SVS 13U, PB or SB?

[PENG]

I've used the Crown XLS2500, ATI AT6012, AT2000, & AT3000 on the subs. It made no difference in my room. Perhaps it would make a difference in a 30' x 30' or larger room. But not in my room. Keep in mind that even 10+ years ago I only had a single NHT 10" Sub with only 80W of power, and the little thing gave me earthquake wall-shaking bass for movies, while still very musical for music.

I forgot, like me, you only listening to relatively low to medium such as 70's to low 80's dB SPL at the most. That explains why all those added raw power made no difference for you. My amps made no difference to me either other than some perceived ones mostly in my head.

No signs of clipping, bottoming out, distortion, etc. All strong bass here.

I have to challenge you on this one. I am sure you already know that at the subwoofer's frequency range, distortions are much more difficult for human to discern unless they get to much higher level, relative to distortion levels of higher frequencies. I think it may be safe to say anything below 10% are likely moot. Okay, I agree if that is true then who cares..

I don't know. But in every case, I have always preferred the sound of passive subs over active subs.

I think in AB blind tests you will be disappointed. At those low frequencies, I highly doubt the difference between the ATI and Bash or other proprietary class D amps make audible difference. But if it does it for you, that's the truth for you, that's why I think ematthew should get an Esoteric CD player and Rich should get a pair of Halo JC's

For most rooms and most people, power is overrated for both speakers and subs IMO. Perhaps it's nice to have more power if you need it. But the question is, do you actually need more? In the end, just like speakers, if the subs sound superb, I'm not going to angst over some hypothetical potential percentage loss.

Agree, again I forgot you don't have really huge rooms and you listen to "normal" SPL, like most people, I assume, do.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I forgot, like me, you only listening to relatively low to medium such as 70's to low 80's dB SPL at the most. That explains why all those added raw power made no difference for you. My amps made no difference to me either other than some perceived ones mostly in my head.

I have to challenge you on this one. I am sure you already know that at the subwoofer's frequency range, distortions are much more difficult for human to discern unless they get to much higher level, relative to distortion levels of higher frequencies. I think it may be safe to say anything below 10% are likely moot. Okay, I agree if that is true then who cares..

I think in AB blind tests you will be disappointed. At those low frequencies, I highly doubt the difference between the ATI and Bash or other proprietary class D amps make audible difference. But if it does it for you, that's the truth for you, that's why I think ematthew should get an Esoteric CD player and Rich should get a pair of Halo JC's

Agree, again I forgot you don't have really huge rooms and you listen to "normal" SPL, like most people, I assume, do.

Yeah, it's about actual need and actual sound. If we don't need 2000W, why stress over it? If we can't hear some distortion (< 10% THD on subs), why angst over it?

On passive vs. active subs, I compared the DT SC Trinity vs. RBH 1010 sub and Rythmik 15" vs Funk 18.0 vs RBH SX-1010. So it may just be that the RBH sub and Funk sub are just better in quality than the DT & Rythmik subs to my ears and probably nothing to do with the built-in amps.

I don't believe there is much of a difference in amps themselves. But I do believe the peak limiters in active subs may limit some dynamics in some music.

The soundtrack that made me believe this is The Dark Knight Rises (or was it The Dark Knight?) OST. The very first song opens with a tremendous dynamic peak. It's like a totally unexpected punch in your stomach. Every person who has heard it in my room with the RBH or Funk has had that "WOW" experience.

Also, it is A LOT COOLER using ATI or Parasound Halo amps to power the subs than some boring plate amps.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...

Also, it is A LOT COOLER using ATI or Parasound Halo amps to power the subs than some boring plate amps.

I would hope so. Plate amps are usually on the back of a sub, out of sight unless you have an angled mirrors behind it.
At least in a cabinet one would see those amps and be awed.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I would hope so. Plate amps are usually on the back of a sub, out of sight unless you have an angled mirrors behind it.
At least in a cabinet one would see those amps and be awed.

Be awed by the big bad solid state class A/B amps?

I think most audiophiles have a fascination with big bad amps. Most people could tolerate those little plate amps, but not I.

There is a subwoofer and amp for everyone.

 

[PENG]

I would like to know what other PB users have to set their volume knob to in order to be acceptable by Audyssey XT/XT32. For my PC12U it was at 11:00 for XT and just below 9:00 for XT32. Another question is, do you guys plug any ports, how many?

