SVS 3000 In-Wall Subwoofer Review

[William Lemmerhirt]

That is most likely true, and there are definite advantages to your approach. I'm just saying, there are also a niche of buyers who don't care for reconstructing an entire wall, AND don't care for box speakers, who would find the SVS to be their best option, though pricey and not exactly powerful it might be.

Not being argumentative, but curious to your thoughts. What kind of solution is this if it’s exorbitantly expensive, and doesn’t give much in return. IMO, a balance between marks design and this could be possible. A longer enclosure, and possibly a vent/port. Wouldn’t have to be a large port, and could be hidden with a simple speaker style grille. I think we(myself included) sometimes get stuck in this line of thinking that something has to be all the way this way, or all the way that way. For me, this thing has the cost slider al the way up and the performance slider all the way down. Not a great juxtaposition.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

At least the spec page is honest. 107 dB at 32 Hz, 1/8th space lines up with the CEA-2010 2M RMS testing seen here.

I do find the marketing a bit hyperbolic. "No compromise", but you need 4 of them to hit reference at 30 Hz. That seems like an expensive No-compromise to me

Exactly. And for those who just don’t know could buy this “no compromise” thing and wonder what happened to their bass! The specs do seem in line, but the marketing overshadows that to someone who can’t make sense of the numbers.

 

[XaVierDK]

Not being argumentative, but curious to your thoughts. What kind of solution is this if it’s exorbitantly expensive, and doesn’t give much in return. IMO, a balance between marks design and this could be possible. A longer enclosure, and possibly a vent/port. Wouldn’t have to be a large port, and could be hidden with a simple speaker style grille. I think we(myself included) sometimes get stuck in this line of thinking that something has to be all the way this way, or all the way that way. For me, this thing has the cost slider al the way up and the performance slider all the way down. Not a great juxtaposition.

If I had to take a guess, I would assume this was designed for SVS to gain entry into the upmarket architectural speaker segment. Assuming this is true, the price is set to reflect some kind of integrator margin for installation.
They also wanted THE most discrete product possible. This means no ports, which would also require a larger enclosure and be harder to control with DSP, a compact cabinet requiring the smallest possible hole be cut in the wall, and all this was spec'd in before any engineer was even allowed to start considering performance parameters.
So you're looking at how large a driver you can fit between studs, how deep the enclosure can be to fit in a wall, it *must* be an included backbox to facilitate easy installation with dog-ears, and you're an engineer who has to eke out performance from these design decisions as best you can using amplifier power and DSP.

All this adds up to a subwoofer with what most people will perceive as deep bass, not terribly well suited for large rooms, but using DSP you get a taste of sub-bass output, and since you don't need to spec in your own amp, you're not annoyed at the inefficiency. With room-gain shoring up the response and helping it play louder than what CEA testing will indicate, it's not the best bang for your buck, but its intended customer could not care less, because it was easy to install, easy to hide, and no additional ports or an entirely new wall were required.

 

[TLS Guy]

If I had to take a guess, I would assume this was designed for SVS to gain entry into the upmarket architectural speaker segment. Assuming this is true, the price is set to reflect some kind of integrator margin for installation.
They also wanted THE most discrete product possible. This means no ports, which would also require a larger enclosure and be harder to control with DSP, a compact cabinet requiring the smallest possible hole be cut in the wall, and all this was spec'd in before any engineer was even allowed to start considering performance parameters.
So you're looking at how large a driver you can fit between studs, how deep the enclosure can be to fit in a wall, it *must* be an included backbox to facilitate easy installation with dog-ears, and you're an engineer who has to eke out performance from these design decisions as best you can using amplifier power and DSP.

All this adds up to a subwoofer with what most people will perceive as deep bass, not terribly well suited for large rooms, but using DSP you get a taste of sub-bass output, and since you don't need to spec in your own amp, you're not annoyed at the inefficiency. With room-gain shoring up the response and helping it play louder than what CEA testing will indicate, it's not the best bang for your buck, but its intended customer could not care less, because it was easy to install, easy to hide, and no additional ports or an entirely new wall were required.

I think you are right about this. It is aimed at the clueless installer/interior designer market. They are a clueless bunch on the whole, and SQ is the last thing they are concerned about.

 

[TLS Guy]

Matt wrote:

“By 105dB the distortion below 30hz was approaching 100%, so I have included distortion at 85dB and 95dB to make clear how the distortion is rising. As can be seen, the driver runs out of excursion around 30hz, which is where we see the distortion rise dramatically.”

So 107dB at 32Hz at what THD%?

Precisely: - so worse than a decent set of tower speakers. So there would be no hope of properly reproducing a bass drum and certainly not a 32' organ stop.

