SVS SBS-01 Speaker System Review

[silversurfer]

That's fair to say, but here is a $1700 receiver:
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=874&page_number=3

I will try to dig up a $400 receiver later.

 

[Tom Vodhanel]

Hi all,

If you understand the relationship between amp power and speaker output...no one should have any concerns about matching our new SBS-01 speakers with ANY budget surround receiver. We've had these speakers matched up with receivers and processor/amp combos that range from $100 to $10,000+ and all worked fine.

85dB sensitivity might seem low...but think about it for a second. Double the amp power = 3dB increase. so with only about 30w per channel...you can have all 5(or 7) speakers singing at 100dB. The sensitivity "spec" used to be very important when amp power was very expensive. These days, when you can get 5-7 channels >50w of amp for $100-150...it is barely worth considering. If you understand the relationship between main speakers and the subwoofer in modern 5.1 mixes, it would be clear that these speakers are extremely well matched to the PB10.

If you have a two watt per channel tube amp...no, these speakers won't be a very good match for them..

Tom V.
SVS

 

[MacManNM]

That's fair to say, but here is a $1700 receiver:
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=874&page_number=3

I will try to dig up a $400 receiver later.

Let's try to keep it on track here. This gets back to the "All Channels Driven" crap and I'm not going there.

Most receivers will drive these speakers fine in a room that is proportional to the size of these speakers. Bottom line, these are not towers in a 2 ch setup, their sensitivity isn't going to affect much, one way or another.

 

[Tom Vodhanel]

>>>Let's try to keep it on track here. This gets back to the "All Channels Driven" crap and I'm not going there.<<<


Exactly. We have inexpensive(<$200 MSRP) receivers on hand from Sony, Yamaha, and others. And, we have high power/current amps matched with Meridan and Lexicon processors. As long as you aren't trying to match these speakers to a receiver that puts out less than 25-30w per channel...they will work fine.

These speakers are PERFECTLY matched to the PB10 and will work very well (in all but the largest of rooms) up to 3-9dB below reference level. If you are looking for reference levels in a huge room...these aren't the speakers for you---nor is the PB10 the subwoofer for you. I don't know why this seems so confusing for a certain individual in this thread?

Tom V.
SVS

 

[gene]

RE: All Channels Driven

That's fair to say, but here is a $1700 receiver:
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/art...&page_number=3

I will try to dig up a $400 receiver later.

Looks like a very dynamic amp section which is great for a receiver in this price range.

I thought we cleared this topic up months ago but I see it still lingers on:

Please see our sticky thread on : All Channels Driven Test

Now that I am in our new Audioholics Showcase home I will start writing more about power fallacies, especially on the tests most publications use, once I get my lab all situated.

85dB sensitivity isn't untypical of a bookshelf speaker like the SVS. I am guessing they padded the tweeter down to better match the mid woofer. Most bookshelf speakers of this size using conventional dome tweeters fall between 85-89 dB sensitivity at 1 watt/meter. Even my reference bookshelf speakers with a 6 1/2" driver and bigger box are about 86dB.

 

[silversurfer]

Agree with all of the above.

But how will the speakers compare when driven with $200 vs $400 vs $1000 receivers?

Would you guys think it is fair to say that lower efficient speakers benefit more from quality amplification?

 

[silversurfer]

I don't know why this seems so confusing for a certain individual in this thread?

I believe that is directed at me. I did say that the speakers look to be well matched to the PB10ISD.

You are the manufacturer, so lets not snipe.

 

[Tex-amp]

Gene-

I read somewhere recently that lower efficiency ratings are sometimes used to improve the response graph. Any truth to that?

And why do some some use -/+3dB to mean it stays with-in a 3dB variation window while other use it as varying up and down 3dB from a point for a total 6 dB variation window?

 

[gene]

But how will the speakers compare when driven with $200 vs $400 vs $1000 receivers?

Would you guys think it is fair to say that lower efficient speakers benefit more from quality amplification?

Yes assuming your amp clips from being overdriven. A higher end receiver / amplifier not only delivers more power, but also more usable power since it usually has lower output impedance and minimizes frequency response variation when driving reactive loads.

Regardless; you should apply bass management (80Hz or so) to these receivers and use 1 or 2 PB-10's in conjunction.

 

[silversurfer]

Yes assuming your amp clips from being overdriven. A higher end receiver / amplifier not only delivers more power, but also more usable power since it usually has lower output impedance and minimizes frequency response variation when driving reactive loads.

Regardless; you should apply bass management (80Hz or so) to these receivers and use 1 or 2 PB-10's in conjunction.

OK, we are on the same page there then.

As for the crossover point, the Secrets review seemed to imply crossing possibly higher than the 80hz, but definitely not lower.

 

[gene]

I read somewhere recently that lower efficiency ratings are sometimes used to improve the response graph. Any truth to that?

And why do some some use -/+3dB to mean it stays with-in a 3dB variation window while other use it as varying up and down 3dB from a point for a total 6 dB variation window?

There are alot of factors regarding efficiency of a loudspeaker system which any compentent designer could likely explain better than myself.