 

[Steve81]

I would like to know what other PB users have to set their volume knob to in order to be acceptable by Audyssey XT/XT32. For my PC12U it was at 11:00 for XT and just below 9:00 for XT32. Another question is, do you guys plug any ports, how many?

I used -10dB w/ my old Onkyo / PB13U combo. The Sledge amp uses a digital readout and relative scale for gain, so it makes the adjustments relatively easy. As far as how many ports open, I usually plugged one port to achieve 16Hz tune. I rarely (if ever) pushed the PB13 to its limits, so the idea was to make full use of the available extension.

 

[PENG]

I used -10dB w/ my old Onkyo / PB13U combo. The Sledge amp uses a digital readout and relative scale for gain, so it makes the adjustments relatively easy. As far as how many ports open, I usually plugged one port to achieve 16Hz tune. I rarely (if ever) pushed the PB13 to its limits, so the idea was to make full use of the available extension.

Thanks for sharing Steve, 16 Hz is exactly what I am going to try first, so the right plug will be plugged. I find it odd that going from XT to XT32 I had to turn down the sub volume so much. Or it may not be XT32 making the difference, it could just be the AV8801 having a higher sub out gain.

Now I hope herbu will check in soon and tell his story. I think he has XT32 but a Denon so he may have the volume set higher.

 

[PENG]

Are the free downloadable test tones such as those from realtraps.com and www.snapbug.ws/sinewaves accurate enough for sub frequency response plots? I don't mind paying but it has to be downloadable so I can do the checks/plots this weekend. Thanks.

 

[Steve81]

Are the free downloadable test tones such as those from realtraps.com and www.snapbug.ws/sinewaves accurate enough for sub frequency response plots? I don't mind paying but it has to be downloadable so I can do the checks/plots this weekend. Thanks.

Never used those tones before, but I'd expect that accuracy would largely depend on what you're measuring with.

 

[PENG]

Never used those tones before, but I'd expect that accuracy would largely depend on what you're measuring with.

I am using the RS meter for now. I think the frequencies will be accurate, just not sure if the levels of each freq are consistent.

 

[Steve81]

I am using the RS meter for now. I think the frequencies will be accurate, just not sure if the levels of each freq are consistent.

One would think so, else they'd be basically useless.

 

[PENG]

One would think so, else they'd be basically useless.

It never concerned me before but now SubEQHT seemed to have done a good job EQ'ing two sub so I though it may be too good to be true. Well, hopefully by next weekend the Mic will arrive, then I can run REW to confirm the plot.

 

[herbu]

I would like to know what other PB users have to set their volume knob to in order to be acceptable by Audyssey XT/XT32. For my PC12U it was at 11:00 for XT and just below 9:00 for XT32. Another question is, do you guys plug any ports, how many?

The PB13U manual suggests setting initial volume on the sub at -20dB. I did, and the Denon X4000 XT32 took it without alteration. XT32 set the sub volume in the AVR to -3dB. I left all 3 ports open.

For whatever difference it makes, my PB is paired with a Rythmik FV15HP. I have the FV tuned for max low extension, with 1 of the 2 ports plugged. My thinking is to use the FV extension strength for the low lows, and the PB accuracy & clarity for the more audible lows. It's likely flawed reasoning, but seems to work and I like it.

BTW... How are you liking it so far? (Sorry I was late answering.)

 

[PENG]

I have the FV tuned for max low extension, with 1 of the 2 ports plugged. My thinking is to use the FV extension strength for the low lows, and the PB accuracy & clarity for the more audible lows. It's likely flawed reasoning, but seems to work and I like it.

BTW... How are you liking it so far? (Sorry I was late answering.)

I agree with your logic. I plugged one of the port on the PC13C and got some improvements but when I tried the same on the PC12U the result was not good so I left the plug in the PB13U only. I won't play around any more until I get the MIC and run REW to find out if there are still room for improvements.

So far I do like the PB13U, the bass sounds better with music. I think for movies in my room, the PC12U is all I need and the new PB13U really don't seem to have any effects othan theoretically more headroom. I have to set the volume to 13 before I re-run Audyssey.

 

[herbu]

So far I do like the PB13U

I hope getting it up the stairs proved to be uneventful.

 

[PENG]

I hope getting it up the stairs proved to be uneventful.

