Surge Protectors Discussion

[Assaf09]

Hello Everyone,

As i'm new to the forum and the whole audio scene i'm looking for some help with my new set-up.

I plan on having a 3.1 Klipsch RF set up going. I'll have a blu ray, an xbox, my AE, LCD TV all plugged into my receiver. Is the Monster High-Def Surge Protector which regulates power to each item really worth the 300$+ ? ... I plan on buying everything from futureshop on boxing day and getting a nice deal with a friend of mine who works there and was wondering which of these will do.

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/class.asp?logon=&langid=EN&dm=DEBUG&catid=28257

(also will the surge protector have any effect on quality?)


Andrew

 

[JerryLove]

No. It's not worth the money. Monster is never cost effective.

A good surge supressor is a good thing. That's too much money and likely lacks a thermal fuse.

 

[ljaggers]

Panamax came to do a demonstration at my work last month. They simulated a power surge with a Monster Surge Protector and Panamax one. The Monster went up in smoke and the Panamax was just fine. Now who knows if this was just a marketing maneuver, but I do know that Panamax uses quality materials to make their products.

Another note on Surge Protectors: In my set up I had all of my components plugged into my surge protector as well as my coaxial (not audio) cable because surges can travel through these cables as well. By running the cable through the surge protector, I degraded the signal enough to loose three entire channels. I called my cable service provider and they told me that most cable boxes have surge protection built into them already, rendering the coaxial surge protection worthless.

Just something to think about while shopping for surge protectors.

 

[JerryLove]

Panamax came to do a demonstration at my work last month. They simulated a power surge with a Monster Surge Protector and Panamax one. The Monster went up in smoke and the Panamax was just fine. Now who knows if this was just a marketing maneuver, but I do know that Panamax uses quality materials to make their products.

Sounds like the MOV overheated and the surround started to burn.

The problem with this demo? An extension cord (no surge supression) would have survived even better. The measure of a surge supressor is its ability to stop damange to equipment, not survive surges.

You want a surge supressor to kick in quickly, to ground excess voltage without setting on fire and, when the MOV fails or is overloaded, to fail-off (what the thermal fuse is for)... otherwise it stops being a surge supressor but keeps sending power.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surge_suppressor

 

[ljaggers]

That actually was the interesting part: Though the Monster surge protector went up in smoke, it did stop the surge from going through to the component. It was pretty cool, you would have liked it. It would have been nice to have you there to comment on it JerryLove and make the salesman feel inferior.

 

[highfigh]

That actually was the interesting part: Though the Monster surge protector went up in smoke, it did stop the surge from going through to the component. It was pretty cool, you would have liked it. It would have been nice to have you there to comment on it JerryLove and make the salesman feel inferior.

Technically, I guess it could be said that the supressor sacrificed itself to save the equipment but some brands don't actually do this and live to protect for another day. If the conditions that damage a suppressor recur soon after the first instance, the equipment will definitely be damaged. This is one reason I like some of the Furman pieces- they do it without being damaged in most cases. Lightning is one case where all, or most, bets are off.

 

[Knucklehead90]

A Belkin conditioner will do the same for less -- and it helps suppress line noises.

Very few Monster products are worth the asking price.

 

[cmchen0]

Monster product is totally not cost/performance effective. See if you can bargain a good deal since you are buying a package from them.

 

[Gior]

A Belkin conditioner will do the same for less -- and it helps suppress line noises.

Very few Monster products are worth the asking price.

I'll second the Belkin option. The PF60 can be had for about $200 on ebay and possibly even less if you shop around. Great value at that price as it gives you 13 programmable outlets as well. As to whether or not it's going to improve your quality, it really depends on how much noise you are getting on your AC line now. If your line is clean, you probably won't notice any improvement at all. In Australia, we have relatively clean power lines and so all these power conditioners/filters don't really seem to do anything much. However, I have found that keeping a constant 240v seems to help as line voltages can fluctuate by more than 10% and insufficient voltage can lead to higher current draw which can damage equipment.

 

[TLS Guy]

The best option for surge protection is whole house surge protection.

Add a fast UPS for line fluctuations etc to gear with microprocessors and you have it made.

 

[JerryLove]

and you want the local supressor to kick in at a *higher* voltage than the house unit.

Also, at least with projectors, a UPS.

 

[highfigh]

and you want the local supressor to kick in at a *higher* voltage than the house unit.

Also, at least with projectors, a UPS.

If the whole house suppressor is doing its job, should there be a way for the local one to see higher voltage?

