SVS or Aperion

[moodyda]

I'm in the market for a new sub. My family room is roughly 4,200 cu/ft that opens to a kitchen, all vaulted ceilings. Current system includes; Sonus Faber Grand Piano's across the front (including the center) with Klipsch KSF-S5 for surrounds all powered by B&K (125 per/ch). This is to replace an OLD Klipsch SW-12 Sub that has been a decent performer over the years but has recently Died.

I have e-mailed SVS and Aperion as well as HSU. I have ruled out HSU as they recommended a pair of their VTF-3 MK 2's, and I do not want 2 big subs, plus they are going to a new line in Dec.

SVS has recommended the PB12-Plus/2. I love all the reviews and don't mind the size as I have a few spots where it will not even be seen (a recessed area in a corner near the listening area that worked perfect with the Klipsch). My only concern is how it will sound with music, as I would be 50% Music and 50% HT.

Aperions' recommendations were as follows: "For the best performance with both music and movies, I recommend two subwoofers. In my set up at home, a single s12 was great for movies, but due to the size of the woofer...a bit slow in music response. What I have now is a S8apr sub running off of the pre-outs for the front channels. The S8apr is a sealed sub that has extremely quick and accurate musical response, as opposed to low frequency response in the s12. The S8apr adds the low musical bass to the front speakers, especially noticable when listening to stereo. I then use the S12 for LFE, setting the crossover very low, (40-45hz) to add that rumble and output that is needed in movies. Also, the combination of two subs helps keep an even bass repsonse through the entire room". The price is a little cheaper than the SVS and their return policy is unmatched (30 days and they pay shipping "to and fro").

So again to my question; SVS or Aperion or something I may have overlooked

 

[Sheep]

Aperion has recommendations were as follows: "For the best performance with both music and movies, I recommend two subwoofers. In my set up at home, a single s12 was great for movies, but due to the size of the woofer...a bit slow in music response. What I have now is a S8apr sub running off of the pre-outs for the front channels. The S8apr is a sealed sub that has extremely quick and accurate musical response, as opposed to low frequency response in the s12. The S8apr adds the low musical bass to the front speakers, especially noticable when listening to stereo. I then use the S12 for LFE, setting the crossover very low, (40-45hz) to add that rumble and output that is needed in movies. Also, the combination of two subs helps keep an even bass repsonse through the entire room". The price is a little cheaper than the SVS and their return policy is unmatched (30 days and they pay shipping "to and fro").

I don't agree with their theories regarding 12inch subwoofers. That statement basically said to me that they use a cheap woofer, and the box is not properly designed. You can make a tight 8, 10, 12, 15, 18 inch subwoofer. It may require a little more work, and maybe some better components, but its achievable none the less.

From that statement alone, I would go with the SVS.

SheepStar

 

[bandit]

I am basically agreeing with sheep and saying go with SVS. I've always been a bit amazed at the statements of large driver subwoofers being "slow". The job of upper bass drivers, midgranges, etc is to take care of the frequencies above 100hz or so. I don't really know of a subwoofer that can't go up to 100hz. So I don't get the whole "slow" subwoofer thing. Going by reviews and others comments here I do believe SVS makes a superior product.

Bandit

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

There's really no comparison between the two. Go SVS. That's a BS statement about the size of drivers being "quick" or "slow." There's a lot more that goes into the transient bass of a driver than size alone.

 

[Ron Temple]

Can't comment on the Aperion subs, but I do have a single plus and did audition a DD15 for about a month. A friend described the DD15 as being skin tight, it's a very nice sub and over twice your budget. I preferred it for music, but not by a wide margin and I attribute this to the servo and built in EQ. However, many who heard both preferred the SVS which is not eq'd and thus not as flat (= tight), but extremely clean and visceral. I returned the Velo to my friend and though I'd love to have one down the road, it's not a priority. SVS is excellent for musical content properly calibrated, placed and even better with EQ. It's incredible for HT. If you don't have the budget for the slight increase in subjective performance with the "big boys", SVS subs will get you so close in some areas and overachieve in others, that it's a no-brainer.

Just an extremely good value.

 

[Sheep]

Isn't it funny when a Manuf. uses the word "slow"? I'd love to have a live conversation with them.

Them: Yeah, the 8inch model is much faster then our 12inch model, which is more suited to moves, due to its slow woofer.

Me: So you're saying that the 8 inch woofer moves faster, playing higher frequencies, while the 12inch is slower, playing lower frequencies...?

Them: Uhhhmm..... ....... Well, that's my momma *walks away*.

Infintile stupids.

SheepStar

 

[AdrianMills]

So again to my question; SVS or Aperion or something I may have overlooked

I've never heard or even seen an Aperion sub so maybe my opinion counts for nothing... but what I will say is that a single PB12 plus is scary for HT and can be subtle enough to fit in well with stereo apps at least it works well with my B&W804S...

And if it's anything to go by I ordered a complementary PB12 plus/2 yesterday to sit in another corner. I just hope my house can take it.

