Subs :D

[mtrycrafts]

I guess I'm missing your point. You're telling me that manufacturers of subs "tune" their subs to just play one frequency? Either the 35hz you seem to prefer, or the 16hz Home Theaterists prefer?

Isn't that rather silly? I want a sub to play the entire range between 16hz and 80hz equally, accurately, and loudly without any artificial spikes at certain frequencies and without compromise.

And yes, I listen to organ music. And I listen to the 1812 Overture with real cannons.

Well, it is easy to miss a point that makes no sense and doesn't.

One only has to check the sub tests and numbers Tom Nousaine publishes. There is no problem with the 35Hz band with the so called HT subs, LOL
Best if you know whom to listen to as not all advice created equal. No different from opinions. disregard those silly opinions

 

[mtrycrafts]

No, manufacturers tune their subs to extend to a certain frequency. In order for SVS to get their subs to extend so low, they comprimise some "tightness" and accuracy in the upper bass. There are few subs that are very tight AND can match the SPL and depth of an SVS. The DD-1812 Signature comes to mind...

Oh, really? How are they not as accurate in the upper bands? Have some specs? What is tightness? A special belt?

 

[jaxvon]

I won't waste my time justifying this to you. Read some of the sub reviews on THIS SITE.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I won't waste my time justifying this to you. Read some of the sub reviews on THIS SITE.

Ah, those subjective reviews, right? Perhaps some bias entered the picture??? Or no perhaps about it. I just love it to death.

 

[mtrycrafts]

If I can find the disc around here, I'll post a pic of what a cannon looks like on vinyl, a pressing Telarc did some 25+ years ago of the 1812 Overture. You can literally see the cannon bangs in the groove of the vinyl.

You think they are as good as on the CD???

 

[thinkingHT]

Well "tightness" is just a world "trying" to describe differences you hear. I have a 2.1 system for my computer which i use to listen to Mp3s, I would describe that sub as being muddy (not detailed) and boomy, it certainly doesn't have the control - (tight tolerances in the way the cone is controlled) and its blatantly obvious after hearing it for less than a minute.

I do agree about the music and HT being the same as a sub sees it...why wouldn't it be? I guess most people consider a sub good for HT if it can go low and loud. I would consider a sub good for music if it can go low enough without loosing control, and I would also consider the same sub to be good for HT also, as long as it can hit 20Hz and still remain in control. I guess it boils down to individual preferences, if you want accurate HT bass or MORE HT bass and that would determine how you would classify a particular sub (good or bad) for the purpose.

 

[Shadow_Ferret]

That has been my point. If you have a good sub, one that many call a "music" sub, why wouldn't it play well for Home Theater? Is the low bass rumble of an organ any different from the low bass rumble of a helicopter?

I'm more music than home theater, in fact, all I have is 2 channel stereo (which I just hooked up to my TV last night and listened to the star cruiser rumble by in Star Wars IV. Cool!), I'm more into music than movies, but theoretically a sub that is "tight" and "controlled" for music should also be able to play the same things accurately for home theater.

The sub is getting electrical impulses that it translates into sound. Shouldn't matter if that sound is the timpanis in an orchestra or a machine gun.

 

[j_garcia]

Well "tightness" is just a world "trying" to describe differences you hear. I have a 2.1 system for my computer which i use to listen to Mp3s, I would describe that sub as being muddy (not detailed) and boomy, it certainly doesn't have the control - (tight tolerances in the way the cone is controlled) and its blatantly obvious after hearing it for less than a minute.

Could just be the MP3s... Lack of or sloppy bass is often the case with MP3 and the lower the bitrate, the worse it is.

That has been my point. If you have a good sub, one that many call a "music" sub, why wouldn't it play well for Home Theater? Is the low bass rumble of an organ any different from the low bass rumble of a helicopter?

Well, yes and no. Just like any other speaker, a given sub will have a characteristic sound to it. Though not as obvious as mids and highs, different subs do produce the same sound differently. Listen to 3 or 4 subs from different manufacturers in the same setup and this will be come very clear. However, I do agree that if a sub sounds good to you for music, as long as it goes low enough for your taste, it's most likely going to meet your needs for movies too.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Here's a song from Yes - the album 90125, that has some outstanding bass tracks that in my opinion shows where the differences are in great musical bass, and subs designed for HT. "Owner of a lonely heart." Most of the SVS subs playing this song didn't have that quick punch that other sealed enclosures had. They still sounded great with music, but there was a difference in timing. It's due to the huge box design as well as the port(s).

