Standalone player vs PS3?

[Adam]

The people in this thread completely know that they are making a bad decision, and they still choose the bad choice. That's what confuses me. Not knowing and doing is fine, but knowing and doing is stupid.

You do like to stir it up, don't you?

Let me try to help you be less confused. Not everyone likes what you like. Not everyone has the same priorities that you have. Buying what you want (provided that you have the means and so forth) is not a "bad" decision, nor is it stupid. Likewise, buying what someone else tells you that you should want is not necessarily a better decision or more intelligent.

 

[itschris]

Yeah but part of what you're saying is that one person's opinion is right over another. I'm sure there are many people here who will tell me my Def Techs are a waste of money.

Money is relative thing. I posted about remotes in the General Forum a couple of times. I can certainly afford a $1000 remote, but I find it a waste of money for my system, yet others find it one of the most important parts of the system and think I'm stupid for trying to get away with something around $300-$400.

Ths is really about one piece of the controversial equipment... the PS3. I't's arguably the best player, but one that packaged in a way that causes pause. It's a like years ago when my built up Mustang SVO got beat by my buddy's Chevette that he dropped a 305 in. Sure his car was faster, but it was still a Chevette without a/c and I still got the chicks!

When someone puts out a high horsepower bd player that looks good AND costs a real world price... I'm sure that I, and a whole bunch of others will jump on board.

As for that Dennon, I'm sure there a lot of folks who have plenty of money will buy it just so it looks good with the rest of their Dennon stuff. I don't have a problem with that. As long as it's a capable piece of equipment... buy what you want, spend what you want, for the reasons you want. Hell, I'm hoping Pio Elite puts out such a player. It'll be overpriced I'm sure, but I still may get it just because it'll look good with my 94.

 

[Adam]

Btw, Nadal is owning federer.

All tied (at the moment).

 

[Grimfate126]

i totally agree that everyone is entitled to their opinion (not doing so is pretty much illegal these days ). All im trying to do is get people to make a good decision, and save some money. What they are doing is comparable to buying a $90000 ferrari with a lawnmower engine over a $10000 civic with a v12. I know some people just prefer aesthetics more than i do, and i respect that (kinda).

i think this thread is done

the bottom line:

-ps3 is an exceptional player, better than most blu-ray players currently out there. Buy it if you are looking for value-per-dollar.
-standalones arguably look better for some people, and its their choice if they want to buy those. i would wait for some time until prices climb down some 1337%.
-all of this could have been avoided if sony had made the ps3 a box.

ps. FEDERER GOT PWN3D. w00t.

 

[gus6464]

This thread still about the PS3?

 

[itschris]

Agreed. Actually... I think this thread was done several pages ago. But sometimes it's fun and worthwhile to beleaguer a good point. Typing out a conversation is a lot tougher than just talking. You don't have the instantaneous back and forth, where one point conjurs another. It's a more methodical process online. Still good though and I think it's important to sometimes really get at the heart of your opinion.

In the end, we can agree to disagree on this one thing and find 50 others to be completely on the same side on. That's what makes this stuff fun.

 

[gus6464]

It would be fun if the forum added a voice chat server so people can join in on a specific channel which is tied to a thread and talk away. Imagine the fun and insanity at the same time.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I've played with the $2,000 Denon and the PS3 outperforms it easily.

I own the $2K Denon and I've owned the PS3. The only thing the PS3 outperforms is the load time, but it's not like the Denon is slow.

I was at a friend's house this weekend and it took forever for Pirates Of The Caribbean 3 & Resident Evil 3 BD to load on the PS3.

He just bought the PS3. He asked me, "So where's the remote?"

I said, "It's the game controller - the Joystick".

He's not a gamer either, so he was kind of clueless about operating the controller to nagivate.

The PS3 does not outperform the Denon in the Audio or Video performance in anyway.

Another thing I want to add is that the PS3 has frozen up on me a couple times, and the Denon, Panasonic, and Sony BD stand-alone players have never frozen up on me. It's no big deal. I just wouldn't say the PS3 is the absolute best out there. It's one of the best, but it's not gold standard.