Yes it is typical for a loudspeaker company to pad down the response of a tweeter in order for it to be better matched with the midrange. In the case of my new reference speakers, the designer had to pad down the midrange/tweeter combo to match the sensitivity of the integrated subwoofers.

IMO +-3dB is a lame spec and provides too much wiggle room for a manufacturer to pad their measurements or boast an unrealistically smoothed response curve. I personally like to see unsmoothed measurements either at 1 meter or a nearfield splice, on a 40-60dB scale and look at how linear the speakers are +- 1.5dB on axis as well as the family of curves off axis to show polar response. I also like to see how the speaker performs at various power levels, a test of dynamic compression and bandwidth linearity, which you rarely see in loudspeakers but will start seeing in our reviews headed up by myself and Mark Sanfilipo.

 

[silversurfer]

Those measurements would be great to see!

 

[shokhead]

I believe that is directed at me. I did say that the speakers look to be well matched to the PB10ISD.

You are the manufacturer, so lets not snipe.

LMAO-----------

 

[silversurfer]

LMAO-----------

-------

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Hi all,

If you understand the relationship between amp power and speaker output...no one should have any concerns about matching our new SBS-01 speakers with ANY budget surround receiver. We've had these speakers matched up with receivers and processor/amp combos that range from $100 to $10,000+ and all worked fine.

85dB sensitivity might seem low...but think about it for a second. Double the amp power = 3dB increase. so with only about 30w per channel...you can have all 5(or 7) speakers singing at 100dB. The sensitivity "spec" used to be very important when amp power was very expensive. These days, when you can get 5-7 channels >50w of amp for $100-150...it is barely worth considering. If you understand the relationship between main speakers and the subwoofer in modern 5.1 mixes, it would be clear that these speakers are extremely well matched to the PB10.

If you have a two watt per channel tube amp...no, these speakers won't be a very good match for them..

Tom V.
SVS

Tom,

Thanks for the response. So did these speakers just work out to 85dB based on the woofer/tweeter relationship, or could they have been designed with the same sq at a higher dB rating?

I ask solely as a speaker design question (for all speakers) - what IYHO are the main reasons manufacturers differ dB ratings?

 

[mulester7]

.....guys, Tom's main problem is, he's only got one mini-barn in his theater, and SVS done quit makin' 'em......

....Tom, I'll sell you one of mine for the top half of Illinois, haha.....

 

[Tom Vodhanel]

>>>Tom,

Thanks for the response. So did these speakers just work out to 85dB based on the woofer/tweeter relationship, or could they have been designed with the same sq at a higher dB rating?

I ask solely as a speaker design question (for all speakers) - what IYHO are the main reasons manufacturers differ dB ratings?<<<


Hi Buckeyefan (nice game yesterday!)

Well, the sensitivity of a speaker in this context will largely be determined by the design of the drivers in the speaker, the "load" you want the speaker to represent to the amp, the size of the enclosure, and the type of enclosure.

There are so many design considerations involved with speaker design (and subwoofer design to a slightly lesser degree) that it is impossible to point to any specific design decision and say "this is always best...and everyone will always prefer this". For example, if the highest sensitivity sounded "best" to everyone...we would all own huge horn speakers.. Their really is no "best"...just what we prefer. Floyd Toole has done a LOT of research that shows how good objective measurements tend to correlate into good subjective impressions. But in the end, you should always try to audition speakers for yourself---and in your own listening room whenever possible. Room acoustics can alter the "sound" of a speaker drastically.

Tom V.
SVS

 

[Tom Vodhanel]

>>>guys, Tom's main problem is, he's only got one mini-barn in his theater, and SVS done quit makin' 'em......

....Tom, I'll sell you one of mine for the top half of Illinois, haha....<<<

Hi Mule!

I actually have a pair of B4s..

I have an older B12-plus/4 with a new PB12-plus/4 stacked on it. This way I can do direct comparisons between the original passive model (powered by a K1) and our upcoming powered model which has a >1000w amp.

I haven't used either for a couple of weeks though. Been too busy testing different variations of our upcoming small cube, and another new design that will make a lot of "waves" in the next few months..

Tom V.
SVS

 

[silversurfer]

Been too busy testing different variations of our upcoming small cube, and another new design that will make a lot of "waves" in the next few months..

Oooh! sealed? nice veneer finishes? Can you say any more? Will you show a proto at CES?

 

[Sheep]

>>>guys, Tom's main problem is, he's only got one mini-barn in his theater, and SVS done quit makin' 'em......

....Tom, I'll sell you one of mine for the top half of Illinois, haha....<<<

Hi Mule!

I actually have a pair of B4s..

I have an older B12-plus/4 with a new PB12-plus/4 stacked on it. This way I can do direct comparisons between the original passive model (powered by a K1) and our upcoming powered model which has a >1000w amp.

I haven't used either for a couple of weeks though. Been too busy testing different variations of our upcoming small cube, and another new design that will make a lot of "waves" in the next few months..

Tom V.
SVS

Waves, waves... OH I GOT IT, your making a boat! Cool! A toaster, now a boat..IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE!

Cube eh? Hm, Last cube subwoofer I had blew up on an 18Hz sine wave...hey! theres those waves again!

SheepStar