H

herbu

Audioholic Samurai
At the end of the day it will likely be the PB anyway but I am still trying to engineer a way up the stairs.:D
When you order the sub, simply tell SVS you need "Inside Delivery". They will contact the shipper who will then contact you for a date/time. They'll send 2 guys and set her down wherever you want. Cost ~$100, but removes the problem AND any responsibility from you if damaged in the trip up the stairs.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
When you order the sub, simply tell SVS you need "Inside Delivery". They will contact the shipper who will then contact you for a date/time. They'll send 2 guys and set her down wherever you want. Cost ~$100, but removes the problem AND any responsibility from you if damaged in the trip up the stairs.
Thanks, I will ask the Canadian distributor if they offer such delivery option.
 
H

herbu

Audioholic Samurai
Thanks, I will ask the Canadian distributor if they offer such delivery option.
Ask SVS too. I was in a similar boat when I ordered my PB13U. Told SVS I needed inside delivery. They checked the different shippers, got the price, called me to verify the price was OK, then shipped the sub w/ that particular shipper. A day or two later, the shipper called to set up a day/time. SVS handled it all. Not sure if they do the same for Canada delivery, but I would ask them first. Chances are you're not the first.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Ask SVS too. I was in a similar boat when I ordered my PB13U. Told SVS I needed inside delivery. They checked the different shippers, got the price, called me to verify the price was OK, then shipped the sub w/ that particular shipper. A day or two later, the shipper called to set up a day/time. SVS handled it all. Not sure if they do the same for Canada delivery, but I would ask them first. Chances are you're not the first.
I asked, the answer was no. I guess one can remove the 55 lb driver and move it separately but I think that may void the warranty so not really an option. It is out of stock now so I have yet another week or two to change my mind but have been doing lots of push ups daily just to be ready for the most likely outcome.:D
 
mike c

mike c

Audioholic Warlord
I asked, the answer was no. I guess one can remove the 55 lb driver and move it separately but I think that may void the warranty so not really an option. It is out of stock now so I have yet another week or two to change my mind but have been doing lots of push ups daily just to be ready for the most likely outcome.:D
believe me, it is easier to carry the sub yourself than go through removing and reinstalling the woofer by yourself.

i'm glad the woofer is pretty bullet proof, but i had to do that to my ultras which were damaged in a flood.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
believe me, it is easier to carry the sub yourself than go through removing and reinstalling the woofer by yourself.

i'm glad the woofer is pretty bullet proof, but i had to do that to my ultras which were damaged in a flood.
Ultras, how many do you have? And so the bullet proof woofer(s) got damaged by the flood and you have to replace them yourself, was that what you meant?
 
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mike c

mike c

Audioholic Warlord
Ultras, how many do you have? And so the bullet proof woofer(s) got damaged by the flood and you have to replace them yourself, was that what you meant?
at one point, i had 6 PB13's (flood killed two, 2nd baby killed the home theater with the 4 entirely) ... now, i use a PC13Ultra + dual SB2000's in my bedroom.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a330/superribbit/SVS/IMG_9559.jpg

no, the woofers weren't damaged, only the enclosure was (water was 3-4" high). the enclosure was too expensive to replace (for me living in the PH). so i played with the woofers instead (putting them in sealed boxes and such)

i get to live vicariously again though through my brother, he didn't know much about HT, so i setup his HT. i can PM you the link to his HT pics if u want.
 
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P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
at one point, i had 6 PB13's (flood killed two, 2nd baby killed the home theater with the 4 entirely) ... now, i use a PC13Ultra + dual SB2000's in my bedroom.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a330/superribbit/SVS/IMG_9559.jpg

no, the woofers weren't damaged, only the enclosure was (water was 3-4" high). the enclosure was too expensive to replace (for me living in the PH). so i played with the woofers instead (putting them in sealed boxes and such)

i get to live vicariously again though through my brother, he didn't know much about HT, so i setup his HT. i can PM you the link if u want.
I didn't know you are as bad or likely worse than certified bass addict ADTG.. I don't suppose you love DEQ like he does too. If not, you really should pick up some Denon AVR and link it up with your remaining 3 subs. That bedroom can't be that huge in a PH so it must regularly be under pressure. I too have a PC ultra but it is the original old model with a little 12" driver and mini 525W Bash. Hopefully once mated with the PB13U via SubEQ HT it will come close to yours, unless I swing back to the SB in the last minute but I doubt that would happen.
 