 

[Buckle-meister]

Most demanding 2 channel guys don't want a subwoofer in the mix.

Here here.

Regards

 

[9f9c7z]

Yeah, demanding 2-channel listeners are limited and inflexible like that. Us discerning 2-channel listeners, well, we are a little more choosy.

 

[Shadow_Ferret]

Don't you 2 channel guys like bass?

 

[Sheep]

I don't see a difference.

Subwoofers that excel in one area should excel in the other.

Although movies bass is usually lower, it doesn't mean the subwoofer has to be boomy, or one-notey. If you think a musical subwoofer is tight, but doesn't play as low, its the same for a movie, tight but doesn't play low. I don't know where the difference comes from. Your probably getting your own personal tastes in the mix. I like a nice quick sub for music, but I also like it a little exagerated for movies, gives you that aw factor. For the most acurrate performance of the origonal material on the disk, you have to have a tight subwoofer that can play low frequencies. This is not an easy feat by any means, so people then start catigorizing subwoofer designs and driver sizes for what they think it would perform best in, with a stereotype. Large drivers are for movies cause they are slow. Small drivers are quicker making them better for music. The truth is a large driver can be quick with a powerful enough amp, and a stronge enough spider, and a huge magnet assembly.

http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/loudspeakers/SVS_subsPB2-ISD_OutlawLFM-1_3.php

I think clint sees it the same way.


sheep

 

[Sheep]

thats it though...

You just proved my point. The SVS is tunable. If you run it in the 16hz mode all the time, yes its going to be worse in the 30's. But you can change it with the port plugs, back to 25hz or whatnot, and it will play the higher frequencies. The sub can play music, and movies well. You don't need 2 subwoofers to do this.

sheep

 

[Sheep]

my green light is always on, I forget to sign off.

I know they are different size boxes, and yes, maybe for different markets, but the thread is about a musical subwoofer, not being good in HT and vica versa (well, it kinda got hijacked). Svs made a subwoofer that can do both, velodyne has made subwoofers that do both (digital drive). Other companies have subwoofers that can play low and tight. People may like them a little boomy, as I stated above, but speakers are designed to play what the disk is saying, and you don't need two subwoofers to accomplish that.



sheep

 

[mtrycrafts]

Large drivers are for movies cause they are slow. Small drivers are quicker making them better for music. The truth is a large driver can be quick with a powerful enough amp, and a stronge enough spider, and a huge magnet assembly.
sheep

Huh?? If subs are fast, they are called tweeters.
No, subs will be as fast as necessary to reproduce the signal within their design.
This business about speed is audio voodoo.

 

[MacManNM]

No subs will be as fast as necessary to reproduce the signal within their design.

What are you talking about? How many have you had tonight? I guess all subs suck then?

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Huh?? If subs are fast, they are called tweeters.
No subs will be as fast as necessary to reproduce the signal within their design.
This business about speed is audio voodoo.

"Within their design." There's a lot of loose ends there. Plus, what do you mean by "no subs?" How can you tell if you're not using no subs?

I love audio vooodoooo , like The Rolling Stones Voodoo Lounge Tour. Great concert. Saw them at 3 Rivers Stadium. Filled to the gills. Loud as all helll, too. I remember that day well - ran my car into a stupid woman sitting in the middle of the parkway. She was stopped without brakelights or a turn signal. I skidded my new Mazda 626 into her bumber, blew out my airbag, and gave me a nice shiner. $11,000 worth of damage to my car. Stupid bee-atch. Still a good concert.

 

[WmAx]

What are you talking about? How many have you had tonight? I guess all subs suck then?

I noticed that the version you quoted had no comma after 'No'. But in the current version of his post, it is " No, ... ", which completely changes the meaning of the sentence. It appears he says that the subs will be as fast as is required to the signal they respond in this current version.

-Chris

 

[MacManNM]

"Within their design." There's a lot of loose ends there. Plus, what do you mean by "no subs?" How can you tell if you're not using no subs?

I love audio vooodoooo , like The Rolling Stones Voodoo Lounge Tour. Great concert. Saw them at 3 Rivers Stadium. Filled to the gills. Loud as all helll, too. I remember that day well - ran my car into a stupid woman sitting in the middle of the parkway. She was stopped without brakelights or a turn signal. I skidded my new Mazda 626 into her bumber, blew out my airbag, and gave me a nice shiner. $11,000 worth of damage to my car. Stupid bee-atch. Still a good concert.

Those no subs suck. Can't hear them. Vooooooodoooooo, rules. I saw that concert too Buck. Too much reverb though, that stadium rocked.