 

[Grimfate126]

I own the $2K Denon and I've owned the PS3. The only thing the PS3 outperforms is the load time, but it's not like the Denon is slow.

I was at a friend's house this weekend and it took forever for Pirates Of The Caribbean 3 & Resident Evil 3 BD to load on the PS3.

He just bought the PS3. He asked me, "So where's the remote?"

I said, "It's the game controller - the Joystick".

He's not a gamer either, so he was kind of clueless about operating the controller to nagivate.

- bluetooth->ir converter

The PS3 does not outperform the Denon in the Audio or Video performance in anyway.

- But is the upgrade worth the extra $1500?

Another thing I want to add is that the PS3 has frozen up on me a couple times, and the Denon, Panasonic, and Sony BD stand-alone players have never frozen up on me. It's no big deal. I just wouldn't say the PS3 is the absolute best out there. It's one of the best, but it's not gold standard.

- How did you get it to freeze up? My ps3's never frozen up on me(i watch a blu ray once a day.) and no one said it was the best. we said it was the best, for the price.

lol, voice chat + forums sounds fun. There should be a "bash-the-n00b" section. and everyone should have to go through it, until the get enough GOOD posts.

 

[BMXTRIX]

I own the $2K Denon and I've owned the PS3. The only thing the PS3 outperforms is the load time, but it's not like the Denon is slow.

I was at a friend's house this weekend and it took forever for Pirates Of The Caribbean 3 & Resident Evil 3 BD to load on the PS3.

This takes about 10 seconds for Pirates to load on my PS3 and it takes the disc into the player in under 2 seconds. Not sure what 'forever' is, but the Denon takes about 30 seconds to power on last time I checked.

He just bought the PS3. He asked me, "So where's the remote?"

I said, "It's the game controller - the Joystick".

He's not a gamer either, so he was kind of clueless about operating the controller to nagivate.

So, why not get the PS3 Blu-ray remote for 20 bucks? This isn't a new statement, it's just a sign that your friend bought the PS3 (a game console) without first reading a single review. Because EVERY review talks about needing to get a different remote for the system. I know it was one of the first things I did.

The PS3 does not outperform the Denon in the Audio or Video performance in anyway.

How so? The PS3 handles all resolutions and all audio formats to a capable receiver/display and looks and sounds phenomenal. So, you'll have to excuse me if I ask how much better the Denon actually is, or whether you just think it is? This would be similar to a Monster vs. Monoprice cable test... I think it's very hard to make any obvious distinction without performing A-B testing with a really good display.

Another thing I want to add is that the PS3 has frozen up on me a couple times, and the Denon, Panasonic, and Sony BD stand-alone players have never frozen up on me. It's no big deal. I just wouldn't say the PS3 is the absolute best out there. It's one of the best, but it's not gold standard.

I would disagree - for the money it is the gold standard. It sucks that it has locked up... mine did once about 2 days after I got it, but not since then (going on 18+ months now). I think the real gold of it is that in 18 months it still is faster, it has had real firmware upgrades, it has remained far faster, and more reliable on all discs brought to market compared to any other player. Samsung early players are having extremely significant issues, and even the very good, if somewhat slow Denon's aren't capable of simply downloading the inevitable firmware upgrades that will be necessary for some future discs at some point. (count on it) I'm ready to buy a Denon when it hits that magic point of picking up speed and including Ethernet - really, I am. I think the Denon is very good, as I said, but I don't think it really is at PS3 levels as a complete product, especially at the premium that is necessary to spend on it.

Just my opinion though - and really, I am a big Denon fan (and dealer), so I expect to get one in a year or so when they do hit this performance standard.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

This takes about 10 seconds for Pirates to load on my PS3 and it takes the disc into the player in under 2 seconds. Not sure what 'forever' is, but the Denon takes about 30 seconds to power on last time I checked.


So, why not get the PS3 Blu-ray remote for 20 bucks? This isn't a new statement, it's just a sign that your friend bought the PS3 (a game console) without first reading a single review. Because EVERY review talks about needing to get a different remote for the system. I know it was one of the first things I did.


