SVS 13U, PB or SB?

[Steve81]

I thought they had the best measurements for under 15K though I could not afford any of their F and G models.

Best in what respect? Here are measurements of the f113 from Ilkka:
JL Audio Fathom f113 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com
Performance is excellent given the size of the system, but I wouldn't qualify it as "the best". Here's the LMS-5400 in a 100L sealed enclosure for comparison (basically the pre-TSAD FW18.0):
DIY TC Sounds LMS-5400 18" sealed 100L - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

 

[PENG]

Best in what respect? Here are measurements of the f113 from Ilkka:
JL Audio Fathom f113 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com
Performance is excellent given the size of the system, but I wouldn't qualify it as "the best". Here's the LMS-5400 in a 100L sealed enclosure for comparison (basically the pre-TSAD FW18.0):
DIY TC Sounds LMS-5400 18" sealed 100L - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

Go by memory I think thier freq response and distortions are among the best if not the best. As for output, as you said we would have to factor in their sizes.

 

[Steve81]

Go by memory I think thier freq response and distortions are among the best if not the best. As for output, as you said we would have to factor in their sizes.

I can't claim to be overawed by the FR of the f113. There's a lot of signal shaping going on which basically gives the f113 a frequency response of a vented sub, i.e. flat down to ~20Hz, with a 4th order rolloff below. That last bit is courtesy of a non-defeatable rumble filter, which means unlike other sealed subs, you won't get deep infrasonic extension with a helping hand from room gain. Meanwhile there's also a rolled off top end on the other side of the passband, even with the internal XO defeated. Not exactly picture perfect.

 

[PENG]

I can't claim to be overawed by the FR of the f113. There's a lot of signal shaping going on which basically gives the f113 a frequency response of a vented sub, i.e. flat down to ~20Hz, with a 4th order rolloff below. That last bit is courtesy of a non-defeatable rumble filter, which means unlike other sealed subs, you won't get deep infrasonic extension with a helping hand from room gain. Meanwhile there's also a rolled off top end on the other side of the passband, even with the internal XO defeated. Not exactly picture perfect.

I guess I can agree with you. They are really not that great, I mean considering their prices. A year ago I wanted the f110 for my 1028Be but I couldn't force myself to spend another 2.5K on that little thing regardless of how good they seemed to sound. So this time when I want to replace the PC12U I wouldn't bother considering them again. I just can't understand why some of those subs such as Paradigms, Focal (Electra and up), KEF (R series and up) need to be so expensive, compare to them then the JLA prices almost seem cheap. Funks are not cheap but at least you get superior quality and exceptionally huge drivers.


I have the 177 lbs (shipping weight)PB in the cart now but have not input the credit card number yet, getting closer and closer, but can/may still change my mind. I am also browsing the PSA site, their prices seem attactive.

 

[Steve81]

Forgive me if I've missed it, but how large is your room?

 

[PENG]

Forgive me if I've missed it, but how large is your room?

You meant how small, it is only approx 12X18X8 plus 3X8. I do know going by size the SB is more than adequate but as I said I like the seal mode option of the PB. Either one's distortions seem quite good too, not much worse than the JLA that I have read from a couple of reviews. I'll take this weekend to process all the information gathered so far and pull the trigger next week.

 

[Steve81]

You meant how small, it is only approx 12X18X8 plus 3X8. I do know going by size the SB is more than adequate but as I said I like the seal mode option of the PB. Either one's distortions seem quite good too, not much worse than the JLA that I have read from a couple of reviews. I'll take this weekend to process all the information gathered so far and pull the trigger next week.

In that case, I've got a couple recommendations:
1. If you haven't already, build a cardboard mockup of the PB13U to get a better sense of the size and how it will fit into your space.
2. Give the XS15se I mentioned earlier (times two) a second thought...and a third. A pair in a <2000cf room would make for a very capable system. If you can up it to a pair of XS30se's, better yet

 

[mike c]

the cardboard mockup is a good idea. you don't know how big it is, until it's in your room.

in a small room, it might be overwhelming.

i've switched to a PC nowadays, but whenever i see the PB ... i still say "holy crap, that's big"

 

[billy p]

Peng my room is proportional to yours. I doubt you'll gain much if you chose to buy the PB and use it in sealed mode application. You're not to far from S-Boom and you could easily fit the SB13 in any sub-compact vehicle the PB13 not so much, it costs 250.00 less and you'll save additional $95.00 shipping from your location.

I can give you an idea of the size of the PB13 vs. my old sub...since my XS30 is about the same size my last sub(funk). I will agree with Steve though if textured black in an non issue for you the XS15SE would be an excellent choice. I'll exchange the new drivers on my XS30 by next weekend...I would be open to loading it up and arrange an in home demo for you...

Just a thought...but I will admit the SB13 was one impressive sub!

