Super confused and frustrated with the Marantz SR8015

[340Cuda]

Max the volume at the HDMI input? You mean your tv volume? Is that an arc thing? I might not be much help if it's an arc issue. Do you have something you can hook up direct to test with, like a Blu Ray player or cd player?

HDMI input is Directv receiver. So audio stays at the receiver and video over ARC to TV. Definitely higher output. The ARC is sending audio from built in tv apps to receiver. It has a very much lower volume output.
Sounds like I need a streaming box to plug into a HDMI port on the receiver and use ARC for video only. Supposedly the Roku Ultra and new Apple 4K support Dolby Atmos and Dolby 7.1.

 

[lovinthehd]

The only direct source connected now is the Directv. It’s much better than ARC for output.
I have everything off except Dynamic EQ on, 0Db offset. All speakers set to small, towers crossed at 60, center at 80, surrounds/ceiling 100. LFE 120.

That's not quite all the settings but they sound reasonable. I had inconsistent results when I used DirecTV, depended on actual source. You might play with the RLO, tho, as some streaming services and tv stations seem to vary in that area. If DirecTV sound significantly better than ARC, that's an issue right there.....it shouldn't.

 

[340Cuda]

That's not quite all the settings but they sound reasonable. I had inconsistent results when I used DirecTV, depended on actual source. You might play with the RLO, tho, as some streaming services and tv stations seem to vary in that area. If DirecTV sound significantly better than ARC, that's an issue right there.....it shouldn't.

I agree, but to clarify, not better, louder!

 

[340Cuda]

The part that is so confusing, is NONE of this was an issue with the Onkyo.

 

[lovinthehd]

I agree, but to clarify, not better, louder!

Louder is generally just a level/gain adjustment thing, and depends how you determine it. I'd prefer to see actual measurements than just subjective impressions in any case.

 

[lovinthehd]

The part that is so confusing, is NONE of this was an issue with the Onkyo.

But we weren't there nor had your experience/memory.

 

[Timforhifi]

Really to be fair the onkyo rz3100 is really a better avr too. The onkyo rz3100 has an interesting amp section. Sound and vision did a bench test of rz1100 and this is what it looks like.

125x2 at .1% distortion
184x3 at 1% distortion
111x5 at .1% distortion
153x5 at 1% distortion
103x7 at .1% distortion
127x7 at 1% distortion

Digital amps are the interesting part, they have more power then any other amp with multiple channels driven. Also they have enormous power at 1% distortion. It would be within reason to see 100watts with all 11 ch being run at 1%. Which you can’t the difference from .1%. This is the rz1100 bench too, it has the smaller amp. So expect much higher power. For example the pioneer elite sc99 had a more similar amp section to rz3100 and its power is

191x2 at 1%
158x5 at 1%
130x7 at 1%

Now we can look at a marantz that was tested by sane person. Actually a power amp by marantz and has bigger power supply then 8015 but it’s close. The model is the mm8077 a 7ch amp that’s rated at 150x7. Here’s the bench

128x2 at .1%
150x2 at 1%
114x5 at .1%
125x5 at 1%
109x7 at .1%
117x7 at 1%

we could look at all these numbers and say well it’s close and not that big of a deal but it does matter when you’re maxing out the volume. Also these numbers were all at 8ohms too. At 4 ohms it’s an even bigger difference in power. Really better speakers are 4ohms. I also would say the mm8077 has better numbers then the 8015 as well. I’d be surprised if 8015 was over 50 watts by 11. Which at your maxed volume all 11 speakers are being pushed with everything the marantz has.

Also the onkyo has more powerful preouts, better akm4490 dac and better preamp mode. Coming from an onkyo I’d turn audyssey off too and use the graphic Eq. My denon 6700 and 4500 sound much better with audyssey off but neither one of those sounds like my pioneer elite 904 or Integra drx1.1. I had the onkyo rz920 for awhile too and it easily outperformed denon 6700 to my ears.

 

[Jayem]

Have you gone into the settings on the Marantz and made sure that the volume limiter isn't on? Marantz has a setting that will limit the max volume to -0db. That could be the issue, but the default for that should be off, so it would be weird that it would occur out of the box on both the 6014 and the 8015
See page 204 of the 8015 manual

 

[PENG]

Information is king, so I would like to ask the OP some questions before suggesting anything else:

1) Is pure direct mode making any difference, in terms of how loud?
2) Since you are using ARC, have you check the setting of the TV's sound menu, also, have you tried setting the TV volume to "Maximum".
3) Is the unit purchased brand new and came in a sealed box, or a demo?

If 1) and 2) are not making a difference, that is, louder, or loud enough even with volume set to above 80 then it is time to do a factory reset, because some settings might have been messed up somewhere and it is hard to troubleshoot on a forum so it is easier to start from scratch, that is, return the SR8015 to factory condition.
No
Since you have tried two Marantz AVR already and they behaved the same, the chance of having two units being defective should be low, though cannot be completely ruled out, but let's do the obvious thing, such as factory reset first and go from there.

The Onkyo RZ3100 may be slightly more powerful but the difference would likely be less than 1 dB, hardly noticeable, all else being equal. So that is definitely not the reason.