 

[XaVierDK]

Precisely: - so worse than a decent set of tower speakers. So there would be no hope of properly reproducing a bass drum and certainly not a 32' organ stop.

I wouldn't say 107 dB at 30 Hz in-room 1/8th loaded is unrealistic, but it is given as a peak rating, so my assumption here is that it correlates with the CEA-burst distortion. That might of course still be too much for some.

 

[XaVierDK]

I think you are right about this. It is aimed at the clueless installer/interior designer market. They are a clueless bunch on the whole, and SQ is the last thing they are concerned about.

I'm not sure I agree they are clueless, that would be a bit obtuse to be honest.
I think a certain segment of the market have priorities misaligned with what enthusiasts see as necessary for good sound reproduction, and this is a product for them, not us.

I have on-wall subs in a living-room system. They are only 10"'ers and they are sealed. I am helped by having four of them, and with DSP and adequate power, I have 100 dB at 30 Hz in my 3000 cu.ft. space which gets not a lot of room-gain. 95dB at 20 Hz at my listening seat. Maybe 97 if I double my power from current and max out the excursion of the woofers.
And to be honest, that's more than what I need for my situation. I'm lucky if I get to turn it up that high more than once a month. If I'm honest, being able to go to -12 or -15 from reference is more than I'd want for any movie in my room anyway.

And it still absolutely blows away anyone I get in the room for the first time. Hell, most days I have a hard time believing the output I can wring from the system considering it's dimensions.

I've had 15" subs in my space. Sealed, sure, but they could still belt out the bass. Have I experienced something like 4 18" subs in a custom home-theater? No, never. And I can assume most customers of this sub are in that category too, nor would they ever wish to own such machines.
And that's okay. They pay a premium for things other than performance, and that's their choice.

All I'm trying to say is, SVS' marketing might be a bit much, but there is A definite market for people who will never think they are missing anything with this system.

 

[everettT]

Nothing more than SVS selling to a customer who they don't currently have. I'm sure Magnolia/Best Buy will sell some units just off of them demo'ing an SVS box subwoofer, lol. That model worked for Velodyne (though their's was much larger, lol). I'd expect to see a 'reference' inwall from them ala a competitor to JL Audio and a couple of others.

 

[XaVierDK]

Nothing more than SVS selling to a customer who they don't currently have. I'm sure Magnolia/Best Buy will sell some units just off of them demo'ing an SVS box subwoofer, lol. That model worked for Velodyne (though their's was much larger, lol). I'd expect to see a 'reference' inwall from them ala a competitor to JL Audio and a couple of others.

Ideally they'd showcase the 3000 Micro as a facsimile, but I realise this probably won't be the case

 

[Nondemo01]

Great review AH and Matt! Once again the "I can do better/build better" 1% crowd shows up to yell at the 99% over "value". I trust Matt. He's well regarded throughout the industry and amongst his peers. When he says; "In fact, I can’t think of a better retrofit subwoofer option. When evaluated on the basis of in-wall retrofit subwoofers, I believe this to be the best option on the market that I have tested." That's HIGH PRAISE considering what he's tested and installed and personally owns. I'm glad you enjoy your DIY gear, you should considering the time you invested. SVS doesn't wander into this without having done research on the target audience. As far as marketing, all I can say is where have you been. If you think these companies hire ad agencies to target the people that read AH, I've got news for you - they don't. Be thankful Gene, Matt, James and others can get modest to dramatic product improvements to market for our benefit. I hate "boxes" in my living space. I'd happily install these with some quality on/in walls for a living room.

 

[XaVierDK]

So looking at Erin's CEA-2010 testing of the 3000 Micro, I think it's fair to say this is far more in-line with that product than something like the SB3000 or other subwoofers priced at $2k.

Still, I don't think it's a fair comparison for the in-wall. It has 9-10dB more output than the 3000 Micro more or less across the board, which is rather impressive for how relatively similar they are (9" vs 8", same amplifier, I'd say slightly larger internal volume), so in that regard it's at least competent as a replacement for compact in-room boxes.
Comparable output to the KF92 which retails for about the same isn't as egregious as comparing it to a $2k PSA or RBH sub

 

[TLS Guy]

Great review AH and Matt! Once again the "I can do better/build better" 1% crowd shows up to yell at the 99% over "value". I trust Matt. He's well regarded throughout the industry and amongst his peers. When he says; "In fact, I can’t think of a better retrofit subwoofer option. When evaluated on the basis of in-wall retrofit subwoofers, I believe this to be the best option on the market that I have tested." That's HIGH PRAISE considering what he's tested and installed and personally owns. I'm glad you enjoy your DIY gear, you should considering the time you invested. SVS doesn't wander into this without having done research on the target audience. As far as marketing, all I can say is where have you been. If you think these companies hire ad agencies to target the people that read AH, I've got news for you - they don't. Be thankful Gene, Matt, James and others can get modest to dramatic product improvements to market for our benefit. I hate "boxes" in my living space. I'd happily install these with some quality on/in walls for a living room.

