Subwoofer level for music AND films

D

Dan thurston

Audiophyte
Can anyone offer some advice for me. I did look for similar threads but not sure if any others follow this particular thing.Happy to re post if there's a better place.
I just replaced my faulty Yamaha sub with a Polke audio PSW10 which seems really great. Placement isn't ideal but I'm very limited.

My main front speakers are slightly larger than classic "bookshelf" (AE evo 1) good low response but even so I did set them as 'small' along with all other speakers as recommended.
Receiver is Yamaha RX-V679- also really pleased with.- I can setup a crossover of 80Hz for the sub but there's no option for crossover on the other speakers.
Centre speaker is also AE Evo 1 with 2 mid drivers and 2 tweeters

So overall I'm really happy with the setup for films.

My question is- If I set the subwoofer level at the desired level for films does that mean that I'm not getting the best sound for music? I presume that for music the lower bass frequencies are sent to the sub? If they are then is it possible for that level to be too low for music because I've got the sub set quite low in films?
I don't know what frequency the receiver sets for the other "small" speakers" as it doesn't let you choose.

Music sounds quite punchy but I would like it to feel less punchy and have a bit more mid bass.

To be honest I feel that my ideal music sound is to have all the speakers set as large with no sub. But that's obviously not possible

Any help much appreciated and sorry if my terminology isn't right.
 
XEagleDriver

XEagleDriver

Senior Audioholic
Can anyone offer some advice for me. . .
I just replaced my faulty Yamaha sub with a Polk PSW10 which seems really great. Placement isn't ideal but I'm very limited.

My main front speakers are slightly larger than classic "bookshelf" (AE Evo 1) good low response but even so I did set them as 'small' along with all other speakers as recommended.
Disagree. Evo 1 are typical bookshelf sized speakers. With a low end 3dB point of 50 Hz are neither bad, nor particularly good, at producing bass.
Receiver is Yamaha RX-V679- also really pleased with.- I can setup a crossover of 80Hz for the sub but there's no option for crossover on the other speakers.
Not exactly, see manual page 105, when you set the "Bass Cross Over" value (e.g. 80 Hz) that sets the crossover for all speakers set to "Small". Signal content below the selected frequency is sent to the sub and content above it is sent to the appropriate speaker (i.e. L/C/R or Surround).
- Yamaha's description is poorly worded and confusing on this point.
My question is- If I set the subwoofer level at the desired level for films does that mean that I'm not getting the best sound for music?
I presume that for music the lower bass frequencies are sent to the sub?
When properly dialed in, your sub supports film and music equally well. A sub is set in relation to your speakers, your sub, its placement, and the room. Properly set is properly set.
Music sounds quite punchy but I would like it to feel less punchy and have a bit more mid bass.
This is a function of the sub, placement and room. FWIW: The PSW10 is not a very capable sub and sounds boomy when pushed too hard.
To be honest I feel that my ideal music sound is to have all the speakers set as large with no sub. But that's obviously not possible.
It is possible if you change Sub to None in the Setup menu.
Cheers,
XEagleDriver



Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
D

Dan thurston

Audiophyte
Thanks for that explanation, really helpful. I realise I’ve been misunderstanding a few things so thanks.

I think I’m right in now thinking that the ‘LFE’ is a channel and not a physical output. If that is the case then it’s a shame you can’t adjust the level of the LFE separately. I can’t find any option for that in the menu or the manual.
Thanks again

Disagree. Evo 1 are typical bookshelf sized speakers. With a low end 3dB point of 50 Hz are neither bad, nor particularly good, at producing bass.

Not exactly, see manual page 105, when you set the "Bass Cross Over" value (e.g. 80 Hz) that sets the crossover for all speakers set to "Small". Signal content below the selected frequency is sent to the sub and content above it is sent to the appropriate speaker (i.e. L/C/R or Surround).
- Yamaha's description is poorly worded and confusing on this point.

When properly dialed in, your sub supports film and music equally well. A sub is set in relation to your speakers, your sub, its placement, and the room. Properly set is properly set.

This is a function of the sub, placement and room. FWIW: The PSW10 is not a very capable sub and sounds boomy when pushed too hard.

It is possible if you change Sub to None in the Setup menu.
Cheers,
XEagleDriver



Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Disagree. Evo 1 are typical bookshelf sized speakers. With a low end 3dB point of 50 Hz are neither bad, nor particularly good, at producing bass.