How so? The PS3 handles all resolutions and all audio formats to a capable receiver/display and looks and sounds phenomenal. So, you'll have to excuse me if I ask how much better the Denon actually is, or whether you just think it is? This would be similar to a Monster vs. Monoprice cable test... I think it's very hard to make any obvious distinction without performing A-B testing with a really good display.


I would disagree - for the money it is the gold standard. It sucks that it has locked up... mine did once about 2 days after I got it, but not since then (going on 18+ months now). I think the real gold of it is that in 18 months it still is faster, it has had real firmware upgrades, it has remained far faster, and more reliable on all discs brought to market compared to any other player. Samsung early players are having extremely significant issues, and even the very good, if somewhat slow Denon's aren't capable of simply downloading the inevitable firmware upgrades that will be necessary for some future discs at some point. (count on it) I'm ready to buy a Denon when it hits that magic point of picking up speed and including Ethernet - really, I am. I think the Denon is very good, as I said, but I don't think it really is at PS3 levels as a complete product, especially at the premium that is necessary to spend on it.

Just my opinion though - and really, I am a big Denon fan (and dealer), so I expect to get one in a year or so when they do hit this performance standard.

For $400 brand new, yes I agree the 40G PS3 is a BD gold standard. Regardless of price, it is one of the best BD players. But it is not gold standard because it does not have all the connections that some people need, and it does not have the looks that some people want.

HQV score for the PS3 is 105/130.

HQV for the Realta chip in the Denons are 130/130.

The Denon most likely have better DACs. The extra money probably means better build quality.

Subjectively, I do believe the Denon does better upscaling to 1080p.
Subjectively, I do believe the Denon sounds better.
Subjectively, I do believe the Denon looks 100% better, aesthetically.

But in a DBT, I probably coudn't tell which one is better in PQ/SQ.

It takes my Denon about 15 - 20 seconds to load a BD movie. It's not as fast as the PS3 in loading time, but it is nothing to complain about. It's no big deal.

All I'm saying is that the PS3 is the not the best BD player in the world. It is the best BD player in the world for the MONEY.

 

[itschris]

I'd completely agree with that. This discussion always comes down the argument of buying on the least common denominator which very few of us do. We make our puchases for a multitude of reasons, not just because it's the first one in a line of contenders that resolves my need.

 

[Grimfate126]

All I'm saying is that the PS3 is the not the best BD player in the world. It is the best BD player in the world for the MONEY.

which is what we have been saying for 6 pages now...

 

[BMXTRIX]

For $400 brand new, yes I agree the 40G PS3 is a BD gold standard. Regardless of price, it is one of the best BD players. But it is not gold standard because it does not have all the connections that some people need, and it does not have the looks that some people want.

HQV score for the PS3 is 105/130.

HQV for the Realta chip in the Denons are 130/130.

The Denon most likely have better DACs. The extra money probably means better build quality.

Subjectively, I do believe the Denon does better upscaling to 1080p.
Subjectively, I do believe the Denon sounds better.
Subjectively, I do believe the Denon looks 100% better, aesthetically.

But in a DBT, I probably coudn't tell which one is better in PQ/SQ.

It takes my Denon about 15 - 20 seconds to load a BD movie. It's not as fast as the PS3 in loading time, but it is nothing to complain about. It's no big deal.

All I'm saying is that the PS3 is the not the best BD player in the world. It is the best BD player in the world for the MONEY.

It's all good. Understand that IMO, it meets the needs of a whole lot of people, but it isn't without certain shortcomings which I would have to say are very intentionally designed into it. I mean, I think Sony knows darn well that we all want a top shelf GOOD IR remote for the PS3, but they don't realease one, and the reason has to be due to the fact that they (Sony) would be presenting the PS3 as a true replacement for stand alone players. Sure, we all like/love that idea, but with many other CEs making players, it would potentially screw them over.

I really think that we are a year away from a near 'perfect' player, as I said, and I think your points are very valid. Heck, upconversion of DVD is very important to many people, but the average person? Heck, they see HDMI and they think it must be flawless perfection. I personally use an external 400 disc changer for my DVDs, and everything else goes Blu-ray into the PS3. I really do GET the concept of a stand alone player. I really do WANT a stand alone player. I really think that for the money Denon charges, if someone wants a stand alone, they should expect 2.0 compliance. Not nearly as much for the interactivity, but for the firmware upgrades.