 

[highfigh]

Louder doesn't equal better. DO NOT max out the level of a source input unless that source has extremely low output. Also, don't expect the volume control indicator to show the same numbers- the manufacturers don't use the same parts and this is where a difference can be seen. If you had compared the two without any audio processing and at the same SPL, "sounded better" might be a fair comment but without those being different and listening at different times, it's difficult to be certain unless one actually sounds bad. You're accustomed to the sound of the Onkyo, but I think the setup needs to be corrected- 120Hz is too high for a sub/LFE setting. You have tower speakers for the front L and R- try setting them to large and listen.

 

[Pogre]

The Onkyo RZ3100 may be slightly more powerful but the difference would likely be less than 1 dB, hardly noticeable, all else being equal, so no there is definitely not the reason as someone suggested

Agreed. The differences in specs are small enough to be inconsequential I think. There is something else going on. Hitting proper spl should not be an issue with the 8015. Or the 6014 for that matter.

 

[340Cuda]

Appreciate everyones responses and help.

To answer the questions:
Volume limit not set.
Both units were factory sealed and new.
Have not tried pure direct mode yet.
My understanding on the LFE setting is that it is not the crossover frequency. Setting the mains to small and 60 Hz is the x-over point? Not sure. Talked to SVS and they recommended 60-80 on the towers and 120 on the LFE. Had it all at 80 on initial setup, but was lacking, so changed to those recommendations.
The editor app is the first sound processor that didn't set my mains and center to large. Actually set everything to small and had the mains at 40 HZ. Obviously adjusted the numbers up to 60 HZ on mains and 80 Hz on center.
I seriously doubt I have two bad units, which is why I'm posting. I must be doing something wrong!

 

[340Cuda]

I did look through the speaker level set, and Audyssey has the mains and center -5Db and sub 0 Db. When I ran the program through the unit on initial setup, before doing it again on the app, it had the sub down like -10Db and the mains/center down 2-3Db. Not sure any of that is relevant?!

 

[oupee]

The Onkyo was much louder and had better punch, but that's another issue. The Onkyo had basically the same output volume, regardless of streaming app or Directv. I used the reference scale on the Onkyo, and 82 was the sweet spot and the THX level. I had to bump it a few up for some of the streaming services, maybe 84-85.

Do you have ECO mode off? ECO limits output power. It's a green button on the remote control.

 

[340Cuda]

...but neither one of those sounds like my pioneer elite 904 or Integra drx1.1. I had the onkyo rz920 for awhile too and it easily outperformed denon 6700 to my ears.

I'm really trying to like this Marantz, and willing to try whatever it takes to make it work and sound at least as good as the Onkyo. Onkyo gets a lot of flack, but they have a very specific sound, and to my ears have never seen it matched for movies only.

 

[340Cuda]

Do you have ECO mode off? ECO limits output power. It's a green button on the remote control.

Yes, Eco is most definitely off.

 

[oupee]

I also have problems with punching. Try changing the bass sync to 0, 5 or 10ms. You have to try more movies. I don't know why Marantz / Denon have manual bass sync. Older receivers worked properly.

Bass Sync SR8015

manuals.marantz.com

 

[Timforhifi]

With all 11 ch running the onkyo rz3100 is more in the 80-90 watt range with volume maxed. Marantz 8015 is easily half that in 40-50 watt range with all 11. So that’s doubling the power and more like 3db. 3db seems twice as loud, so power to me is a difference. The onkyo is even more powerful at 4 ohms too, but I don’t have the objective numbers to prove that.

Really a power amp should always be used when using more then 7ch. I’d rather have marantz 6015 with mono 7x then 8015. Also the sb16 from svs isn’t a high spl subwoofer. Svs prime speakers might just be something you don’t like too.

 

[340Cuda]

I also have problems with punching. Try changing the bass sync to 0, 5 or 10ms. You have to try more movies. I don't know why Marantz / Denon have manual bass sync. Older receivers worked properly.

Bass Sync SR8015

manuals.marantz.com

Can you explain what that does?

 

[340Cuda]

With all 11 ch running the onkyo rz3100 is more in the 80-90 watt range with volume maxed. Marantz 8015 is easily half that in 40-50 watt range with all 11. So that’s doubling the power and more like 3db. 3db seems twice as loud, so power to me is a difference. The onkyo is even more powerful at 4 ohms too, but I don’t have the objective numbers to prove that.

Really a power amp should always be used when using more then 7ch. I’d rather have marantz 6015 with mono 7x then 8015. Also the sb16 from svs isn’t a high spl subwoofer. Svs prime speakers might just be something you don’t like too.

Marantz states 70% power with 7 channels driven, so I'm assuming 60-70 watts with all 11. I'm pretty sure that at no time all 11 speakers would ever pull full output, leaving a decent amount of headroom on the front stage.
The SVS prime speakers were upgraded trying to fix the SQ problem after installing the initial 6014. They do sound better than the speakers they replaced, are 1-2 Db more efficient, so if I had done the upgrade with the Onkyo, I'm sure it would have been better.