Speakers with serious performance ?

[BoredSysAdmin]

About the buzz - BSA is saying there's a lot of internet buzz (aka talk, chatter, discussion) about the Sierra towers, particularly with the RAAL upgrade. It's tweeter btw.

Lol, yes. I wasn't walking about speaker playing noise/buzz

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

What do you mean by - "they subjectively sound every bit as good as the KEF Reference" ?

Well, both the Phil3 and KEF Reference 201/2 sound crystal clear and extremely detailed and lifelike. The soundstage is nice and large.

They may not sound identical. But they sound more similar than not.

As far as dome tweeter vs RAAL (ribbon) tweeter, they are supposed to sound a little different. I've tried for hours switching back and forth within 5 seconds. But I just cannot hear much of a difference. But the difference is there somewhere.

 

[GranteedEV]

Just wondering whether there are any other speaker manufacturers that have made speakers that have the performance of the british made KEF or B&W but at a more reasonable price.

Well first of all, B&W has no performance

Sort of like what Emotiva has achieved with amplifiers: From what I've read, Emotiva makes excellent amps for a fraction of the cost and they perform very comparatively to the higher end amps that cost allot more.

That's because amps are amps

Speaking of Emotiva, I wonder how their reference speakers perform in a head to head comparison with KEF Reference or KEF R-Series speakers ? Would anyone know ?

I'd find it hard to believe they compare. Conceptually, the KEF R-series looks like it sounds as good as it looks, which is really damn nice.

Also, KEF are respected for their UNI-Q Technology which provides a wider dispersion.

Technically it's probably narrower dispersion, but it's more even across the range.

Is this a significant and unique factor in real world home cinema and music listening terms ?

Dispersion is significant. A huge portion of what you hear in the far field is NOT the forward response, but the reflected sound power response.

Well, I love movie watching and would love to enhance that experience. Some of my friends and associated have kindly requested me to build their dedicated home cinema rooms that offer an excellent movie watching experience. I know one or two people that are ready to pay me for such services and have decent budgets for their projects. Home cinema has been my passion since I was a teen so I definitely don't mind fuelling this passion and earning some money in the process.

Just FYI, if you're weighting movie-watching above 2-channel stereo listening, you may want to look at higher efficiency speakers that trade the deepest extension (for example, the JBL LSR 6332 studio monitors). You'll have subs handling bass, so it's better to be able to do justice to the macrodynamics found in movie soundtracks.

That kind of dies make sense, I've been told that KEF has a warm sound whereas B&W is more bright and analytical.

KEF has a neutral sound, whereas B&W has a non-neutral sound.

Who does Infinity ?

Infinity is a Harman company, and they've got a lot of engineering behind most of their stuff, which for some reason they've discontinued a lot of...

What do you mean by - "they subjectively sound every bit as good as the KEF Reference" ?/QUOTE]

He means "in HIS subjective opinion, in his room" (he owns both). To another listener in another room with a different set of biases, they may still sound different.

 

[its phillip]

As nice as the LSR6332s are, I dunno why people say they are higher efficiency. From the spec page:
Anechoic Sensitivity: 93 dB / 2.83 V / 1 m
90 dB / 1W / 1 m

 

[GranteedEV]

As nice as the LSR6332s are, I dunno why people say they are higher efficiency. From the spec page:
Anechoic Sensitivity: 93 dB / 2.83 V / 1 m
90 dB / 1W / 1 m

They're not high efficiency, but they're higher efficiency than the average speaker. Besides that, they have a lot more surface area than the typical speaker in the midbass. So with a nice 300w @ 4 ohm amp, they will hit reference levels without power compression in most rooms. The C500 kevlar midrange is purty beastly ITO power handling itself.

I'd say "Average" efficiency is closer to 84db/w/m.

 

[Sam Ash]

Excuse my interpretation

Lol, yes. I wasn't walking about speaker playing noise/buzz

- LOL, sorry guys - for a minute the word "buzz" concerned me a little as I did think it is some sort of an ultra-high frequency sound that emanates from the RAAL tweeter.

Thank you for the clarification

 

[Sam Ash]

Well, both the Phil3 and KEF Reference 201/2 sound crystal clear and extremely detailed and lifelike. The soundstage is nice and large.

They may not sound identical. But they sound more similar than not.

As far as dome tweeter vs RAAL (ribbon) tweeter, they are supposed to sound a little different. I've tried for hours switching back and forth within 5 seconds. But I just cannot hear much of a difference. But the difference is there somewhere.

Hmm, thank you for that analysis on RAAL. I hope the Phils take a bit of a design approach to their speakers in the future because yes technology and performance is a priority but design is important. I am a design centric person so I guess I'm sensitive to such stuff.

 

[Sam Ash]

Thank you for your input

Well first of all, B&W has no performance

Well, I've heard people say that the B&W Refs are not bad, I've never heard them though.

That's because amps are amps

I must say I do like the Emotiva amps for their excellent price to performance ratio. I may consider them very seriously in the future.

I'd find it hard to believe they compare. Conceptually, the KEF R-series looks like it sounds as good as it looks, which is really damn nice.

Well, so far, nobody on this thread has spoken about them or owns them so it's hard to make a proper judgement.

Technically it's probably narrower dispersion, but it's more even across the range.

