Subwoofer EQ'ing, Behringer PRO DSP 1124P

Warpdrv

Warpdrv

Audioholic Ninja
Not going to happen.
Pure direct is 2 channel only no subs.

Pick a different one.

Glad to hear its sounding better. Apply some sticky felt inside the door jams to take up the slack to stop the vibrations.
 
B

Beatmatcher247

Full Audioholic
So its either multichannel with sub, or stereo without? Can't run both stereo and sub?
 
its phillip

its phillip

Audioholic Ninja
The sub should be on for all modes except pure direct.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Pure direct removes the sub for stereo (removes all bass management), but if you are running multichannel analog, you will get the sub for multichannel audio because the m/c analog input isn't managed by the receiver except for levels if it is like mine.
 
Warpdrv

Warpdrv

Audioholic Ninja
What are you feeding your 7005 with for music.... cd player, bluray, streaming.... ?

Personally I just input with HDMI and let the processor make the switches for me....

I can control what signal gets processed with whatever listening mode I want when 2 channel comes on or multichannel, so bass management stays applied with my Anthem D2v....

should be some sort of ability to make those selections in your 7005 as well...
 
B

Beatmatcher247

Full Audioholic
Cambridge Azure 650BD hdmi into prepro and sometimes my pc via optical output on soundcard (Creatuve X-Fi Platinum). 7005 does a good job of autoselecting the right surround mode for the right source... just wish it had an easy way to turn sub on. I don't really dig having my rear surrounds and centers going for music. . I thought it would be a no brainer that there is a mode for front left, front right, and subs, but I might be wrong... may have to just unplug the inputs on the amp for the other 3 channels... and set to a multichannel stereo mode. That'll do it for sure. :D

I've still got to build a new htpc rig that has a modern video card that handles audio passthrough to the preamp via the HDMI cable.
 
Warpdrv

Warpdrv

Audioholic Ninja
There should be no reason that the 7005 shouldn't do 2 change + sub
You just gotta set it up in the input setup.
If it doesn't do that that IMO is a major flaw.in the product and one I would never purchase.
 
B

Beatmatcher247

Full Audioholic
Ok to do 2+ Sub, I need to go into bass management and set it to
LFE= Main + Sub. (which only runs bass through speakers set to large, and the subwoofer. To not double up on lfe, I set them to small? and am good to go? Also don't want to blow up my synch ones when rocking movies at 0dB, so just leavem set to small, unless subs are turned off and you want to full range.. then set to large?)

If I'm understanding what I'm reading, pure direct only functions when using analog inputs off the player not hdmi. Now I can just change the sublevel to "off" should I not want to listen to it.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
If you don't want to double up on LFE, don't set it to Mains + sub, just set them to small with the desired x-over. Mains + sub and small sort of cancel each other out, so I am not sure if (or why) you could do both.

Yes, I do believe pure direct is intended for analog sources. The Cambridge should have a good analog section, which really would be one of the reasons to buy it, so... connect it with stereo analog (different input) and then pure direct will remove the sub.
 
Warpdrv

Warpdrv

Audioholic Ninja
Correct, you don't want to have your mains set to large ever when you have subs that will blow the mains out of the water in terms of bass capabilities....

Set your speakers to small, and xover your subs to what you feel sounds best to you....

I regularly fight with people that are so hung up on trying to xover as low as they possibly can, when they have spent thousands and thousands of dollars on high quality subs that will handle the low, mid and upper bass far more efficiently then your puny little mains bass drivers could ever think of doing.... they let their ego's get in the way - "My mains cost so much money and they can reach down to 30hz !!" :confused::rolleyes: Big deal - you have subs with 2000+ watts of power and excursion that is ridiculous in comparison....

That is not to say that all subs are capable of playing way into the upper range - and also the higher you set the xover the more threat you encroach into the territory of being able to localize your subs... Which is why multiples is the best way to go... Start crossing over at 80 and work your way up if you can...

You can make a manual chart and use an SPL meter to graph the output with test tones at freqs starting a 20hz all the way up to 100hz in increments of 5hz and see what that graph looks like...... I would do this with setting your xover at 60hz, 70hz, 80hz, 90hz, 100hz and see which looks the best.

If you can post up the results of that we could help better choose the right xover for your room...
 
B

Beatmatcher247

Full Audioholic
It was strange though the subs just would not work in stereo until I set them to mains+subs.... then when I set it back to subs it continued working. It was the strangest thing.

Warp,

Do you recommend adjusting the crossover or smoothing out the peaks with the Behringer first... what's proper order? Doing both as many times as it takes until you get a graph that's desireable.
 
Warpdrv

Warpdrv

Audioholic Ninja
Ya know, I forgot to mention about having your subs placement with one very close to the LP and 1 right on the front sound stage, the sound of the subs will not be arriving at your ear at the same time - which can and will muddy up the sound of your bass.... were talking terms of miliseconds here but your ears/brain will interpret it as not quite right or muddy.... subs equidistant to the listening position (like you have now) is alot less complicated for setup.

Distance/time delay - needs to be applied to the sub that is closest to the listening position to match the arrival times to be equal.... just a little fyi....

Now on to your eq scenario.... With them setup in the same spot, btw - I would also try to set them up with one front left and one front right and see how that sounds as well... you should daisy chain the subs together (master/slave) and feed one sub signal and send the second sub signal off the back of the first. Then run ARO on the master sub which will handle both subs single band EQ, It will take out the largerst peaks and you can move forward from there.

