SVS PB13-Ultra Subwoofer Review

Warpdrv

Warpdrv

Audioholic Ninja
Josh, great job on the review - I will say that this is certainly the most in depth and comprehensive review I have seen to date of any subwoofer, and I'm glad Audioholics chose you to do this... I certainly hope there are many more of these to come. Especially with it being the updated Ultra13, its nice to see that they haven't lost the edge in performance, build quality - but most of all that your extremely over the top measurements match those that have been fawned over for years.

Thumbs up for all the amazing time consuming measurement layover graphs such as this one...

SVS PB13-Ultra: Effect of Various PEQ settings on Response


As was said elsewhere, I liked it so much - I will quote it here again...

FOH states
You're quickly becoming the Gold Standard of subwoofer testing.
BRAVO my friend, I had suggested to gene awhile ago that Audioholics work with you, and I'm truly glad it has panned out.
 
Ricci

Ricci

Bassaholic
Don't worry Josh. Paradigm saw your SVS review and is planning on sending you their Sub2. That should be plenty big and heavy for ya :D
230lbs...Yay! Guess I will get my 240v line ready.;)

So much for my break in period.





Thanks for the kind words Patrick. Don't worry there is more in the pipeline.
 
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gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
I am finally stronger than Gene!
Not quite. I'm smart enough now to milk my injuries to get people like you to do the heavy lifting for me :) I stick to lifting only controlled weight at the gym for muscle toning purposes instead :)
 
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H

Hocky

Full Audioholic
Josh, great job on the review - I will say that this is certainly the most in depth and comprehensive review I have seen to date of any subwoofer, and I'm glad Audioholics chose you to do this... I certainly hope there are many more of these to come. Especially with it being the updated Ultra13, its nice to see that they haven't lost the edge in performance, build quality - but most of all that your extremely over the top measurements match those that have been fawned over for years.

Thumbs up for all the amazing time consuming measurement layover graphs such as this one...
Agreed. Love the data. As everyone else is thinking, do one for my sub! haha ;-)
 
B

beyond 1000

Enthusiast
I just bought one of these monsters in gloss black. The 13 Ultra is everything Josh Ricci stated in his review. This was a very solid review for the sub. I myself am a competitive powerlifter and I had a difficult time getting this thing on the Auralex pad I bought. Mind you I was by myself. I replaced the stock power cord with a Nordost Blue Heaven and it did speed up things on the Sledge. BTW is there any way to print this article for a physical record? :)
 
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its phillip

its phillip

Audioholic Ninja
I just bought one of these monsters in gloss black. The 13 Ultra is everything Josh Ricci stated in his review. This was a very solid review for the sub. I myself am a competitive powerlifter and I had a difficult time getting this thing on the Auralex pad I bought. Mind you I was by myself. I replaced the stock power cord with a Nordost Blue Heaven and it did speed up things on the Sledge. BTW is there any way to print this article for a physical record? :)
:confused:
 
C

chilipalm

Audiophyte
What is the square footage of the home theater room where you tested this subwoofer?
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
What is the square footage of the home theater room where you tested this subwoofer?
These measurements were taken outdoors. The only thing boosting its theoretical minumum output was the ground. So as long as your home theater is not 90 feet in the air, you'll be able to reproduce these measured results as a bare minimum. Your room will also inevitably both boost the bottom end, and create other standing wave issues that are best dealt with by two to four subwoofers rather than one.
 
Ricci

Ricci

Bassaholic
These measurements were taken outdoors. The only thing boosting its theoretical minumum output was the ground. So as long as your home theater is not 90 feet in the air, you'll be able to reproduce these measured results as a bare minimum. Your room will also inevitably both boost the bottom end, and create other standing wave issues that are best dealt with by two to four subwoofers rather than one.
Yep. This post covers it pretty well.

The measurements are at 2 meters outdoors with any large objects a minimum of about 60ft away. My HT room where I do the listening sessions is slightly over 4,000cu ft and the subs are placed roughly 4 meters away from the main listening position. I do not see a whole lot of room gain.
 