Not exactly, see manual page 105, when you set the "Bass Cross Over" value (e.g. 80 Hz) that sets the crossover for all speakers set to "Small". Signal content below the selected frequency is sent to the sub and content above it is sent to the appropriate speaker (i.e. L/C/R or Surround).
- Yamaha's description is poorly worded and confusing on this point.

When properly dialed in, your sub supports film and music equally well. A sub is set in relation to your speakers, your sub, its placement, and the room. Properly set is properly set.

This is a function of the sub, placement and room. FWIW: The PSW10 is not a very capable sub and sounds boomy when pushed too hard.

It is possible if you change Sub to None in the Setup menu.
Cheers,
XEagleDriver



Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 
XEagleDriver

XEagleDriver

Senior Audioholic
Thanks for that explanation, really helpful. I realise I’ve been misunderstanding a few things so thanks.

I think I’m right in now thinking that the ‘LFE’ is a channel and not a physical output. If that is the case then it’s a shame you can’t adjust the level of the LFE separately. I can’t find any option for that in the menu or the manual.
Thanks again
Correct, the "Output" is the Sub connector on the rear of the RX-679.
Through that Sub Out, both the LFE Channel and Bass from the designated Small speaker channels (below selected xover freq) is sent to the sub.

Many newer/more expensive AVRs do have a separate LFE xover and individual speaker xover settings. Unfortunately the RX-679 does not.
For example, my Denon X4500H does, this is a useful feature.
Cheers,
XEagleDriver


Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
While some avrs have a LPF of LFE adjustment, it's not a crossover; it's just a limit on the LFE channel (i.e. the content that has a ".1" channnel). Crossovers are a combination of a low pass for the sub and high pass for the speakers (i.e. where the slopes "crossover"). I'd think your avr can be set to use no sub for 2.0 content, forget what Yamaha calls their direct mode....they use odd language. Much music doesn't have a lot of sub bass content, but you could always adjust the sub trim level up a bit to help out if desired.
 
XEagleDriver

XEagleDriver

Senior Audioholic
While some avrs have a LPF of LFE adjustment, it's not a crossover; it's just a limit on the LFE channel (i.e. the content that has a ".1" channnel). Crossovers are a combination of a low pass for the sub and high pass for the speakers (i.e. where the slopes "crossover").
A couple questions:

1) For AVRs with a LPF or LFE adjust setting, what happens to LFE content above the selected setting?
- Sent to audio purgatory, never to be heard from again?

2) Is there an upper freq limit to LFE content in movies and/or multichannel music mixes?
- If so, what is it or what are typical values?

Denon X4500 default LFE setting is 120 Hz, checking if that is a good, low, or high value.
Thanks,
XEagleDriver


Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
A couple questions:

1) For AVRs with a LPF or LFE adjust setting, what happens to LFE content above the selected setting?
- Sent to audio purgatory, never to be heard from again?

2) Is there an upper freq limit to LFE content in movies and/or multichannel music mixes?
- If so, what is it or what are typical values?

Denon X4500 default LFE setting is 120 Hz, checking if that is a good, low, or high value.
Thanks,
XEagleDriver


Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Generally in most use, movies particularly, the limit of the recording is 120hz in the LFE channel, altho up to whoever's recording it but that's the usual limit. Some multich music doesn't even use the LFE channel. 120hz is a perfectly fine setting and probably one that would be fine without consumer choice.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Overlord
It may be possible to have two separate settings if you have more than 1 memory setting on the AVR. I have to read the manual first for your Yamahavto make sure but its getting late for me. I set my bass on the hot side for movies as I get my kicks when things are rattling on my walls. For music, if I use a sub, its barely audible just filling the bottom end out.
 
J

JAB11

Enthusiast
I had the same question you did. My single sub was set the same for music/movies and it didn't make any sense to me. So I visited some dealers and one said, "yeah, that's why you buy a REL, it has separate level adjustment knobs for music and movies (LFE)". Bought a REL t9 and sure enough, I use just a bit of high input level for music and in movies the sub recognizes an incoming LFE signal from the AVR and you adjust the LFE level control to bring the boom. Now I get a great soundtrack and great door slams when watching movies, or with music I have my good 2 ch. speaker sound with some low bass extension to the sub just at the level I want it. REL isn't giving them away but it's a no brainer to use, looks great and is a small footprint for the amount of output you get.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
LOL that's why you buy a Rel....you can't handle a better way of doing things. It's just a double bass setting. Whoopee. Expensive sub for such mediocre performance otherwise....and in music there is no LFE signal generally....
 

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