Suggestions for Speaker Cables

[MacCali]

Someone has fed you a real dose of cod's wallop. There is no such thing as too big. The main thing that matters is that the resistance is low enough. So the rule of speaker wire is that the resistance of the cable should not be more than 5% of the minimum impedance of the speaker. The resistance is measured by twisting the ends together at one end only and measuring the resistance at the other end. If you don't know the minimum impedance of your speakers, assume it is 4 ohm, no matter what the speakers are rated to be and you will be right nearly all the time. So the speaker wire gauge is determined by the length of the run and speaker impedance, and NOTHING else. It does NOT matter if the resistance is lower than 5%. Speaker wire can not be too thick, only too thin.

The only other issue is RF rejection and it helps if the wire pair is twisted. Insulation needs to be adequate, but that is really a given.

There is absolutely nothing else to be said about speaker wire. That skinning nonsense is right out of the back of someone's neck.

Unfortunately when it comes to speaker wire there is more myth out there than fact. Interestingly when I have looked at some costly cables, they actually fail the simple criteria I have outlined. You only need to pay for cables that meet the criteria I have outlined and not one cent more.

I wouldn’t doubt it for a second honestly.

The ones I purchased are 6 ohms.

Everything comes down to physics.

Nothing can beat that, because it’s facts.

I just see a lot of polyethylene and PVC shielding and those shields themselves create some interference.

this audio crap is too much lol, just want to enjoy the music and movies.

 

[mazersteven]

Speaker wire can not be too thick, only too thin.

I've seem to have heard it can't be to Thick but can be to Thin before. Don't know where I've heard that

 

[MacCali]

I've seem to have heard it can't be to Thick but can be to Thin before. Don't know where I've heard that

I believe what he is stating if the cables are capable, which equals more money, thicker can be okay too.

But even looking I’ve seen company’s do a ring of cables and keep the center hallow to stop skinning or whatever it is that happens.

Not saying it’s correct, because I know nothing, But you cant go wrong with a good quality cable between 12/13/14 awg.

 

[mazersteven]

Someone Please tell him what I'm talking about. Wrong Cable Meatball

 

[MacCali]

if you want to create a shet storm bring up audio cables LOL

 

[stalag2005]

This.

A really good read in the links on that web page. Generally as long as the cable is of sufficient purity of copper and the wire gauge is right, you don't need to go expensive. Electrical transmission of an analog signal does not care about "exotic" claims. I will make one caveat here. I prefer a certified digital cable. Not all cables meet the specs, but a company that is not crazy expensive that certifies their cables is QVS out of Nevada. Their stuff is made in China, but meets the proper specifications.

 

[Speedskater]

Yes, I’ve actually heard that there’s a sweet spot for cables. I believe it was directly related to skinning or whatever that term is for the way a signal will travel.

The persons that said that don't have a clue about how electricity works.

 

[Speedskater]

don’t quote me, it has been a while. I think 13/14 awg is the sweet spot. From what I was reading which was a couple months ago

You might be right for midrange and above. The number of strands can have a big impact also at higher frequency.

Two audiophile misunderstanding.
1] there are no sweet spot AWG sizes.
2] there are no differences between stranded and solid (let alone the number of strands).

With speaker cables the main point is:
End-to-end resistance of the cable with reference to the loudspeaker's impedance curve.

 

[Speedskater]

I just see a lot of polyethylene and PVC shielding and those shields themselves create some interference.

Shielding is about protecting from interfering electrical signals. Polyethylene and PVC are both insulators, they are not electrical shields.
Neither shields nor insulators create electrical interference.

 

[highfigh]

End to end shielding is only needed in a challenging RF active environment. Generally the power levels in speaker cable is such that inductance from neighboring cables of similar power levels washes out. If you are really anal they do make twisted pair speaker cable. For normal 100 to 200 watt per channel 16 gauge is fine, but I would for speakers (ie woofers/subwoofers) use 12 gauge as the heavier gauges at low frequency do have an impact due to lower resistance. The higher the frequency the more pronounced skin effect becomes. RF propagation (AM/FM/TV/Wireless ethernet, etc.) usually uses coax that is shielded as the skin effect down the conductor is very pronounced as you go from AM to Wireless and the skin effect is more important for conduction in the antenna wire. Receive is generally a minute fraction of the power of transmit, but the shielding helps limit interference. For me, electrical transmission of an analog audio frequency for 20 Hz is the same as a transmission down a wire at 5 GHz. Given this, use of 12 gauge is generally more than sufficient unless you go to crazy amplification levels of 1K watts or more. These levels are generally seen in commercial equipment used in large venues. If you see this in a home system you are running massive power and your ears may be in jeopardy. Audio should be a pleasure thing and not a pain thing.

