Statement about amps

ATLAudio

ATLAudio

Full Audioholic
Ratings
204 5
#1
I believe that it should not cost a premium for a manufacturer to build, and market, or for a customer to buy a 100w 2 channel 4 ohm stable amp, that is sonically neutral and transparent from the source material.

Change my mind

Considerations...

*And yes, since I don't believe that this above claim is in violation of any scientific laws, or well accepted theories, my mind can certainly be changed.*

*While outside my scope, reliability is important so the amp must be able to last a reasonable life expectancy; let's say 10-15 years of residential (non-pro application) use.*
 
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John Parks

John Parks

Audioholic
Ratings
116 1 1
#2
Isn't... Isn't that a statement, not a question? I just want to be sure none attempts to change your mind. ;)

*no one
 
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J

JazzRock

Audiophyte
#4
It's cheap and easy for a manufacturer to build an amp that is sonically neutral and transparent from the source material.

Change my mind
If you are serious in your statement, hence belief, not sure anyone can. Besides....much more than a neutral sound that makes a high end amps perform well.
 
Out-Of-Phase

Out-Of-Phase

Senior Audioholic
Ratings
268 1 2
#5
It's cheap and easy for a manufacturer to build an amp that is sonically neutral and transparent from the source material.

Change my mind
I don't think some of those expensive bling amplifier companies are listening.
 
S

Steve81

Moderator
Ratings
2,879 18
#8
It's cheap and easy for a manufacturer to build an amp that is sonically neutral and transparent from the source material.
Maybe, depends on the conditions we're putting on this amp. How much power, into what kind of load? How many amplifier channels are we putting into a single chassis? Is that chassis shared (i.e. an AVR) or dedicated? How large and heavy is the final product allowed to be? Depending on the answers to those questions, costs and engineering effort may be minor...or not.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
4,726 7 1
#9
Maybe, depends on the conditions we're putting on this amp. How much power, into what kind of load? How many amplifier channels are we putting into a single chassis? Is that chassis shared (i.e. an AVR) or dedicated? How large and heavy is the final product allowed to be? Depending on the answers to those questions, costs and engineering effort may be minor...or not.
All of that plus also the question of how much $ is cheap, example: less than $X per transparent watt into 4 ohms total watt?
 
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highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Warlord
Ratings
2,698 9 4
#10
All of that plus also the question of how much $ is cheap, example: less than $X/total watt?
Power consumption or output?

This could be a good test for determining the effect on cost, caused by the marketing department.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Seriously, I have no life.
Ratings
6,778 16 6
#11
How much cheap cheese (ugly aesthetics) are you willing to accept? :D

How many amps are you willing to stack and plug?

What kind of specs are you willing to accept? SNR 100dBA vs 120dBA? Crosstalk 50dB vs 100dB?

What kind of name/reputation (pride of ownership) are you willing to accept?

Some people want ATI (or their many clones),Parasound, Bryston, Anthem, Adcom, etc. It makes them feel good or proud to own them.

Some people will never want to own brands like Emotiva, Outlaw, Monoprice, Crown and other pro amps. It's their money. Nothing wrong with their choices.

Same reason as some people will always want to own "separates" like Pre-pros, preamps, etc., instead of AVRs.

But as already asked, how much is "cheap"?

Crown and Yamaha pro amps?

Are the Emotiva amps cheap? :D
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic General
Ratings
569 1
#12
How much cheap cheese (ugly aesthetics) are you willing to accept? :D

How many amps are you willing to stack and plug?

What kind of specs are you willing to accept? SNR 100dBA vs 120dBA? Crosstalk 50dB vs 100dB?

What kind of name/reputation (pride of ownership) are you willing to accept?

Some people want ATI (or their many clones),Parasound, Bryston, Anthem, Adcom, etc. It makes them feel good or proud to own them.

Some people will never want to own brands like Emotiva, Outlaw, Monoprice, Crown and other pro amps. It's their money. Nothing wrong with their choices.

Same reason as some people will always want to own "separates" like Pre-pros, preamps, etc., instead of AVRs.

