Stereo Amp vs Power Amp

L

lifesajourney

Audiophyte
Hi,

On a separate thread I asked for some advise on setting up my HT. But if I want my HT to weigh more onto producing better music, then does it mean I need a get a source with a good DAC? I see some threads talking about adding on a stereo amp with HT bypass & some proposing to just add on a power amp. What is the difference between these 2? Which of this will actually improve the sound quality / clarity?
 
killdozzer

killdozzer

Audioholic Field Marshall
As long as your HT system is not lacking in power, or is somehow compromised, no SQ will come from power amp or stereo amp (these are interchangeable terms - stereo is 2ch and power amp can be 2ch).

You should have a good DAC, but be careful as you may verywell already have it. You have to provide info on what you're using.

If your main speakers, LR, the ones you're using for music, lack power, you may experience increase in SQ by using a more powerful amp. If you need something like this, some members ad a 2ch power amp into their system to be used for main speakers.

Be careful not to spend too much money chasing something unnecessary.

Also, it is very important for you to first determine whether something is bothering you in your SQ. What are you trying to fix? If the answer is nothing or I don't know, maybe just leave it until you detect something to be a genuine obstacle in your enjoyment.

kd
 
L

lifesajourney

Audiophyte
@killedozzer, I am looking to get either the Cambridge CXNv2 or the Audiolab 6000N Play
 
killdozzer

killdozzer

Audioholic Field Marshall
@killedozzer, I am looking to get either the Cambridge CXNv2 or the Audiolab 6000N Play
Just don't rush your decisions. I've read your other post and I see you won't even go to so called reference levels, but even if you wanted to, you could do it using your HT system for 2ch music. Depending what speakers you end up with, you may not need the Cambridge or Audiolab.

Since you know what you'll use the system for, next you need to decide on your speakers. Be somewhat less prone to compromises when it comes to speakers. They need to be good.

Having glass all along one side and no wall on the other is not ideal, but you can still get a decent performance all things considered.

Have you already though about speakers? Something you heard and liked?
 
killdozzer

killdozzer

Audioholic Field Marshall
Don't fret over the height of the speakers. It's not, as someone told you, half the height of your appartment.

It's just that since tweeters tend to be more directional it is a good idea to have them close to you ear height when you're seated in your listening position. There are far more important properties than the height.

What you're looking at?
 
L

lifesajourney

Audiophyte
Just don't rush your decisions. I've read your other post and I see you won't even go to so called reference levels, but even if you wanted to, you could do it using your HT system for 2ch music. Depending what speakers you end up with, you may not need the Cambridge or Audiolab.

Since you know what you'll use the system for, next you need to decide on your speakers. Be somewhat less prone to compromises when it comes to speakers. They need to be good.

Having glass all along one side and no wall on the other is not ideal, but you can still get a decent performance all things considered.

Have you already though about speakers? Something you heard and liked?
There are so many speakers out there...I just dont know where to start...
 
killdozzer

killdozzer

Audioholic Field Marshall
There are so many speakers out there...I just dont know where to start...
Final choice no one else can do but you. You have to audition speakers. If KL stands for Kuala Lumpur you first have to tell me what Kuala stands for? :D

Quick searc tells me you have Denon, Yamah, Elac, KEF, XTZ, Onkyo, Parasound, DALI...
Some bargains

Go, visit these shops, listen, compare prices and your satisfaction. Most of the brands I listed are decent and you can find some good stuff that don't cost an arm and a leg.

Steer clear of magical promises (people who say room doesn't matter, AVRs are not for stereo music, you should buy special DAC for 1.5k dollars, there's no good speaker under few k dollars, you have to have expensive cables, etc.) Don't rush your purchase.

Your room is not big and you shouldn't have problems finding good speakers for both HT and music and a good Denon AVR can do both of those tasks very, very good. (Certainly as good as Audiolab or Cambridge).
 
killdozzer

killdozzer

Audioholic Field Marshall
Go and make it fun, enjoy! Listen to music, watch movies.

