Stereophile

[haraldo]

This guy always gave me the creeps, doesn't he look like Jethro? I wonder what he did to Ellie Mae, Granny and Uncle Jed?

I really like the hairstyle, you just have to trust a guy with such a haircut

 

[MinusTheBear]

I CAN'T believe I missed this. Actually I can because I have never heard of stereophile before and in all honesty will never care about this magazine after reading this thread. I cannot believe a representative from this company posted such a pompus, arrogant and insulting reply to somones concern with this magazine and in a public forum mind you. These concerns where from a PAYING customer, not some troll bashing the magazine. I agree with some other posters, they can be added to the infamous "others" and they can be all called the Terrible Threes.

 

[haraldo]

I CAN'T believe I missed this. Actually I can because I have never heard of stereophile before and in all honesty will never care about this magazine after reading this thread. I cannot believe a representative from this company posted such a pompus, arrogant and insulting reply to somones concern with this magazine and in a public forum mind you. These concerns where from a PAYING customer, not some troll bashing the magazine. I agree with some other posters, they can be added to the infamous "others" and they can be all called the Terrible Threes.

You sound like a really good guy

 

[mudrummer99]

I CAN'T believe I missed this. Actually I can because I have never heard of stereophile before and in all honesty will never care about this magazine after reading this thread. I cannot believe a representative from this company posted such a pompus, arrogant and insulting reply to somones concern with this magazine and in a public forum mind you. These concerns where from a PAYING customer, not some troll bashing the magazine. I agree with some other posters, they can be added to the infamous "others" and they can be all called the Terrible Threes.

How can you not believe that he would do this? Pick up an issue, he does this to paying subscribers every month. It's not only a public forum, but a professional publication. That's just the way he rolls. I still enjoy Stereophile and think in general their hearts are in the right place, but like I said in my original reply to Mr. Fremer, I would like to see a more real life representation of product reviews. As of the last year and a half (about the amount of time I've been reading this mag) the distribution of entry level products (read: affordable) and high-end, cost no object equipment is quite skewed.

Mike

 

[rmk]

Your absouletly right, I didn't expound on what I was going after very well. My main focus was on certain hi-fi magazines objective "reviews" of snake oil products with no meaningful measurements whatsoever.

Take this quote used to describe some $40,000 worth of cables for example:

"Taken together, these unusual interconnect, loudspeaker, and AC cables brought a new measure of spaciousness, scale, smoothness, heretofore unimagined detail, and overall musical ease and naturalness to my music system. And they did it while sounding neither dull nor bright—just right."

The review goes on to explain the differences he remembers from other cables in the past. In the end, the only measurements used where of the actual weight and length of the cables.

It would be like if the auto mags were to write a two-page review of the new Nissan GT-R when it was first released and not measure the 1/4 time, HP/TQ, 70-0 brake test, etc. What true car guy is going to fork over the $70,000+ for a high performance car without knowing the facts? Because mister editor said it was fast, handled great and got you the women? Not this hombre.

I kinda hate to get involved in this thread as I read and like Sterophile but take it with the same grain of salt approach I do with every audio product publication. What I like about Stereophile reviews is that the reviewers bring the products into their homes, usually set them up properly and live with them for a while before commenting. Those comments are usually comparative to their reference systems and those always contain "high end" gear. Whats not to like about that? That subjective stuff has as much value to me as the charts and graphs which by the way, Stereophile almost always includes.

I see and respect your point on measurable results Matt, but I own a $70K+ high performance vehicle and I did some reading and research before purchasing. But for me, the proof was in the driving and I drove a lot of them before I wrote the check.

Fremers comments were defensive and I suppose to some here, offensive. My suggestion to all is to get over it.

 

[MinusTheBear]

What I don't get is, if representatives take time to respond in a public forum why not take the criticism presented and try to spin it into gold. Thousands of people read these threads and all this guy has done is bring negative publicity to his employer.

 

[haraldo]

What I don't get is, if representatives take time to respond in a public forum why not take the criticism presented and try to spin it into gold. Thousands of people read these threads and all this guy has done is bring negative publicity to his employer.

This attitude is damaging to the publication, perhaps it's an idea to make Primedia, the owners of Stereophile aware of this thread. If for no other purpose than to stop Mikey's unacceptable behavior.

 

[Halon451]

My suggestion to all is to get over it.

I've certainly got nothing to 'get over' and I can assure you won't catch me losing any sleep over this. He demonstrated himself to be an a$$ and got called on it, plain and simple.

 

[haraldo]

I've certainly got nothing to 'get over' and I can assure you won't catch me losing any sleep over this. He demonstrated himself to be an a$$ and got called on it, plain and simple.

I totally agree.... Someone with no credibility cannot get to me

But it's not that simple, people out there may call for bad decisions based on bad advice from Fremer and others, and that's a totally different matter though, therefore this is important !