B

beyond 1000

Enthusiast
Yep. This post covers it pretty well.

The measurements are at 2 meters outdoors with any large objects a minimum of about 60ft away. My HT room where I do the listening sessions is slightly over 4,000cu ft and the subs are placed roughly 4 meters away from the main listening position. I do not see a whole lot of room gain.

Hey Josh

Anyway to print this review?
 
Ricci

Ricci

Bassaholic
I'm not sure about printing the review. I don't think Audioholics gives out reviews on file or hard copies. I'm the new guy around here so i'm really not the guy to ask. :eek:

You could probably just print it out of your browser if you really wanted to.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
Hey Josh

Anyway to print this review?
We don't offer printable copies of our reviews yet but we may do that as a membership option down the road. Sometimes manufacturers purchase reprint rights to our reviews so you may find them on their websites (IE. Yamaha, Denon, etc).
 
B

Bloodstriker

Full Audioholic
Any comparisons to the older Ultra PB 13 with the Bash Amps? Is it worth an upgrade?
 
D

DS-21

Full Audioholic
A PB13U costs about $2000... two costs $4000. that's really the gist of it... not many people willing to spend 4k on subs but get zealous with an attempt to get a world beater
Keep in mind that all the subs in a multisub system needn't be identical. In fact, in every room with a properly set-up bass system I've seen, identical subs are an inefficient allocation of resources. The "helper" subs end up playing at much lower levels, so it stands to reason that they can be smaller/less powerful. (For instance, in my current setup I use an underhung 12 in a 65L closed box as the main sub, an underhung 10 in a 15L closed box for the second sub, and an XLS10 in a 10L closed box for the third sub.)

To keep it within SVS, one could use two of their 14" cubes around the room to smooth out room modes, in addition to an Ultra. That would be more like $3.2k than $4k.

I personally would definitely do two FV15HPs over one PB13U.
Bad comparison, because the Rythmik can't play high enough to be really useful. The servo limits its bandwidth unacceptably, IMO.
 
mike c

mike c

Audioholic Warlord
one could use two of their 14" cubes around the room to smooth out room modes, in addition to an Ultra. That would be more like $3.2k than $4k.
i personally don't mix subs, especially for the same signal (LFE).

the subs you mentioned sound absolutely different from each other and one would reach limits way earlier than the other.

now i wouldn't hesitate using the SB subs 40hz up, while the Ported subs will play 40hz and below + LFE.
 
D

DS-21

Full Audioholic
i personally don't mix subs, especially for the same signal (LFE).
You can personally do whatever you'd like. If you want either suboptimal performance the modal region, or some of your subs to have subwoofers have scads of wasted capability, that is a perfectly valid preference.

the subs you mentioned sound absolutely different from each other and
How do you know that?

If they "sound absolutely different from each other" then that's merely an indication that the overall system has been incompetently calibrated.

one would reach limits way earlier than the other.
Not necessarily. That depends on the relative level of each sub. Often, secondary subs will be set 6 or even 12 dB lower than the main sub.

now i wouldn't hesitate using the SB subs 40hz up, while the Ported subs will play 40hz and below + LFE.
That would work, but is not the optimal solution. You're needlessly depriving yourself of an additional pressure source to smooth out room modes in the modal region AND you're getting lower SPL in the first mode region. Also, a sub just used for 40Hz down needn't be the quality of an SVS Ultra. A cheap, crude long throw 18 in a closed box is probably a better solution for a sub with such a limited bandwidth.
 
mike c

mike c

Audioholic Warlord
You can personally do whatever you'd like. If you want either suboptimal performance the modal region, or some of your subs to have subwoofers have scads of wasted capability, that is a perfectly valid preference.

and you can do whatever you want as well ... it is an open forum

How do you know that?

If they "sound absolutely different from each other" then that's merely an indication that the overall system has been incompetently calibrated.

because i have them all. do you?