The only reason speaker wire is twisted is to manage it while the jacket is being added. Impedance being low, it's not subject to interference as it is with low level/high impedance signal and its conductors.

 

[highfigh]

Hey guys, back at it again. So caught up in my research I forgot about speaker cables

Any thoughts on some cheap beginner cables?

I found the cables I want to purchase but they are telling me 6-8 weeks. I’m not trying to wait that long and maybe looking for something temporary as my speakers should arrive in 5-7 days.

I will just wait until Black Friday to get my entire cable set up and speakers.

Only purchased two speakers so I don’t need a 100 ft of cable.

very open to DIY, but which cable?

I saw the parts express suggestion. Open to that and just seeking your opinion.

I was thinking audioquest rocket 11, just purchase 12 feet for 42 dollars.

I dont own any equipment prior to this, just bought my receiver.

Buy some wire. Use it. Done.

Go to Home Depot's electrical aisle and buy some wire. They sell it. If you have a Menard's, go there- they sell it, too.

 

[Speedskater]

The only reason speaker wire is twisted is to manage it while the jacket is being added. Impedance being low, it's not subject to interference as it is with low level/high impedance signal and its conductors.

Retired Audio Engineering Society EMI/RFI expert has a very different viewpoint.
While the amp's impedance is low at audio frequencies, it may not be low at radio frequencies. Interference come come in thru the speaker terminal and sneak thru the feedback loop to the sensitive input stage.

 

[highfigh]

Retired Audio Engineering Society EMI/RFI expert has a very different viewpoint.
While the amp's impedance is low at audio frequencies, it may not be low at radio frequencies. Interference come come in thru the speaker terminal and sneak thru the feedback loop to the sensitive input stage.

RF, but at what frequencies? If it's well outside of the amplifier's capability, it shouldn't matter much, if at all.

 

[Swerd]

@MacCali – I agree with Speedskater.

Insulation and shielding are not the same.
Insulation is plastic, usually PVC, but can be rubber, cloth, or even air. It surrounds conducting wires and prevents short circuits. Shields are actually conductors, usually braided wire or thin layers of foil, surrounding an insulated conductor. Unlike insulation, shields do not directly contact the conductor. They are meant to block electromagnetic interference (EMI) or radio frequency interference (RFI) from contaminating the signal in the wire.

Most, if not all, antenna, microphone, phonograph, and interconnect cables come with both insulation and shielding. The all carry low voltage signals.

I doubt if you can find speaker wire that lacks insulation. But it is rare for speaker wire to need shielding. (You should ignore all advice that suggests that different types of insulation make an audible difference in sound quality.)

Skin effect is real, but does not affect speaker cables.
The higher the frequency the more pronounced skin effect becomes. For AM, FM, TV, cable, etc. frequencies, the carrier waves are in the megahertz range (mHz = millions of Hz). For these signals, skin effect is significant. This why copper-coated steel antenna wires can be used. The steel core allows these cables to be installed at higher tensions than copper-core wires can endure.

At audio frequencies, 20 to 20,000 Hz, skin effect only becomes a minor factor at 10-20 kHz. At all other audio frequencies skin effect is insignificant. If any audio cable company or salesman talks about skin effect in a sales pitch for speaker cables, you should walk out the door.

 

[Speedskater]

RF, but at what frequencies? If it's well outside of the amplifier's capability, it shouldn't matter much, if at all.

From a Jim Brown RFI/EMI paper:

To solve interference problems, we must understand them. So we'll begin by describing the ways that RF interference is coupled into equipment and detected. There are several principal mechanisms at work. You should study this tutorial thoroughly to understand how these things work.
Detection at Semiconductor Junctions Every semiconductor junction, whether part of a diode,transistor, or integrated circuit, is quite nonlinear, especially in the voltage region where it is beginning to conduct. In analog circuits, we prevent this non-linearity from causing distortion by properly biasing the circuitry, by using lots of negative feedback, and by preventing the signal from being large enough to cross into the cutoff region.
Thanks to this non-linearity, every semiconductor junction functions as a square law detector, detecting any RF signal it sees. A good designer prevents detection by shielding the equipment and its wiring, by filtering input and output wiring, and even by bypassing the junction by a capacitor.