Trust me, my first advice here was also to start with speakers and audition them, so I went around the city and visited 8-10 shops where I listened to anyhtng I could.
 
killdozzer

killdozzer

Audioholic Field Marshall
How about starting by staying in ONE thread
@lifesajourney and yes, take advice from members here. You don't need a new thread for every question or change of opinion. Choose one and ask away, if people here can help you, they will. Just be patient. All they do here is out of goodness of their hearts.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
If I want my HT to weigh more onto producing better music, then does it mean I need a get a source with a good DAC?
No. You do not need a separate DAC, separate preamp, separate pre-pro, separate amp, or high-end media player to get better sound quality for music.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
Hi,

On a separate thread I asked for some advise on setting up my HT. But if I want my HT to weigh more onto producing better music, then does it mean I need a get a source with a good DAC? I see some threads talking about adding on a stereo amp with HT bypass & some proposing to just add on a power amp. What is the difference between these 2? Which of this will actually improve the sound quality / clarity?
It means getting the best speakers you can afford and the appropriate power to drive them. As long as you have sufficient power the quality of your speakers is far more important than focusing on minute differences in performance between DACs, amps and receivers that are all in the inaudible range to begin with. I think 75%/25% is a good rule of thumb when budgeting. 75% into the speakers and subs, 25% into everything else to drive them.
 
Clorian

Clorian

Audiophyte
Just my two cents,

use a Pioneer Elite VSX82-TXS 7.1 AVR as the centerpiece in my system. I bi-wire and bi-amp my front left and right speakers (B&W DM603 s3), and the rest of the speakers (B&W LCR600 for the center channel and NHT 1.3As for the rear surrounds) all get one channel of amplification each. The receiver is rated at 130 wpc, all channels driven (there's a good review of its power output here: http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/receivers/pioneer-vsx-82txs/measurements-analysis)...

I run my speakers set at small, but have the crossover point set at 50 Hz instead of the THX recommended 80 Hz. I do have a beast of a subwoofer, an Earthquake SuperNova V-15 which is fed everything below 50 Hz by my AVR's active crossover.

Anyhow, I tend to listen to music in stereo, if that's the way it was recorded, or multichannel if that's the way it was recorded, and I'll say this: this system sounds amazing whether it's in stereo or multi-channel, or whether I'm listening to vinyl or digital music.

With my system going, I can hit amazing volume levels with all the detail, depth, and dynamics. It's crazy fun and often leaves me sitting there, grinning like an idiot. Imaging is amazing. I just picked up a new reprint of Santana Abraxas on vinyl, and its unbelievably good. Or Hugh Masekela's Hope album on 12-inch 45 RPM 180 gram vinyl disks..... Or Pink Floyd's DSotM on multi-channel SACD.... Crazy... Crystal clear.

I have my old Sansui G-4700 https://stereodamage.com/top-5-power-amp-for-axe-fx-tested-and-reviews/ in another room, hooked up to a nice pair of Mirage speakers (I forget the actual model), and it's nice and musical, but it doesn't have near the detail or depth or dynamics that my main system has. It's not even a fair comparison to even attempt to make.

I love my old Sansui. I bought it in September of my senior year in high school, but it was never anything like that Pioneer Elite AVR, even in its wildest dreams.

So, before you go out and get a new receiver, consider new speakers. Look for speakers you can bi-wire and bi-amp (that's almost a fetish for the designers at B&W). I'm sure your Denon should be able to accommodate that. Usually you can configure this stuff through the system's set-up menu.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
Just my two cents,

use a Pioneer Elite VSX82-TXS 7.1 AVR as the centerpiece in my system. I bi-wire and bi-amp my front left and right speakers (B&W DM603 s3), and the rest of the speakers (B&W LCR600 for the center channel and NHT 1.3As for the rear surrounds) all get one channel of amplification each. The receiver is rated at 130 wpc, all channels driven (there's a good review of its power output here: http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/receivers/pioneer-vsx-82txs/measurements-analysis)...

I run my speakers set at small, but have the crossover point set at 50 Hz instead of the THX recommended 80 Hz. I do have a beast of a subwoofer, an Earthquake SuperNova V-15 which is fed everything below 50 Hz by my AVR's active crossover.

Anyhow, I tend to listen to music in stereo, if that's the way it was recorded, or multichannel if that's the way it was recorded, and I'll say this: this system sounds amazing whether it's in stereo or multi-channel, or whether I'm listening to vinyl or digital music.

With my system going, I can hit amazing volume levels with all the detail, depth, and dynamics. It's crazy fun and often leaves me sitting there, grinning like an idiot. Imaging is amazing. I just picked up a new reprint of Santana Abraxas on vinyl, and its unbelievably good. Or Hugh Masekela's Hope album on 12-inch 45 RPM 180 gram vinyl disks..... Or Pink Floyd's DSotM on multi-channel SACD.... Crazy... Crystal clear.

I have my old Sansui G-4700 https://stereodamage.com/top-5-power-amp-for-axe-fx-tested-and-reviews/ in another room, hooked up to a nice pair of Mirage speakers (I forget the actual model), and it's nice and musical, but it doesn't have near the detail or depth or dynamics that my main system has. It's not even a fair comparison to even attempt to make.