Not necessarily. That depends on the relative level of each sub. Often, secondary subs will be set 6 or even 12 dB lower than the main sub.

i still want the exact same subs, and i've had 4 PB13Ultras in the same room

That would work, but is not the optimal solution. You're needlessly depriving yourself of an additional pressure source to smooth out room modes in the modal region AND you're getting lower SPL in the first mode region. Also, a sub just used for 40Hz down needn't be the quality of an SVS Ultra. A cheap, crude long throw 18 in a closed box is probably a better solution for a sub with such a limited bandwidth.

you are free to think that
answers in red

it could have been a learning conversation between the two of us. but you seem to think you know everything. carry on.
 
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GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
Bad comparison, because the Rythmik can't play high enough to be really useful. The servo limits its bandwidth unacceptably, IMO.
It has bandwidth from 100hz to 20hz. That's perfectly fine. Bypass a crossover (run mains and subs simultaneously for maximum mode excitation) and you've got a -6db point at 140hz which is as high as any sub should ever run... if you've got bass issues above that range you need bass traps or gradient speakers, not subwoofers . The vent resonance is also up above 200hz.

I find your opinion (which I've read already at AVS) on "servo bandwidth" amusing considering you champion everything earl geddes has to say... and his choice of subwoofers is <i>acoustic bandpass</i>
 
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D

DS-21

Full Audioholic
It has bandwidth from 100hz to 20hz.
Not from Josh's measurements, it doesn't. I would say closer to 80 than 100. Not really adequate to address the biggest sonic problem in the upper bass in typical domestic living rooms. In the typical (poorly-designed) home audio system, that's fine. But a system assembled with some thought and some understanding of the underlying acoustic problems inherent to small rooms, not so much.

What Brian Ding has written (when he's not flaking out and making simply bizarre claims, such as claiming the "quality" of the "interconnect" makes a sonic difference in subwoofers) is that the servo basically limits bandwidth to <100Hz.

I find your opinion (which I've read already at AVS) on "servo bandwidth" amusing considering you champion everything earl geddes has to say... and his choice of subwoofers is <i>acoustic bandpass</i>
There's no inconsistency there. Based on models I've done with the woofer he uses (B&C 12TBX100) and reasonable estimates of the chamber volumes, the bandpass subs he sells have an upper F3 of somewhere in the 130-140Hz range. That's a nearly an octave more on top than the Rythmik offers, per third-party measurements. That said, with the Aurasound woofers I'm using, I could not get the bandwidth to extend high enough to be useful to smooth out room modes. So I went with closed boxes and an electrical highpass instead. What I lose there compared to a bandpass sub is a good bit of passband efficiency. Arguably, I get somewhat higher distortion as well, because an acoustic BP filters out a lot of distortion products. (The audibility of the distortion reduction is IMO an open question. But the efficiency advantage of an acoustic bandpass is not.) At any rate, I mitigate the potential distortion issue by using drive-units with exceptionally clean motors and well-optimized suspensions. So the concept is fine, but depending on the parts one chooses to use it may not be the optimal way to use them.

As for use of "bass traps" or whatever, anything that will actually work will be a gigantic eyesore and will have to be DIY simply because of the bulk of it. (Commercial "bass traps" are too small to be useful.) A better, and less aesthetically intrusive, solution, is mains stout enough to play without a high-pass (adding three pressure sources in the modal region) and careful placement and optimization of multiple subwoofers. Which, considering that in-situ they will be radically different in frequency response anyway, does not mean or imply identical multiple subwoofers, of course. Identical subs all around will work, and properly calibrated can sound great. The only disadvantage to multiple identical subs is that one can generally get by with smaller and possibly cheaper subs in addition to one big sub. Also, smaller subs in the auxiliary roles may produce cleaner bass, just because they will be able to fit in locations that a larger sub cannot. I am assuming that one can take measurements competently, because the automated systems (except for JBL's expensive, hard-to-find, and otherwise limited in capability BassQ) do not set up subwoofers properly. Unfortunately, it has to be done manually, through iterative processes.
 
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