But as already asked, how much is "cheap"?

Crown and Yamaha pro amps?

Are the Emotiva amps cheap? :D
Is that why you got all those lovely ATI amps STACKED in your setup my friend? For the record I'm a cheapo when I can get away with it but I would love to own your amp set up. So I guess that kind off answers the statement the OP posted kind off. I guess the best way I'd answer it is S@$! I wish they would make these things f@$!in cheap. Lol :D And not so damn heavy either :D
 
ATLAudio

ATLAudio

Full Audioholic
Ratings
204 5
#15
How much cheap cheese (ugly aesthetics) are you willing to accept? :D

How many amps are you willing to stack and plug?

What kind of specs are you willing to accept? SNR 100dBA vs 120dBA? Crosstalk 50dB vs 100dB?

What kind of name/reputation (pride of ownership) are you willing to accept?

Some people want ATI (or their many clones),Parasound, Bryston, Anthem, Adcom, etc. It makes them feel good or proud to own them.

Some people will never want to own brands like Emotiva, Outlaw, Monoprice, Crown and other pro amps. It's their money. Nothing wrong with their choices.

Same reason as some people will always want to own "separates" like Pre-pros, preamps, etc., instead of AVRs.

But as already asked, how much is "cheap"?

Crown and Yamaha pro amps?

Are the Emotiva amps cheap? :D
The only metric is the cost to build (one single) amp and achieve sonic transparency as stated above. Details about brand avoidance, aesthetic desires, or any other non-sonic endorphin release upon ownership, however orgasmic they may be, are well noted, but beside my point. Premium pricing being avoided is the goal. Since there’s a level of subjectivity here feel free to provide a min cost to achieve the goal as described.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Ratings
7,232 8 22
#16
You can't handle the truth

:p

So when we say "cheap" and "cost", what you can achieve is different depending on the goal. If the goal is mainly profit, the result is very different than if it is to achieve just a solid, quality amp regardless of cost / sales. Your original goal is easily achievable. Goal #2 of selling them then becomes a factor.
 
ATLAudio

ATLAudio

Full Audioholic
Ratings
204 5
#17
You can't handle the truth

:p

So when we say "cheap" and "cost", what you can achieve is different depending on the goal. If the goal is mainly profit, the result is very different than if it is to achieve just a solid, quality amp regardless of cost / sales. Your original goal is easily achievable. Goal #2 of selling them then becomes a factor.

The goal is mentioned above. Manufacture, and market, and customer to buy. If any word of phrase I use is too subjective please feel free to infer your own specifics. Ie. "Anything under $1000 can't possibly do this because blah blah blah."

see edits.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Ratings
7,232 8 22
#18
I had 2 or 3 Marantz integrated amps. 100W, stable to 4 Ohms. They sold for $500-700 new. If you removed the integrated part and made it just an amp, you effectively have it and it could easily sell below $500.

Audioquest AMP300. 150WPC and 2 Ohm stable. Sold for around $300 new, I picked 2 of them up for $200 on sale. I have both of them still sitting around in storage.

So, as mentioned it can be done.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
4,323 17 37
#19
I had 2 or 3 Marantz integrated amps. 100W, stable to 4 Ohms. They sold for $500-700 new. If you removed the integrated part and made it just an amp, you effectively have it and it could easily sell below $500.

Audioquest AMP300. 150WPC and 2 Ohm stable. Sold for around $300 new, I picked 2 of them up for $200 on sale. I have both of them still sitting around in storage.

So, as mentioned it can be done.
You mean AudioSource instead of Audioq.... ?
 
S

Steve81

Moderator
Ratings
2,879 18
#20
The goal is mentioned above. Manufacture, and market, and customer to buy. If any word of phrase I use is too subjective please feel free to infer your own specifics. Ie. "Anything under $1000 can't possibly do this because blah blah blah."
Hell, for $1,000 you can get a competent 200W (into 8 ohms) stereo amplifier that's stable into 4 ohms, is built in the US and includes a 5 year warranty, did well on Gene's test bench, etc.
 

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