Next year, I repeat... I expect to see some really solid 2.0 players, and hopefully Denon will be in that mix because I do think they have some solid product out there and would be happy to add it to my setup.

 

[itschris]

It's all good.
Next year, I repeat... I expect to see some really solid 2.0 players, and hopefully Denon will be in that mix because I do think they have some solid product out there and would be happy to add it to my setup.

Me too. That's why I can't see spending a ton of dough on bd player right now. Things are only going to get better... my not different... but performance-wise. I'd like to get the upcoming Elite player, but why? I know damn well I'm going to replace it in a year or so. Same thing with the new Panny. $700? Please.

I'm hoping the Sony 350 has decent performance and comes in at the rumored price of just under $400. That I'll do. Beyond that, I'll wait awhile and just spend bigger bucks when things settle in a year or so from now.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I can think of 4 good reasons why people should wait to get their first BD players:

1) Newer SD DVDs upscale to 1080p look so damn good these days. The 5.1 DD sound quality is also excellent.

2) A lot of movies on BD are crap.

3) Prices are still high

4) Improvements are still coming.

Look who's talking, right?

I mean my current BD player is my 4th one.

 

[obscbyclouds]

I can think of 4 good reasons why people should wait to get their first BD players:

1) Newer SD DVDs upscale to 1080p look so damn good these days. The 5.1 DD sound quality is also excellent.

2) A lot of movies on BD are crap.

3) Prices are still high

4) Improvements are still coming.

Look who's talking, right?

I mean my current BD player is my 4th one.

LOL! Maybe soon someone will come out with a BD player that will make us all happy? Oppo anyone?

 

[AP-123]

Just chugged through 8 pages and almost afraid to post - I'm still undecided and looking for a little help.

Today I'm buying the Denon 3808 receiver and want to jump into a BD player too. From what I've read, it really comes down to to things, audio formats and remote (see below).

Factors to consider between stand alone and PS3:

• I am not a gamer (but afraid I could be )
• I have a media closet and don't care about looks although it does get hot in there.
• The Panasonic DMP-BD50k and the PS3 80 gig will cost me about the same - about $550.
• The PS3 will not bitstream the new audio formats. Does this matter other than a little vanity on the receiver? Will one do a better job than the other?
• Not sure what remote I'm going to buy maybe MX-900.
• I also have an old laptop in the closet that could be used as a media server and for internet connectivity.

I think both choices are fine - but this form provides VALUABLE feedback.

Thanks in advance,
AP

 

[Seth=L]

Just chugged through 8 pages and almost afraid to post - I'm still undecided and looking for a little help.

Today I'm buying the Denon 3808 receiver and want to jump into a BD player too. From what I've read, it really comes down to to things, audio formats and remote (see below).

Factors to consider between stand alone and PS3:

• I am not a gamer (but afraid I could be )
• I have a media closet and don't care about looks although it does get hot in there.
• The Panasonic DMP-BD50k and the PS3 80 gig will cost me about the same - about $550.
• The PS3 will not bitstream the new audio formats. Does this matter other than a little vanity on the receiver? Will one do a better job than the other?
• Not sure what remote I'm going to buy maybe MX-900.
• I also have an old laptop in the closet that could be used as a media server and for internet connectivity.

I think both choices are fine - but this form provides VALUABLE feedback.

Thanks in advance,
AP

Yes, it's receiver vanity. Either way the receiver's DACs are still used. The PS3 decodes the formats just as a receiver would. The PS3 can also process secondary audio where as if you bitstreamed with another Blu-ray player you can only get primary audio. Secondary audio would included commentaries during playback as well as menu sounds during playback. Some people don't care about the secondary audio, but I want to get everything that's there.

If you are not a gamer and don't need SACD playback there's not much reason to get the current 80GB model. Wait to see if the 40GB models take a dive before they are discontinued later this year.

 

[AP-123]

Thanks Seth - Good advice.