Actually I have seen readers letters in other magazines from people buying expensive equipment solely on advice from reputable reviewers, without even listening properly before buying. I really hope this is not a common practice, certainly not amongst the members in this forum, but reading about this scares me....

 

[Halon451]

I totally agree.... Someone with no credibility cannot get to me

But it's not that simple, people out there may call for bad decisions based on bad advice from Fremer and others, and that's a totally different matter though, therefore this is important !

Actually I have seen readers letters in other magazines from people buying expensive equipment solely on advice from reputable reviewers, without even listening properly before buying. I really hope this is not a common practice, certainly not amongst the members in this forum, but reading about this scares me....

Sure, I'll give you that. But then again, it's up to personal accountability for your own actions (or in this case, those you speak of) - if they make foolish decisions, they're the ones that have to live with the consequences. Maybe I'm not as altruistic in my thinking as yourself on this one, but I did find it incredulous Fremer's remarks when he posted. Hopefully he's somewhere lurking and continuing to read this thread....

As far as I'm concerned, aside from the occasional troll, a place like this is worth its weight in gold when you need advice or opinions, nobody here is on anyone's payroll to be a mouthpiece for any particular brand or company. Maybe not 100%, but close enough to being pure and honest as I think it gets. Heated discussions arise, but usually an indication of people's passions toward this hobby.

Fremer is just a jerk. You know what they say - walks like a duck, quacks like a duck.....

 

[haraldo]

You know what they say - walks like a duck, quacks like a duck.....

Guess I'm just waiting for the men wearing white jackets to start their work

Not all reviewers are bad though... I recall Shaun Buettner who has done some reviews for The Absolute sound and the Audio Perfectionist. I would actually possibly trust this guy. He made some very unfavorable reviews. He Thrashed some Verity speaker in a review because, although it was good, it's way too expensive and he mentioned that you would get better performance for a fraction at a cost from the Thiel CS2.4. Now that's what I call a review!
That means that when he makes a positive review, you would actually trust that this is his opinion and not the one that suits the magazine

And the guys from Verity audio reply was of disgust in manufacturer's remarks

Not that I particularly enjoy bad reviews, but I like honest reviews!!

 

[Halon451]

Guess I'm just waiting for the men wearing white jackets to start their work

Not all reviewers are bad though... I recall Shaun Buettner who has done some reviews for The Absolute sound and the Audio Perfectionist. I would actually possibly trust this guy. He made some very unfavorable reviews. He Thrashed some Verity speaker in a review because, although it was good, it's way too expensive and he mentioned that you would get better performance for a fraction at a cost from the Thiel CS2.4. Now that's what I call a review!
That means that when he makes a positive review, you would actually trust that this is his opinion and not the one that suits the magazine

And the guys from Verity audio reply was of disgust in manufacturer's remarks

Not that I particularly enjoy bad reviews, but I like honest reviews!!

Well, I think you have to take any reviewer of merchandise, goods or products for exactly what it is - an opinion. Some "lower-end" (excuse me) magazines I have picked up over the years have offered measurable data from each system component (Home Theater magazine, for one), along with the reviewer's opinions on its overall performance when all is said and done - entirely subjective, data or no data as the numbers will not always indicate what pleases whom. Honesty and purity? Hell, this is business man, and there are guys who know how to play the game and there are those who do their best to refute the oft-hyped claims pertaining to snake oil tactics, charms and other wizardry, others who promote it, and still others who rally behind certain products out of sheer brand loyalty, all of which can lead the average person into profound befuddlement as to what to believe.

The best advice I see on this forum are those who tell people to always when possible get out there and test/listen to the stuff yourself. You can't beat that with a stick, damn the magazines. Let the snobs eat their proverbial cake.

 

[mouettus]

Michael Fremer is a girly-man. Technoviking will tie him up with silver Monster cables and make him scream while reading poetry by Bob Harley.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwsntHcWiy4

HAHAHAHAHA I would thank you 3 times for that only post if I could lol. Just stare at my avatar and imagine Fremer just in front of him lol.

Why does everytime a subject that causes controversy has to be closed down? Get over it is not a way to go in life. Why not get to the bottom of the well while we're at it?! It's an audio site and Stereovile is a part of this subject. IMO, I think it is important to come up with those conversations because as I just saw a 30K$ 2-ch system yesterday and it was normal people (not that rich) who could've spent their money elsewhere and still achieve the same results.

Yeah yeah I know... fool.... money... parted!

 

[haraldo]

Guess I'm throwing out a torch of fire now

If you look at these "Watch Dog" by Mr Richard Hardesty of the Audio Perfectionist Journal
Hardesty and Mr Fremer + Atkinson have never been the best friends.