I love my old Sansui. I bought it in September of my senior year in high school, but it was never anything like that Pioneer Elite AVR, even in its wildest dreams.

So, before you go out and get a new receiver, consider new speakers. Look for speakers you can bi-wire and bi-amp (that's almost a fetish for the designers at B&W). I'm sure your Denon should be able to accommodate that. Usually you can configure this stuff through the system's set-up menu.
How do you both bi-wire and passively bi-amp your speakers at the same time? I wouldn't bother with either in any case....
 
Gmoney

Gmoney

Audioholic Samurai
Hi,

On a separate thread I asked for some advise on setting up my HT. But if I want my HT to weigh more onto producing better music, then does it mean I need a get a source with a good DAC? I see some threads talking about adding on a stereo amp with HT bypass & some proposing to just add on a power amp. What is the difference between these 2? Which of this will actually improve the sound quality / clarity?
The one that has the higher Slew rate.
 
Gmoney

Gmoney

Audioholic Samurai
There are so many speakers out there...I just dont know where to start...
Start by doing your Own Research. Go find a BestBuy or audio/video store do a look see Listening session if possible. Jump online google what your looking for in gear or speaker's. Read up as much as possible. Take any Suggestions or advice on Any forum with a grain of salt.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Just my two cents,

use a Pioneer Elite VSX82-TXS 7.1 AVR as the centerpiece in my system. I bi-wire and bi-amp my front left and right speakers (B&W DM603 s3), and the rest of the speakers (B&W LCR600 for the center channel and NHT 1.3As for the rear surrounds) all get one channel of amplification each. The receiver is rated at 130 wpc, all channels driven (there's a good review of its power output here: http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/receivers/pioneer-vsx-82txs/measurements-analysis)...

I run my speakers set at small, but have the crossover point set at 50 Hz instead of the THX recommended 80 Hz. I do have a beast of a subwoofer, an Earthquake SuperNova V-15 which is fed everything below 50 Hz by my AVR's active crossover.

Anyhow, I tend to listen to music in stereo, if that's the way it was recorded, or multichannel if that's the way it was recorded, and I'll say this: this system sounds amazing whether it's in stereo or multi-channel, or whether I'm listening to vinyl or digital music.

With my system going, I can hit amazing volume levels with all the detail, depth, and dynamics. It's crazy fun and often leaves me sitting there, grinning like an idiot. Imaging is amazing. I just picked up a new reprint of Santana Abraxas on vinyl, and its unbelievably good. Or Hugh Masekela's Hope album on 12-inch 45 RPM 180 gram vinyl disks..... Or Pink Floyd's DSotM on multi-channel SACD.... Crazy... Crystal clear.

I have my old Sansui G-4700 https://stereodamage.com/top-5-power-amp-for-axe-fx-tested-and-reviews/ in another room, hooked up to a nice pair of Mirage speakers (I forget the actual model), and it's nice and musical, but it doesn't have near the detail or depth or dynamics that my main system has. It's not even a fair comparison to even attempt to make.

I love my old Sansui. I bought it in September of my senior year in high school, but it was never anything like that Pioneer Elite AVR, even in its wildest dreams.

So, before you go out and get a new receiver, consider new speakers. Look for speakers you can bi-wire and bi-amp (that's almost a fetish for the designers at B&W). I'm sure your Denon should be able to accommodate that. Usually you can configure this stuff through the system's set-up menu.
Welcome to Audioholics!

I appreciate your sharing your experience; however, you need to think a bit about what you are actually saying, which is essentially:
Pioneer Elite VSX82-TXS 7.1 AVR system in room A with speakers X and a subwoofer outperforms Sansui G-4700 in room B with speakers Y (no sub).

You have coached this as if it is a useful comparison of receivers/amplification; however, most of us would maintain that changing the room (or maybe I should say the acoustics associated with the room) and changing the speakers (and adding a sub) are going to change sound quality much more than changing an amp ever would (assuming the amp is not being driven beyond its capability).

Of course, when an amplifier over 40 years old is involved, you also have the concern of components no longer performing to their design specification.
I have an old Sansui AU-717 integrated amp. The capacitors have leaked over the years due to a glue they used to affix them that turned out to become acidic over time, so you might check around the bottom of your capacitors for corrosion/leakage. Hopefully they used a different glue on your unit. It cost me about $600 to get my amp restored to capability (actually some components were upgraded in the process), but like you, I have too much history to toss it!

But my main point is the differences in sound between your systems (assuming amps are performing properly) are much, much more likely to be due to speakers and room acoustics rather than attributing them to the amps.
 

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