Sub bottoming out

[shadyJ]

Btw that waffling bottomed out sound was audible everywhere in the room even when I stood in locations where I know I have a null. It was coming from the sub.

And again, been using this sub a long time, never had these issues and listened to movies at the same volumes. It's yet another deviation in my sound quality after buying the new AVR.

Waffling sound? What did the 'bottoming out' sound like exactly? Because bottoming out a driver it isn't a waffling noise, that is for sure. Maybe your are dealing with another kind of problem?

 

[Halon451]

Might look into some more heavy hitting soundtracks and see what happens. Saw no particular comments as to issues with this soundtrack at data-bass.com in this thread at least. What master volume setting was this at? You raise sub level via avr? By how much?

Sub gain knob is set to about the 9 o'clock position, level in AVR is set to 0db, which is about 3-4db above where YPAO put it. I've always bumped it up a bit above the other levels but not too much. I don't really know where my master volume was at, but usually end up around -15db or so when I'm cranking movies.

 

[Halon451]

Waffling sound? What did the 'bottoming out' sound like exactly? Because bottoming out a driver it isn't a waffling noise, that is for sure. Maybe your are dealing with another kind of problem?

I don't know if waffling is the right adjective. It sounds like a sub bottoming out. Like I've heard on much cheaper subs trying to reproduce those heavy LFE sounds.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Waffling sound? What did the 'bottoming out' sound like exactly? Because bottoming out a driver it isn't a waffling noise, that is for sure. Maybe your are dealing with another kind of problem?

I was thinking this too.
Bottoming out sounds like a clap, or slap sound.
I think halon was hearing cone cry, or just plain distortion, but I'm wondering why the dsp didn't do anything.

 

[lovinthehd]

Sub gain knob is set to about the 9 o'clock position, level in AVR is set to 0db, which is about 3-4db above where YPAO put it. I've always bumped it up a bit above the other levels but not too much. I don't really know where my master volume was at, but usually end up around -15db or so when I'm cranking movies.

So YPAO is involved only as setting level, no eq? You leave the gain on the sub alone after YPAO and only adjust via avr was what I was asking....at -15 I can't imagine a sub of that capability having issues even with a 4dB bump unless it's got some odd eq boosting going on....and it doesn't sound like bottoming as you expand your description.

 

[shadyJ]

I don't know if waffling is the right adjective. It sounds like a sub bottoming out. Like I've heard on much cheaper subs trying to reproduce those heavy LFE sounds.

"waffling" sounds like a soft bottoming out, like if the spider was hitting a part of the motor. A hard bottom, when the former knocks into the back plate, sound like a hard clapping sound or even like a hammer striking sound- it is pretty loud. It can destroy the driver, and the SVS subs use fairly expensive 12"s, so you want to avoid damaging it.

 

[Halon451]

Okay yeah definitely not loud clapping sound just like it lost its clarity and power and hit kind of a muddy note during those moments.

 

[Halon451]

So I guess waffling is more correct and bottoming out is not.

 

[Halon451]

I was thinking this too.
Bottoming out sounds like a clap, or slap sound.
I think halon was hearing cone cry, or just plain distortion, but I'm wondering why the dsp didn't do anything.

So how do I fix this? I'm not over driving my sub level by any means nor am I cranking the volume up to window shattering levels. I can turn my sub level down but then I'll lose the oomph I like. These are settings I've used for years with no issues.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Even though it's older, I'd still email Ed Mullen at svs. He's brilliant, and more than willing to help, and should have a good idea of what's going on.
The only anomaly I can think of is ypao tried to boost a null, and the sub is responding accordingly. Mode mills can't be boosted like phase nulls and if ypao confused them, it may have used a big spl boost. Sorry, I'm multitasking and probably should wait until I can focus but wanted to respond.

 

[Halon451]

Even though it's older, I'd still email Ed Mullen at svs. He's brilliant, and more than willing to help, and should have a good idea of what's going on.
The only anomaly I can think of is ypao tried to boost a null, and the sub is responding accordingly. Mode mills can't be boosted like phase nulls and if ypao confused them, it may have used a big spl boost. Sorry, I'm multitasking and probably should wait until I can focus but wanted to respond.

Wouldn't that have shown up as an EQ correction in the AVR though? It doesn't appear YPAO did anything at all with the sub except set its distance and level.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Wouldn't that have shown up as an EQ correction in the AVR though? It doesn't appear YPAO did anything at all with the sub except set its distance and level.

No idea. I know mcacc does, and I like the presets and manual EQ of mcacc. Ever run ypao.

 

[lovinthehd]

What graphic tool does the avr have to indicate eq? One for eq as applied or one as target?

 

[Halon451]

No idea. I know mcacc does, and I like the presets and manual EQ of mcacc. Ever run ypao.

Yep... I've beat that horse dead on other threads about my preference of MCACC over all these others lol. It always dialed in my sub very well. Could be the reason I'm having issues now.

 

[Halon451]

What graphic tool does the avr have to indicate eq? One for eq as applied or one as target?

Not sure I understand the question but I'll explain what I see and you can infer the answer from it I suppose. So, I'm looking at the PEQ curves when I go into the YPAO manual settings menu. It shows all the curves and EQ corrections applied for each channel individually. There is one for the sub whose frequency range is from 20 Hz to somewhere around 200Hz or so (I think, not at home to check right now). Anyway, it's just a standard EQ curve showing boosts and cuts and their relative Q values. For the sub, it shows a high boost of about 4-5 db with a medium Q up around the 130-140Hz area but that is well beyond my crossover value so not sure it's really doing anything at all. Everything below 80Hz is just flat and shows no correction has been applied at all.

Hopefully that answers your question.

 

[Halon451]

I just found this one the web so it is NOT a screenshot of my actual curve, but this is what the screen looks like to give you a better idea.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

So on your GUI, all the trims for sub frequencies are at 0? That's seems pretty odd.

 

[Halon451]

So on your GUI, all the trims for sub frequencies are at 0? That's seems pretty odd.

Yup, that's why it appears YPAO did nothing but set distance and level.

 

[Halon451]

I may contact Yamaha on this bc it does seem odd. It boosted a higher frequency above my crossover but didn't do anything where it actually matters. It set trims in every band for all other speakers.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Seems weird to me too. Did you try Ed?