Here are some pictures to gauge aforementioned subs.
SB13 + XS30





My funk sub + PB13U

 

[Sheep]

I will fly over and help move it (put straps under and 2 people can move it no problem). In exchange, you give me your old subwoofer.

Offer is on the table.

SheepStar

 

[billy p]

I will fly over and help move it (put straps under and 2 people can move it no problem). In exchange, you give me your old subwoofer.

Offer is on the table.

SheepStar

Heh...already sold...BTW there is a decent size GTG planned for this summer in your neck of the woods...Nathan might be there as well as some very nice DIY projects & other members. The member hoisting is very......I could post a link to that GTG over at AVS...if you're interested..

 

[Madhuski]

1kw Seaton Submersive is smaller, lighter , and cheaper than a PB13......

 

[PENG]

In that case, I've got a couple recommendations:
1. If you haven't already, build a cardboard mockup of the PB13U to get a better sense of the size and how it will fit into your space.
2. Give the XS15se I mentioned earlier (times two) a second thought...and a third. A pair in a <2000cf room would make for a very capable system. If you can up it to a pair of XS30se's, better yet

I am considering those as you suggested, so far I have the impression that their specs and measurements (again just distortion and freq response) don't seem as good but yes price is better.

 

[PENG]

the cardboard mockup is a good idea. you don't know how big it is, until it's in your room.

in a small room, it might be overwhelming.

i've switched to a PC nowadays, but whenever i see the PB ... i still say "holy crap, that's big"

I do know it is about 21X21X27", size is okay, and even the weight wouldn't be a big deal for two persons, big or small. The trouble is the stairs, that's what makes 150 to 160 lbs heavy.

 

[PENG]

Peng my room is proportional to yours. I doubt you'll gain much if you chose to buy the PB and use it in sealed mode application. You're not to far from S-Boom and you could easily fit the SB13 in any sub-compact vehicle the PB13 not so much, it costs 250.00 less and you'll save additional $95.00 shipping from your location.

I can give you an idea of the size of the PB13 vs. my old sub...since my XS30 is about the same size my last sub(funk). I will agree with Steve though if textured black in an non issue for you the XS15SE would be an excellent choice. I'll exchange the new drivers on my XS30 by next weekend...I would be open to loading it up and arrange an in home demo for you...





My funk sub + PB13U

From the photos I think the PB13U is bigger than the XS30. I still cannot make up my mind. If I go for the SB13U then I will have to count on Audyssey Sub EQ HT's claimed ability to calibrate two different subs so the PC12U can help the 16 to 35 Hz range where the SB13U does not do as well. If I go for the PB, then the PC12U can be sold or use in one of my two channel system.

 

[Steve81]

I am considering those as you suggested, so far I have the impression that their specs and measurements (again just distortion and freq response) don't seem as good but yes price is better.

Depends on how you look at it. The XS15se isn't flat down to 20Hz outdoors like the PB13, true enough. OTOH, the gentle roll off it exhibits should match up nicely with the pressure vessel gain small rooms tend to exhibit. PVG will also serve to reduce apparent distortion (which I'd note, all sealed subs will be at a disadvantage relative to a sub like the PB13 at tune).

 

[PENG]

Never say never to an AH .

A friend moved and we used this dolly to carry a large washer and large dryer up and out of his basement. The design made moving up the steps very safe, but did not reduce the amount of muscle power needed. You may be able to rent one from Uhaul or Home Depot.

Or these, for a lb of beef..

 

[Alex2507]

...I would be open to loading it up and arrange an in home demo for you...

Just a thought...

Canadian Twister ... right on.

 

[KEW]

If I go for the SB13U then I will have to count on Audyssey Sub EQ HT's claimed ability to calibrate two different subs ...

You may have unreasonable expectations of Sub EQ. It only matches delay and level between the two subs. After that XT32 treats them as one sub. Given the money and effort you have put into getting everything right, you may not want to confound the situation with common eq for the two subs. Maybe it would work okay, but I'd much rather EQ identical subs as a common unit (after the time delay and volume was calibrated).

 

[PENG]

You may have unreasonable expectations of Sub EQ. It only matches delay and level between the two subs. After that XT32 treats them as one sub. Given the money and effort you have put into getting everything right, you may not want to confound the situation with common eq for the two subs. Maybe it would work okay, but I'd much rather EQ identical subs as a common unit (after the time delay and volume was calibrated).

It may work well enough because as you said it is supposed to time align the two subs first and I don't need anywhere near the rated output of either sub. I am just expecting more headroom for the 50 to 90 Hz range. If not, then the PCU will just be re-assigned. There is no point selling a 10 years old sub. Even if I can get a good price for it there won't be much left after paying for shipping.

At the end of the day it will likely be the PB anyway but I am still trying to engineer a way up the stairs.