"I'm glad you enjoy your DIY gear, you should considering the time you invested"

Not much more time then thinking about what to order online and get that done, delivered and installed.

The computer design work and drawing the plans as about a day.

I had the enclosures built in C & C shop. I went in at 8:00 AM and was out by noon with the four enclosures completed.

Since it was new construction framing the enclosures in was less than an hour.

Then we get to installing the drivers and conduit that did not take long, about and hour. The crossover builds about two hours.

Cutting the aluminum frames was about two hours, and then I had to take them to be painted and chromed professionally.

Making the grills about two hours.

Installing the gear took no longer than if I had bought everything.

For me this was a pretty easy straightforward job. No hassles.

It is a 1000 watt in wall system that easily fills the space with effortless high quality audio, and my wife loves it. None of it takes up any floor space.

What is really needed is that there needs to be relationships built between the AV community and the building/construction industry.

The fact is that physics rules, and you can't put a quart into a pint pot.

This rig is not just good "for an in wall system", but a really good AV system that gives no quarter to a 3.1 in room system.

 

[highfigh]

Did you buy this MDF from Menard's?

 

[TLS Guy]

Did you buy this MDF from Menard's?

No, I used the C & C stock MDF.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Nothing more than SVS selling to a customer who they don't currently have. I'm sure Magnolia/Best Buy will sell some units just off of them demo'ing an SVS box subwoofer, lol. That model worked for Velodyne (though their's was much larger, lol). I'd expect to see a 'reference' inwall from them ala a competitor to JL Audio and a couple of others.

I actually still have four of the Velodyne in-ceiling 12” Carbon Fiber subs that originally cost $600 MSRP each.

 

[TLS Guy]

I actually still have four of the Velodyne in-ceiling 12” Carbon Fiber subs that originally cost $600 MSRP each.

You are becoming an audio hoarder like me!

 

[everettT]

I actually still have four of the Velodyne in-ceiling 12” Carbon Fiber subs that originally cost $600 MSRP each.

They were an excellent value, especially for under riser subs.

 

[Nondemo01]

"I'm glad you enjoy your DIY gear, you should considering the time you invested"

Not much more time then thinking about what to order online and get that done, delivered and installed.

The computer design work and drawing the plans as about a day.

I had the enclosures built in C & C shop. I went in at 8:00 AM and was out by noon with the four enclosures completed.

Since it was new construction framing the enclosures in was less than an hour.

Then we get to installing the drivers and conduit that did not take long, about and hour. The crossover builds about two hours.

Cutting the aluminum frames was about two hours, and then I had to take them to be painted and chromed professionally.

Making the grills about two hours.

Installing the gear took no longer than if I had bought everything.

For me this was a pretty easy straightforward job. No hassles.

It is a 1000 watt in wall system that easily fills the space with effortless high quality audio, and my wife loves it. None of it takes up any floor space.

What is really needed is that there needs to be relationships built between the AV community and the building/construction industry.

The fact is that physics rules, and you can't put a quart into a pint pot.

This rig is not just good "for an in wall system", but a really good AV system that gives no quarter to a 3.1 in room system.

I'd rather search, click "buy", take a vacation while I pay an installer to "install". My system will also fill the room at reference levels effortlessly with high quality audio that my wife will love without taking up any floor space. I will have that because I hire people that have the very relationships you speak. But that's me. It's cheaper to change your own oil to but I'd rather sip Nespresso lattes in the waiting room watching Judge Judy. Some people just have different priorities and that's okay.

 

[TLS Guy]

I'd rather search, click "buy", take a vacation while I pay an installer to "install". My system will also fill the room at reference levels effortlessly with high quality audio that my wife will love without taking up any floor space. I will have that because I hire people that have the very relationships you speak. But that's me. It's cheaper to change your own oil to but I'd rather sip Nespresso lattes in the waiting room watching Judge Judy. Some people just have different priorities and that's okay.

Until five years ago, I did change my own oil and much more. You can get fat on lattes if you want. I have had a more interesting and rewarding life.
By the way you wouldn't be a hedge fund manager or some other useless super numary, by any chance?

 

[XaVierDK]

Until five years ago, I did change my own oil and much more. You can get fat on lattes if you want. I have had a more interesting and rewarding life.
By the way you wouldn't be a hedge fund manager or some other useless super numary, by any chance?

Wow