 

[highfigh]

From a Jim Brown RFI/EMI paper:

To solve interference problems, we must understand them. So we'll begin by describing the ways that RF interference is coupled into equipment and detected. There are several principal mechanisms at work. You should study this tutorial thoroughly to understand how these things work.
Detection at Semiconductor Junctions Every semiconductor junction, whether part of a diode,transistor, or integrated circuit, is quite nonlinear, especially in the voltage region where it is beginning to conduct. In analog circuits, we prevent this non-linearity from causing distortion by properly biasing the circuitry, by using lots of negative feedback, and by preventing the signal from being large enough to cross into the cutoff region.
Thanks to this non-linearity, every semiconductor junction functions as a square law detector, detecting any RF signal it sees. A good designer prevents detection by shielding the equipment and its wiring, by filtering input and output wiring, and even by bypassing the junction by a capacitor.

Jim Brown, the football player/actor? Impressive!

OK, but to what extent does this RF affect the audible performance? Assuming power "conditioner" companies take this on an absolute level, how well do they suppress RF if they use semiconductors in their designs?

 

[stalag2005]

I am not very used to consumer analog. Digital signals were the common signals being passed or it was line level analog usually. Professional equipment was designed for a 200K analog signal passthrough. Most of the time, the 20KHz signal was a byproduct and we did not worry about that. Most of our concern was making sure the signal was intact and unaltered in the chain leading to the transmitter. Typical rolloff of a mechanical connection is 3db on the high end.

 

[stalag2005]

Jim Brown, the football player/actor? Impressive!

OK, but to what extent does this RF affect the audible performance? Assuming power "conditioner" companies take this on an absolute level, how well do they suppress RF if they use semiconductors in their designs?

On the better equipment the RF feedback has suppression circuitry in the solid state. Tube amps if designed properly are not nearly as susceptible but also have suppression for RF on the higher end equipment. RF typically if strong enough affects harmonics and radio can bleed through due to the overlaid audio on the carrier wave. That audio can get amplified and feed back into the speakers and suppressing that can be a challenge.

 

[MacCali]

Shielding is about protecting from interfering electrical signals. Polyethylene and PVC are both insulators, they are not electrical shields.
Neither shields nor insulators create electrical interference.

I got that from Beekhuyzen, so I’m not doubting you. But I can’t doubt him either when I know nothing.

He’s not an audio engineer though.

 

[MacCali]

Buy some wire. Use it. Done.

Go to Home Depot's electrical aisle and buy some wire. They sell it. If you have a Menard's, go there- they sell it, too.

Retired Audio Engineering Society EMI/RFI expert has a very different viewpoint.
While the amp's impedance is low at audio frequencies, it may not be low at radio frequencies. Interference come come in thru the speaker terminal and sneak thru the feedback loop to the sensitive input stage.

Well man I’m not here to debate, you are apparently more than knowledgeable.

my question would just lead to what do you think the best cables would be for my Elac Unifi 2.0?

I’m not talking about Home Depot, right now I’m just purchasing temporary. That’s why I’m going cheap. Only currently ordered 2 bookshelves.

Later I wish to buy whatever it is that will be precisely what the speakers need.

Crossover frequency: 200 / 2,000 Hz
Frequency response: 46 to 35,000 Hz
Sensitivity: 85 dB at 2.83 v/1m
Recommended amplifier power: 40 to 140 wpc
Peak power handling: 140 wpc
Nominal impedance: 6 Ω
On the graph hits 5.6 ohms

Towers
Crossover frequency: 200 / 2,000 Hz
Frequency response: 42 to 35,000 Hz
Sensitivity: 85 dB at 2.83 v/1m
Recommended amplifier power: 40 to 140 wpc
Peak power handling: 140 wpc
Nominal impedance: 6 Ω

Believe those are both the same, and the towers nominal impedance is 5.6 lowest.