25 Hz tune with all three 3" ports open and dual NSD woofers and 600 watts of power would come the closest over the most common bass regions. Tuned to 20 Hz (with a port plugged), it's still your strongest option at under $1,000, even while acknowledging but the PB12-Plus actually performs about the same or slightly better at the very deepest (18-23 Hz) frequencies due to its native 20 Hz tune with all three ports open.

If you want max SPL capability over the common bass regions, get the NSD/2. If you want extremely good efficiency and output at extremely deep frequencies, and can accept 3-4 dB less headroom over the mid-bass regions, then get the PB12-Plus along with the possibility of nicer finish options and the PEQ and a smaller cabinet.

If you were going to get the textured black on the PB12-Plus (forgoing the PEQ and nicer finish options), then the overall nod then swings to the NSD/2; you can't buy more overall performance for less than $1,000 delivered to your doorstep.
If I am understanding SVS correctly it seems like they are steering me toward the NSD/2, basically saying that these two subs will perform almost identically, with the exception of the Plus's ability to peform at the lowest frequencies. In the end I want a sub that will be with me for a long time (not leave me wanting more) and I want one that will perform very well across the board, not just in some areas. I was under the impression that the PB12-Plus had a better driver and therefore would be a better sub. In the end, I really don't know what 3-4db less headroom over the mid-bass regions means. And, I'm not really looking at the PB12-Plus for any of their finish options, I would stick with basic black...which is another reason SVS steers me toward the NSD/2. Any thoughts or feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
No, they are saying the NSD/2 will perform better above 23Hz by a noticable amount and the Plus will do better below that, but above 23Hz, that difference may not mean as much, and it depends on what you are after. The Plus DOES have a better driver, but it still won't be able to produce the same SPL as TWO NSD drivers.

What they seem to be saying is you will likely be better served by the NSD/2. I have heard the PB-12 and the 20-39Plus (equivalent of PB-12Plus in 20Hz tune) and the Plus is a very impressive animal. If size and weight aren't an issue, I'd go with the NSD/2.
 
C

chpwaman

Audioholic Intern
Generally speaking with HT and Music, are there many times when a sub will need to perform below 23Hz?
 
mike c

mike c

Audioholic Warlord
if your room doesn't open to anywhere else (2200 cu.ft.)
I'd get the pb12 plus/pc20-39plus

thats a pretty small room any of those subwoofers will be sufficient
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
chpwaman said:
Generally speaking with HT and Music, are there many times when a sub will need to perform below 23Hz?
Ummmmm....apparently you haven't experienced a sub that can hit low 20s recently. :eek: A sub that has authority in the low 20s adds a whole new dimension to movies, and though some use that argument for music, I find that music definitely benefits from a solid sub just as much. :cool: Note too that the NSD/2 doesn't simply lack bass below 23Hz, it merely doesn't have the same kind of bass at the bottom. The 20-39 Plus I heard easily hit 100dB at 21Hz when we took readings.

Seriously though, any of those subs will be plenty for a room that size.
 
C

chpwaman

Audioholic Intern
There is an opening behind the listening position (about 6 foot wide entrance) into another room about 12x20. With this in mind, do you think the NSD/2 would be a better option?
 
mike c

mike c

Audioholic Warlord
did you include that information when you asked SVS?

how much is your budget?
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
Uuuhhgg.. this talk of SVS and cinema grade bass makes me drool.:D
 
C

chpwaman

Audioholic Intern
did you include that information when you asked SVS?
I'll have to go back and check the email...I know I did when I inquired at HSU and they recommended the VFT3-MK3 sub for this room.

I have not heard bass like what is being described below 20Hz...I am coming from a HTIB Sony set-up and am pretty much jumping light years ahead with the next system.
 
mike c

mike c

Audioholic Warlord
sony HTIB.

light years indeed. (you'll $hit your pants to say the least)

I would still recommend the PB12 plus/PC plus 20-39, just buy another one if it's still not enough. it's better to have the higher end model, to be a bit futureproof. if you get stuck with the low end model, and want to upgrade, you'd have to sell the old one and lose some money.
 
C

chpwaman

Audioholic Intern
I would still recommend the PB12 plus/PC plus 20-39, just buy another one if it's still not enough. it's better to have the higher end model, to be a bit futureproof. if you get stuck with the low end model, and want to upgrade, you'd have to sell the old one and lose some money.
Quite honestly that was why I was thinking about thee PB12 Plus in the first place (future proof), but SVS seemed to be steering me to the NSD/2...which I'm sure they thought was the best based on the info I gave them. Do you have any input as to how the PB12 compares to any of the HSU lines?

Thanks.
 
mike c

mike c

Audioholic Warlord
I have zero experience with HSU. i have however listened to the 20-39 in a warehouse size room. :) (sonic boom audio canada)
 
Buckeyefan 1

Buckeyefan 1

Audioholic Ninja
chpwaman said:
I'll have to go back and check the email...I know I did when I inquired at HSU and they recommended the VFT3-MK3 sub for this room.

I have not heard bass like what is being described below 20Hz...I am coming from a HTIB Sony set-up and am pretty much jumping light years ahead with the next system.
The VTF3-MK3 is one of the highest rated 12" drivers on the market today. I would highly consider that sub if it is within your budget.

The NSD/2 for movies IMHO would trump the PB12 Plus - to me there is no substitute for dual drivers. It's an amazing experience. If you're ever near NE Ohio, stop in SVS and see for yourself.
 
Davemcc

Davemcc

Audioholic Spartan
I have no factual information to convey, but I'll tell you what I did and why. I ordered the PB12-plus. I have a small room and I don't listen very loud very often. (It scares the cats). However, I just want to hear and feel bass down to 16hz. I'm not sure if I've ever experienced full range dynamics, but I am sure that I want to, regularly. My SVS hasn't arrived yet, but I'm trying to be patient.
 
C

chpwaman

Audioholic Intern
I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on that sub in your room once it arrives.
 
Davemcc

Davemcc

Audioholic Spartan
I'm sure the difference will be dramatic. I'm replacing a Bose 3-2-1.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
However, I just want to hear and feel bass down to 16hz. I'm not sure if I've ever experienced full range dynamics, but I am sure that I want to, regularly.
Well most mortals can't hear below 20Hz and very little music/movie content goes below 20Hz but what's important is the sub will play very well down to 20Hz, MUCH BETTER than your Bose 321.
 
Davemcc

Davemcc

Audioholic Spartan
gene said:
Well most mortals can't hear below 20Hz and very little music/movie content goes below 20Hz but what's important is the sub will play very well down to 20Hz, MUCH BETTER than your Bose 321.
Yup, I'll hear as low as I can, feel the rest and scare the cats. I can't wait.

Oh, and I will buy one of those pipe organ discs I've been reading about to test it out. My father used to be a church organist.
 
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