mike c

mike c

Audioholic Warlord
I didn't know you are as bad or likely worse than certified bass addict ADTG.. I don't suppose you love DEQ like he does too. If not, you really should pick up some Denon AVR and link it up with your remaining 3 subs. That bedroom can't be that huge in a PH so it must regularly be under pressure. I too have a PC ultra but it is the original old model with a little 12" driver and mini 525W Bash. Hopefully once mated with the PB13U via SubEQ HT it will come close to yours, unless I swing back to the SB in the last minute but I doubt that would happen.
i had a behringer DCX2496 at one time (so i could have a subwoofer for each of the LCR) ... but everything i had, had to go, to make way for the baby. :)

this was during those times that i was nuts about subwoofers
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/subwoofers/44397-subwoofer-opinions-mike-c.html
 
billy p

billy p

Audioholic Ninja
believe me, it is easier to carry the sub yourself than go through removing and reinstalling the woofer by yourself.

i'm glad the woofer is pretty bullet proof, but i had to do that to my ultras which were damaged in a flood.
Yup....I have the pinched fingers to prove that theory correct. You need another set of hands likely and nothing is ever straight forward as it appears.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I didn't know you are as bad or likely worse than certified bass addict ADTG.
Oh, hey, high quality musical bass is a lot more important to me than some surround sound effect enhancement like Dolby ATMOS. :D

Wait, unless ATMOS enhances the bass even more. :D
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Oh, hey, high quality musical bass is a lot more important to me than some surround sound effect enhancement like Dolby ATMOS. :D

Wait, unless ATMOS enhances the bass even more. :D
So did you compare the combined total square inches, or footage of your current RBHs woofers to that of the drivers in your ex-subs including the Funk(s)? Just wonder if your overall bass response has been enhanced, I mean theoretically. You also have to factor in the total cu. footage for a better comparison but that would a little more time consuming to do.
 
mike c

mike c

Audioholic Warlord
Yup....I have the pinched fingers to prove that theory correct. You need another set of hands likely and nothing is ever straight forward as it appears.
i already work with a minion on stuff like this, and it's still too hard.

and if i had to guess, SVS employs some tiny people to connect the wires (they go in and out of the ports) ... because those are exact lengths!

i mean, i can't understand how they connected the wires, did they have four hands on the woofer and another two tiny hands to connect the wires?

once i open the ultra, i need to extend the wires.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Thanks for the horror stories. I won't even think about removing the driver any more and will just focus on my daily push ups.:D
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
So did you compare the combined total square inches, or footage of your current RBHs woofers to that of the drivers in your ex-subs including the Funk(s)? Just wonder if your overall bass response has been enhanced, I mean theoretically. You also have to factor in the total cu. footage for a better comparison but that would a little more time consuming to do.
Each RBH subwoofer cabinet is about 8,000 cubic inch x 5 = 40,000 cubic inch.
Each Funk 18.0 is about 9,600 cubic inch x 2 = 19,200 cubic inch.

BTW, I sold both my Funk 18.0 subs to Oppman99. :D
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Each RBH subwoofer cabinet is about 8,000 cubic inch x 5 = 40,000 cubic inch.
Each Funk 18.0 is about 9,600 cubic inch x 2 = 19,200 cubic inch.

BTW, I sold both my Funk 18.0 subs to Oppman99. :D
You've got more than enough of square and cubic "inchage" but with passive I think you are now, as before with the Funks, amplifier power limited. There are good reasons why SVS, Funk JLA all tend to use class D to provide the >1000W with peaks to much higher levels. Even your largest ATI mono or 2Ch bridged would probably only provide 600 to 800W or so of average power right? Have you tried the largest Crown on one of them to find out the truth?:D

Seriously, knowing you now engage DEQ a lot, even at your moderate listening volume you bass peaks may cause your amp to clip. On the practical side though, it is highly unlikely you can hear even 25% THD at the very low frequencies so my concern is more with compression. You may be missing a few dB of dynamic swing without knowing it. Oops, now I sounded like Rich, hope he won't think copy cat.:D
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
You've got more than enough of square and cubic "inchage" but with passive I think you are now, as before with the Funks, amplifier power limited. There are good reasons why SVS, Funk JLA all tend to use class D to provide the >1000W with peaks to much higher levels. Even your largest ATI mono or 2Ch bridged would probably only provide 600 to 800W or so of average power right? Have you tried the largest Crown on one of them to find out the truth?:D