 

[JerryLove]

If the whole house suppressor is doing its job, should there be a way for the local one to see higher voltage?

A current induced inside the house would come to mind. The last throw of a failing piece of equipment, an electrical short, a lightning strike.

There doesn't seem to be much point in putting on a house unit and then having all the local units tripping all the time... and that seemed to be the informed consensus last time this came up as a topic.

 

[MatthewB.]

I would look at the Tripplite Isobars far cheaper (not as pretty) but does the same exact thing. This coming from a guy who has two Monster AVS2000SS voltage regulators and a Monster 3600 surge protector. Get the Tripplite.

 

[highfigh]

A current induced inside the house would come to mind. The last throw of a failing piece of equipment, an electrical short, a lightning strike.

There doesn't seem to be much point in putting on a house unit and then having all the local units tripping all the time... and that seemed to be the informed consensus last time this came up as a topic.

But a failing piece of equipment usually won't blow high voltage out the power supply transformer's primary. If it does, I don't want to be there but it will usually blow a fuse. A short would have to be in a conduit with two circuits on different phase in order for teh voltage to be higher, which AFAIK, isn't allowed by code (not that it hasn't been done). Otherwise, a short in a single phase run will go to neutral or ground, both of which will minimize the voltage. The lightning strike- all bets are off, even with a suppressor capable of higher energy absorption.

I'm not sure that having multiple suppressors leaves the electrical service cleaner than being without them. It's not like internal filtering on an amplifier, where the caps are there to minimize AC ripple after the rectifier(s) but MOVs also have a finite life span and if too many surges occur, they lose some effectiveness, or fail inexplicably. I remember that "discussion" about surge suppression- its tone was almost like the political threads.

 

[JerryLove]

I'm not sure that having multiple suppressors leaves the electrical service cleaner than being without them. It's not like internal filtering on an amplifier, where the caps are there to minimize AC ripple after the rectifier(s) but MOVs also have a finite life span and if too many surges occur, they lose some effectiveness, or fail inexplicably. I remember that "discussion" about surge suppression- its tone was almost like the political threads.

I don't recall a good reason that a second supressor is neccessairy. I have a vauge recollection that a case was made for one, and I know that the local power company only ensures electronics throught their lightning arrewst system if there's also one of their strips, but I don't know the reasoning.

You do mention some of reasons that a power strip would have a higher threshold than the house unit in terms of limited MOV life, heat, etc.

 

[dalumberjack]

speaking of these

These are the two I have been looking at

Tripp Lite HT1210ISOCTR

Belkin PureAV™ Hybrid AVU1500

The belkin is about 400 bucks more. The tripp lite is about $260 on amazon and the belkin goes for $615.

What I really want is conditioning with IR. I want to be able to have my AVR, TV, and the fans I have installed for my AVR in the cabinet to turn on when ever the AVR is in use.

It seems these units are capable of that. Any other recommendations other than these two?

 

[highfigh]

speaking of these

These are the two I have been looking at

Tripp Lite HT1210ISOCTR

Belkin PureAV™ Hybrid AVU1500

The belkin is about 400 bucks more. The tripp lite is about $260 on amazon and the belkin goes for $615.

What I really want is conditioning with IR. I want to be able to have my AVR, TV, and the fans I have installed for my AVR in the cabinet to turn on when ever the AVR is in use.

It seems these units are capable of that. Any other recommendations other than these two?

Look at the Furman Elite 15i. It doesn't have IR control but it does have a 12V triggered inout and some outlets that turn on with that.

 

[lsiberian]

This thread reminds me of the guy who claimed Surge suppressors were dangerous and one of his photos had a strip with a lighter paper towels and various other flammable devices next to it.

I always use APC myself.

 

[Rickster71]

I've installed about 10 whole house TVSS units a year.
Had an interesting experience a few years ago:
Lightning hit the distribution on a dead end street. I ended up at 6 homes by the end of the day (they all saw my truck on a week-end).

Four homes lost basically anything with a micro-chip in it. One home had no damage, but the cheap whole house TVSS $40 - $50 had a hole blown out of the side. Sacrificed itself doing its job.(Exactly what MOV's are supposed to do) Only one house had no damage and they had an Intermatic IG3240RC unit; has a nice metal housing and $25,000 Connected Equip Warrantee.(Granted none of these are perfect)

The combined types provide the best protection. A whole-house at the panel and a point-of-use at the equipment.

Some very good Whole House TVSS is offered by the utility. They simply come out and unplug your meter, plug in a collar, then put your meter back into the collar.