 

[matcat]

Sounds like you have nothing to lose in trying the Aperions

 

[Mort Corey]

If you were satisfied with your Klipsch SW12 for music, you will be happier with the SVS unit after you get it calibrated. I replaced an SW12 with a PC Ultra and now realize what the term "boomy base" really means.

Mort

 

[mulester7]

Isn't it funny when a Manuf. uses the word "slow"? I'd love to have a live conversation with them.

Them: Yeah, the 8inch model is much faster then our 12inch model, which is more suited to moves, due to its slow woofer.

Me: So you're saying that the 8 inch woofer moves faster, playing higher frequencies, while the 12inch is slower, playing lower frequencies...?

Them: Uhhhmm..... ....... Well, that's my momma *walks away*.

Infintile stupids.

SheepStar

.....Sheep, I can go with your reasoning to a large extent, but I'll say this...if there WERE a basis for saying the words "fast" and "slow" regarding subwoofers, the most variance I would think would be from a front-firing sealed box vs. a down-firing vented box....more power is required for a sealed box, but a front-firing sealed sub will literally part your hair with your being in the direct line of dispersement from a radiating cone....and, they are CLEEEEAN.....

 

[mulester7]

I've never heard or even seen an Aperion sub so maybe my opinion counts for nothing... but what I will say is that a single PB12 plus is scary for HT and can be subtle enough to fit in well with stereo apps at least it works well with my B&W804S...

And if it's anything to go by I ordered a complementary PB12 plus/2 yesterday to sit in another corner. I just hope my house can take it.

.....Adrian, I would have suggested another PB 12-plus just like the one you have....getting a PB 12-plus/2 removes the option of having both in the front soundstage supporting the front soundstage as per localization issues....but, I'm sure you have it worked out in your mind involving a back corner, so full speed ahead.......

 

[Sheep]

.....Sheep, I can go with your reasoning to a large extent, but I'll say this...if there WERE a basis for saying the words "fast" and "slow" regarding subwoofers, the most variance I would think would be from a front-firing sealed box vs. a down-firing vented box....more power is required for a sealed box, but a front-firing sealed sub will literally part your hair with your being in the direct line of dispersement from a radiating cone....and, they are CLEEEEAN.....

LOL, still a manuf. should know what transicient response means, and should use it, instead of fast and slow.

Comparing a sealed 8 to a ported 12 is apples to oranges, my friend. And calling larger drivers slow is just counter productive IMO.

SheepStar

 

[mulester7]

LOL, still a manuf. should know what transicient response means, and should use it, instead of fast and slow.

Comparing a sealed 8 to a ported 12 is apples to oranges, my friend. And calling larger drivers slow is just counter productive IMO.

SheepStar

.....so let it be written......

 

[moodyda]

Thanks for the posts. Does anybody have any info on the Aperions?

 

[Sheep]

Thanks for the posts. Does anybody have any info on the Aperions?

Theres a review on this very site, maybe you should read that

SheepStar

 

[AdrianMills]

.....Adrian, I would have suggested another PB 12-plus just like the one you have....getting a PB 12-plus/2 removes the option of having both in the front soundstage supporting the front soundstage as per localization issues....but, I'm sure you have it worked out in your mind involving a back corner, so full speed ahead.......

I have my L&R channels crossed at 60Hz and even though my plus is located in a corner next to the sofa there are no localization issues when playing music... However, when I turn up the gain a notch for movies (which I usually do) you can feel that the bass is coming from the sub in the corner when the LFE really hit hard.

I had to make a choice of either moving it to a corner next to the front speakers (which would have probably worked ok) or I could use this opportunity to justify another purchase to myself and fill a hole which has been screaming out for a side table. To be honest I've been regretting that I didn't buy the plus/2 ever since I realized that I had plenty of room to fit one (or several even ) in my new house.

And yes, you make a good point of stereo subs but in my living room that really wouldn’t work – I’ll post some pictures at some point and you’ll see why.

My guess is that the 3x 12" SVS drivers will be too much for my house all at once though but I'm prepared to use the plus/2 for HT and the plus just for stereo. We shall see – I’m hoping it will arrive today.

 

[moodyda]

I went with my gut and I just purchased the PB12-Plus/2. Now the wait

 

[Sheep]

I went with my gut and I just purchased the PB12-Plus/2. Now the wait

A fine choice. I'm sure you won't be disappointed.

SheepStar

 

[mulester7]

My guess is that the 3x 12" SVS drivers will be too much for my house all at once though but I'm prepared to use the plus/2 for HT and the plus just for stereo. We shall see – I’m hoping it will arrive today.

.....Adrian, both your subs placed correctly in the room should allow both to work at less spl's individually for the better longevity of both....let us know what ends up being your best placement......

 

[Sheep]

.....Adrian, both your subs placed correctly in the room should allow both to work at less spl's individually for the better longevity of both....let us know what ends up being your best placement......

In the subwoofer placement article on this site, it showed opposing corners, and mid wall on the side walls to be the flatest spots.

SheepStar