Next step, Then I would be charting your response (or running sweeps) and setting EQ to the full band with the 1124. It would be nice to have an REW setup for this as there are plugins built right into REW for the 1124, which will give you a calculation based on your final sweeps, and tell you exactly what EQ you need to apply at what hz or center freq, with the proper Q or bandwidth adjustment.... Q (or bandwidth) - It gives you the ability to shape each individual EQ slider adjustment to allow you to control how much cut (or negative gain) as well as the width of bandwidth your are adjusting, basically either making it a sharp pinpoint adjustment at say 40hz, or you can make it a very gentle adjustment at 40hz spreading out the energy to a bit wider scale, say focused at 40hz but overlapping its energy to the freq's surrounding it - applying a more gentle cut say-6db at 40hz but spreading it out over a wider area to 35hz - 45hz depending on how wide you need it to be... much like the picture below. I hope that makes sense.
Here is a pic to understand what that looks like roughly.
The Q is labeled bandwidth - the term is somewhat interchangable.



That is the benefits of an REW setup.

But you can do this roughly close without REW and just taking those sweeps manually with a SPL meter and plotting the FR on paper with test tones in increments of every 3-5hz or something like that.... from 20hz up to 100hz should be more then adequate.
Your chart should look something like this - with your own plotted response not the blue line that is shown...
Remember you want your chart to be flat from 20hz all the way up to 100hz, unlike that ugly blue line in the pic.



You can get test tones here... http://www.realtraps.com/test-cd.htm

Nice reading there as well....

I would chart these responses at multiple xover settings - 60, 70, 80, 90 and 100hz to see what all the graphs look like in comparison to see which one looks the best and uses the least amount of EQ applied.... that is the true goal in EQing your subs, the least amount of EQ is truly the best scenario. It is a time consuming endeavor, but once you get it right, you'll never need to change it.

Remember that the SPL meter (settings on "C" Weighting) should always be in the same place, as any movement even inches would change the response + or - a few db's, so a Mic Stand should be used for this purpose.... putting the spl meter roughly at ear level and very close to the main listening position....
 
Last edited:
B

Beatmatcher247

Full Audioholic
I'm curious subwoofer gurus as to how you'd describe the sound of different kinds of subwoofer distortion. Would you say it sounds wobbly instead of rich and smooth? Is it simply not being able to accurately replicate a certain tone the way that it should?

Friend is coming over tomorrow and I'll finally be able get some sweeps up. Hopefully my Behringer gets here soon... if I don't like the results it might be time to do a couple of funkywave-boxed, LMS-5400 builds.
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
Cambridge Azure 650BD hdmi into prepro and sometimes my pc via optical output on soundcard (Creatuve X-Fi Platinum). 7005 does a good job of autoselecting the right surround mode for the right source... just wish it had an easy way to turn sub on. I don't really dig having my rear surrounds and centers going for music. . I thought it would be a no brainer that there is a mode for front left, front right, and subs, but I might be wrong... may have to just unplug the inputs on the amp for the other 3 channels... and set to a multichannel stereo mode. That'll do it for sure.
There IS an easy way to turn your sub on.

Set your mains as small.

They will get a full range signal if you're in source direct, otherwise they will be high passed with the rest of the signal sent to the subs.

Anyways, without knowing what frequencies are a problem area, there's nothing you can do.

Pick up a Dayton EMM-6 and an M-Audio MobilePre.
 
Warpdrv

Warpdrv

Audioholic Ninja
With the JL subs set to auto, increase the sub output on the 7005 and lower the volume on the subs themselves until they are at the right level with the spl meter for your normal listening level. That should help if they are not coming on as fast as they should. You'll be sending more signal level / voltage to wake up the subs better.

I had that problem with those auto on subs before. That usually does the trick.
 
Last edited:
B

Beatmatcher247

Full Audioholic
I just have mine on or off. Dont use the auto. The problem with the subs not being on instrereo mode was resolved. Had to set to main +sub for the lfe setting to kick it into working, then set it back to just sub to not double up on lfe. Sweeps will be ran and posted tonite. Takin notes from my way more technic friend than me.
 
B

Beatmatcher247

Full Audioholic






I don't know why my images show up as X's I linked them correctly. I've posted pics the same way before. anyway here is the links to the curves.
What am I doing wrong there? hmm


First is both stacked in front right corner.
Second is seperate corners.
Thirs is seperate corners, moved closer to the wall.

www.freeimagehosting.net/1878e
www.freeimagehosting.net/33c0a
www.freeimagehosting.net/18b90

Learned a lot today from my friend Scott. It appears the Behringer wouldn't do a whole lot for me at this point because most of my problems lie with Nulls which it cannot correct.

This looks like a vast improvement on the graph? Thoughts please gurus. What would you do at this point if this was your room?
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
This looks like a vast improvement on the graph? Thoughts please gurus. What would you do at this point if this was your room?
Buy two more subs, add some time alignment, and equalize them flat to within +/- 3db. Right now you're closer to a +/-7db window.

That 66hz node appears to be the floor/ceiling one. You might benefit from a really thick bass trap directly overhead from you. Treating corners might be another place to start. But the best way to address that node might be a sub raised above the ground.
 
Warpdrv

Warpdrv

Audioholic Ninja
What are you crossing your subs to the mains at.?
Did you try different crossover settings and sweeps.
 
B

Beatmatcher247

Full Audioholic
80 hz looked the best. Tried 90 ,100hz and those were worse
 

Latest posts

newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top