I lifted/pulled at the front, two helpers pushed at the back/bottom up the stairs one rung at a time. Painfully slow but safe and easy relatively speaking, and yes, almost uneventful. The hardest part began when the beast was in the intended spot and then I started my endless attempt to move the two subs 1/4" at a time trying to find the best positions to tame the dips in several frequencies. XT32 managed to get it better than the single sub configuration but there is still a few dips, two at below 20 Hz low that I really don't worry about but there is a stubborn one at 50 Hz. The dip was really bad way back when I had XT and just the PC12U. XT32 improved it by a few notches and now a little better again.

I just tried plugging the PC12U instead of the PB13U and the response got a little better, so I am going to stop playing and starting enjoying. When my MIC arrives, I will play with it again but by then it will be much easier and quicker using Room EQ Wizard.

 

[billy p]

I lifted/pulled at the front, two helpers pushed at the back/bottom up the stairs one rung at a time. Painfully slow but safe and easy relatively speaking, and yes, almost uneventful. The hardest part began when the beast was in the intended spot and then I started my endless attempt to move the two subs 1/4" at a time trying to find the best positions to tame the dips in several frequencies. XT32 managed to get it better than the single sub configuration but there is still a few dips, two at below 20 Hz low that I really don't worry about but there is a stubborn one at 50 Hz. The dip was really bad way back when I had XT and just the PC12U. XT32 improved it by a few notches and now a little better again.

I just tried plugging the PC12U instead of the PB13U and the response got a little better, so I am going to stop playing and starting enjoying. When my MIC arrives, I will play with it again but by then it will be much easier and quicker using Room EQ Wizard.

Get some of those carpet or furniture slider...it will make moving the sub a lot less taxing. Work very well on any surface.


http://www.homedepot.com/p/Magic-Sliders-1-1-8-1-1-4-in-Grip-Tip-Round-Magic-Sliders-4-Pack-04273/100181916

They'll come in handy if you shrive on perfection and will be moving the subs all over the room to find the best location or best response and knowing you that is way you'll be aiming for.




When you have the time post some pics as well....

Congrats on the new sub...Peng

 

[PENG]

Get some of those carpet or furniture slider...it will make moving the sub a lot less taxing. Work very well on any surface.


Magic Sliders 1-1/8 - 1-1/4 in. Grip Tip Round Magic Sliders (4-Pack)-04273 at The Home Depot

They'll come in handy if you shrive on perfection and will be moving the subs all over the room to find the best location or best response and knowing you that is way you'll be aiming for.




When you have the time post some pics as well....

Congrats on the new sub...Peng

As a matter of fact I did buy 4 of those last Friday, probably larger than the ones you linked. Then I noticed the beast had two more feet, a total of 6. So I went to two Homedepots only to find out they ran out of the type, unbelievable!! Then found them in Canadian Tire for like $8.99 per pack of 4. Yes it is now much easier to slide now, but not by very much as the thing is heavy enough to cause the sliders to sink in.

Now that I have experienced in this 155 lbs (out of the box) beastwoofer, I would not dream of trading this in for SVS next 18" ported, sealed, may be. I suppose they could lower the weight by using bamboo and much lighter material for the driver's magnet but then the cost will likely be prohibitive.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Now that I have experienced in this 155 lbs (out of the box) beastwoofer.

Gosh, I have such an abhorrence to heavy components after shipping all the heavy speakers and subs I've owned (DT Trinity sub, DT BP7000, DT BP7001, Salon2, 802D2, and even Phil3, Funk 18.0 subs).

I hope you will keep your 155lbs sub forever.

So contrary to some hearsay (surprise, surprise), the SVS PB13U is duly musical to your ears?

 

[herbu]

So contrary to some hearsay (surprise, surprise), the SVS PB13U is duly musical to your ears?

To my ears, with my room and sub locations, the PB13U is more "musical" than my FV15HP. It seems a little cleaner, tighter, and less boomy.
With just the FV15HP, my wife's chair was in a bit of a null. Adding the PB13U got rid of it. Yet she says heavy bass music, (like UB40), sounds better w/ the 2nd sub. She says it is easier to listen to without getting fatigued.

Sounds contradictory. More bass is less fatiguing. But that is her way of saying it sounds cleaner, tighter and less boomy.

Perhaps it is just the way I have them positioned in the room. I don't know. But we have found a good balance for us now.

Peng, I hope you are as fortunate.