Hardesty has written a number of letters to Stereophile with comments and suggestions, they end up being cut because they are too critical to Stereophile

There are many in this forum that will disagree with Mr Hardesty and his opinions, and that's fine, that's not really the point of this post. Mr Hardesty is an advocate of time coherent , phase perfect speakers... People may disagree and that's fine.

I'm posting this because these letters IMHO raises some interesting questions. At least it raises serious concerns on Sterephile attitude and balance (we all know about that, still) and I think they're a good read.....

http://www.audioperfectionist.com/pages/watchdog.html

Pay particular attention to the following:

• Watch Dog #21 (The Wilson Maxx) 151k PDF file

• Hate Mail: Postscript to Watch Dog #21, email messages from Giolas/Wilson and Fremer/Stereophile. 92k PDF file

• Watch Dog #25 (Stereophile Review of Vandersteen Quatro Wood Loudspeakers.) 102k PDF file

Basically Mr Hardesty basically claims some reviews to be like cut&paste from the manufacturers sales brochures.

-H

 

[mouettus]

Basically Mr Hardesty basically claims some reviews to be like cut&paste from the manufacturers sales brochures.

-H

Actually I see some reviews over the net that could apply to any audio product out there

such as: "it really widens the sound, it really makes it less compressed and more easy to listen. The puches are more punchy" so on so forth.

 

[haraldo]

"it really widens the sound"

I have always looked for a cable that widens the sound

 

[markw]

Heck, that's easy.

I have always looked for a cable that widens the sound

Just make 'em longer and put more space between the speakers.

...just make sure the cables are approved by stereopile.

 

[haraldo]

Haraldo, you sound like a very bitter guy.

If you can't remember the last time I reviewed an inexpensive turntable, or a budget priced phono preamplifier or an inexpensive cartridge you must have Alzheimers.

I have no problems with my ego. It's quite healthy and therefore my stereo system, my car, my watch (etc.) are not involved in my self worth. As for my "other part," it's been put to extremely good use over the years. Your suggestion that somehow I compensate for feelings of penile inadequacy with audio gear is an act of transparent projection I find extremely amusing.

If you enjoyed the recent Vandersteen review, consider that I reviewed the original Quattro, which is less expensive. But you're not likely to because you have some kind of axe to grind, so grind away oblivious to reality.

Stereophile reviews products in all price categories. I review products in all price categories. I reviewed a $400+ USB based Pro-Ject turntable in the last issue. I just finished up a review of an inexpensive Rega P3-24 turntable. It's cheap and good--for the money. So whatever you're talking about is exiting from you butt.

I read the car magazines and when they cover Ferraris, and Porsches and Maseratis, people tend to enjoy the reviews. It's only in audio that we end up with so many jealous wankers and where so many try to level the playing field by claiming "it all sounds the same," and that when you spend more you get less.

Grow up, audio is no different than food, wine, cars, clothes, you name it. Unfortunately, usually, the more you pay, the better the quality. That's a fact of life. I can't afford a Ferrari or a Maserati but I'm not a bitter dweeb who needs to rationalize that I can't afford one by claiming it's no better than the car that I can afford.

If you think high performance audio is a "rip-off," or don't understand what goes into building and marketing limited edition, high performance audio gear, then by all means stop reading Stereophile, get some plastic speakers, some lamp cord, an MP3 player and have a blast! Stereophile is a magazine about high performance (not necessarily high priced) audio.

-Michael Fremer
senior contributing editor, Stereophile

PS: If I've offended anyone, it's been my pleasure. CHEERS!

Anybody heard anything from the grumpy guy.... looking at readers letters from Stereophile, I have the impression that statements like these are quite frequent from this side

Criticism is tough, especially when it's fair

And he never ever answered to anything raised by this forum, just calling names

 

[MatthewB.]

I feel that Sterophile was the only magazine I ever regreted subscribing to. I am an average Joe with some higher end tastes. I drive a BMW because of the higher end tastes, but bought it used because I am also smart on how I spend that money. After I subscribed I started to get a feel on the load of B.S. that fills it's pages. Constant ads that promote uber expensive cables (Pear cables anyone, anyone? ) How people can spend 25,000 on speaker cables is just beyond me.
I happily subscribe to HTMagazine and Sound and Vision for my budget and Electronic House for ideas on how to make that average gear look nice. Not to say my gear is crap, I just know how to make my middle of the road gear (Denon 3808, DefTech BP7001's and so on) work their best.

 

[MatthewB.]

Oh yeah one more thing. If I ever start spending 20,000 on a turntable, 40,000 on speakers and 100,000 on a preamp and amp, then I surely need my friggin head examined.
I have been to forum members houses where the total cost of gear was less than 10,000 and sounded way better than systems I have heard that cost 50,000 plus. I'd rather spend a few hundred on room acoustics for improvement than tens of thousands on snake oil treatment.