Seriously, knowing you now engage DEQ a lot, even at your moderate listening volume you bass peaks may cause your amp to clip. On the practical side though, it is highly unlikely you can hear even 25% THD at the very low frequencies so my concern is more with compression. You may be missing a few dB of dynamic swing without knowing it. Oops, now I sounded like Rich, hope he won't think copy cat.:D
I've used the Crown XLS2500, ATI AT6012, AT2000, & AT3000 on the subs. It made no difference in my room. Perhaps it would make a difference in a 30' x 30' or larger room. But not in my room. Keep in mind that even 10+ years ago I only had a single NHT 10" Sub with only 80W of power, and the little thing gave me earthquake wall-shaking bass for movies, while still very musical for music.

My little brother just built his 4,000 S.F. dream house in Dallas, Texas. His family room is 25' x 25' x 15' and really wide open. Yet the little single 10" NHT SW2P and 80W external amp still sounded great and dynamic.

My 15' x 18' x 15' room doesn't need much.

My 18' x 20' x 12' family room doesn't need much power either. I am only using a single Dayton SA230 (230W) to power 4 Velodyne subs in this room. They rattle every window and wall like a rag doll.

No signs of clipping, bottoming out, distortion, etc. All strong bass here.

When I had the Def Tech Trinity with it's 2000W of power, I compared it to dual RBH 1010 subs, which were powered in series by one 400W/4 ohm amp. Yet, the dual RBH seems to be significantly punchier and more dynamic than the 2000W Trinity sub. So even back then, I knew that it was not just about power - at least not in most rooms, which are NOT outdoor or stadium size.

Another thing to keep in mind is the power rating of the driver. The RBH 1010 subs have a maximum power rating of 500W. The ATI AT2000 can output 500W into 4 ohms @ 1% THD, so the AT3000 amp can output more than 500W into 4 ohms. I don't want to exceed the max power rating for my drivers. That is one way of blowing them.

So it seems to me that like speakers, although subs do require more power than speakers, subs really don't require as much power in most rooms as people claim. I mean look at your subwoofer level. Most people turn their subs to 25% volume or at most 50% volume. But again, most people's rooms are no bigger than my family room of 18' x 20' x 12'. Now if most rooms are OUTDOOR or in 40' x 40' x 15', that would be another story.

Another point is that I've always preferred the sound of passive subs over active subs. It may just be coincidence. It may just be the subs themselves and not due to active vs. passive. It may be the inherent built-in peak limiters or rumble filters of the active subs. My passive subs don't have any such limiters to limit the dynamics, like the active subs.

Some subs effectuate peak limiters whether you want them or not to protect the drivers. You could turn off the peak limiters on some subs, but then you would risk bottoming out or blowing the drivers. Limiting the peak dynamics. :D

I don't know. But in every case, I have always preferred the sound of passive subs over active subs. Passive subs just sound more "musical" to me. They sound punchier and more dynamic to me. It's like the bass of the Revel Salon2 or Linkwitz Orion. If the Salon2 or Orion woofers were used as subwoofers, it would just sound more "musical" to me than any active sub I've ever heard. Perhaps that is why Linkwitz used the dual 10" woofers in the Orion tower to make the Thor subwoofers. Perhaps that is why RBH used the dual 10" woofers in the towers to make the SX-1010 subwoofers. But it could just be coincidence. Perhaps there is a good reason Gene also prefers his passive subs (trio of 10" woofers) in the RBH 8T speakers. :D

For most rooms and most people, power is overrated for both speakers and subs IMO. Perhaps it's nice to have more power if you need it. But the question is, do you actually need more? In the end, just like speakers, if the subs sound superb, I'm not going to angst over some hypothetical potential percentage loss. :D

But for other people who feel that giving their subs 2000W of class-D power (instead of 500W solid state class A/B power) makes their subs sound better, more power to them. :D

Whatever the reasons, I would never buy another active sub. Ever. I'm sticking to passive subs (like the woofers in big bad towers) and good old solid class A/B American muscle arc-welding power. ;)
 
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