I remember someone mentioning that with KEF the sound remains pretty consistent even if you move away from the sweet spot. He was talking about his home cinema set-up when he replaced his speakers with KEF. So I suppose the Uni-Q does play its part.

Dispersion is significant. A huge portion of what you hear in the far field is NOT the forward response, but the reflected sound power response.

That's a very interesting statement that you've made there. Can you please explain it a bit more

Just FYI, if you're weighting movie-watching above 2-channel stereo listening, you may want to look at higher efficiency speakers that trade the deepest extension (for example, the JBL LSR 6332 studio monitors). You'll have subs handling bass, so it's better to be able to do justice to the macrodynamics found in movie soundtracks.

You're absolutely right there and I agree. I will have a look at the JBL you mention and I think Salk too make speakers around that concept.

KEF has a neutral sound, whereas B&W has a non-neutral sound.

I have always liked KEF and I suppose in a way it is a benchmark product. I was just wondering whether there is a company out there that has done with speakers what Emotiva have done with amps - the prime reason why I started this thread.

Infinity is a Harman company, and they've got a lot of engineering behind most of their stuff, which for some reason they've discontinued a lot of...

Good to know, I think they acquired Krell recently. I hear Krell do excellent amps but the price.... !

What do you mean by - "they subjectively sound every bit as good as the KEF Reference" ?/QUOTE]

He means "in HIS subjective opinion, in his room" (he owns both). To another listener in another room with a different set of biases, they may still sound different.

Ah! I see - would be nice to compare both in a blind test.

Thank you for your detailed input...

 

[Sam Ash]

Triton Two

The Triton Two floor standers by Goldenear seem to be very nice speakers from what I've read about them.

Anyone had the opportunity to compare them to the KEF R900 or Ref Series ?

Also, can anyone tell me how they sound generally, especially in a home cinema environment ?

 

[walter duque]

The Triton Two floor standers by Goldenear seem to be very nice speakers from what I've read about them.

Anyone had the opportunity to compare them to the KEF R900 or Ref Series ?

Also, can anyone tell me how they sound generally, especially in a home cinema environment ?

Any speaker with build in subs I would shy away from.

 

[GranteedEV]

Well, I've heard people say that the _________ are not bad, I've never heard them though.

I fixed that for ya...

I must say I do like the Emotiva amps for their excellent price to performance ratio. I may consider them very seriously in the future.

I think they represent a good value too, although I'd personally rather have a crown XLS Drivecore amp..

Well, so far, nobody on this thread has spoken about them or owns them so it's hard to make a proper judgement.

From their design alone, you can still make some pretty solid inferences prior to auditioning (though in some ways that's a bias). I have no doubt the R series is excellent/accurate, although it's tough to say what i'd personally prefer.

That's a very interesting statement that you've made there. Can you please explain it a bit more

Sound Power response is the average of sound radiated into every direction, including forwards, backwards, up, down, left, right. Of this, much of it will still be reflected back towards the listening position. If a speaker has a dip in the sound power response, say, near 2khz, you may hear the consequences in the reflected sound.

and I think Salk too make speakers around that concept.

The only speakers Salk makes that fit this criteria, are the Open Baffle Archos ($4500) and the Pharos ($9000). The rest of their speakers are moreso trading efficiency for deep bass extension.

The ______________ seem to be very nice speakers from what I've read about them.

I fixed that for you

Generally if the measurements aren't good, it's not worth an audition, even though you'll inevitably find fans. If the measurements are good, then go audition it if possible to see what your ears tell you.

 

[3db]

I would put these on my audition list as well.

http://www.psbspeakers.com/content/120120080437-PSB_Imagine-T2_Data-Sheet.pdf

All of PSB speakers series have been given great review.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The Triton Two floor standers by Goldenear seem to be very nice speakers from what I've read about them.

Everyone is different for sure.

It seems like some people prefer "less accurate" speakers, and some prefer "more accurate" speakers.

Some members told me they auditioned some accurate speakers like Aperion, EMP, KEF, Infinity, Revel, etc, and just did not like their sound. But then they listened to DefTech, GoldenEar, Klipsch, ML, or even Zu Audio (one of the least accurate speaker I've ever seen), and they liked their sound.

I've listened to the Paradigm Studio 100 v3, which is considered to be pretty accurate. And I hated the sound. A friend of mine who is an audio dealer has listened to the Paradigm Signature 8 with dual subs, and he hated the Paradigm S8. Yet I love the sound of my current speakers, which are also accurate speakers.

I used to own the DefTech flagship BP7000SC and BP7001SC (designed by Sandy Gross of GoldenEar). I liked them a lot - maybe lacked some midrange details, but I liked them a lot overall.

Everyone is different for sure.

 

[3db]

Audition is the best advice. Plots and grpahs tell a big part of the story but hearing is subjective and that part needs t be engaged, hence the audition. Audition the PSBs I suggested if possible. I know you will not be disappointed.

 

[yveletnik]

I'm currently running R300s and my final pick will probably be either R500 or Q900. Half-official KEF's opinion that anything R300 and above will outperform any model in Q series. A couple people here voted that Q900 might be better than R500 for some applications (especially if you are willing to modify them).
Then there is of course the KEF reference, but it looks like they will have a new line in the near future, so might be wiser to wait on those.

I guess the question is how big is your room, what music do you listen to, whats your budget?

WhatHiFi forum seems to be more involved with KEF.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I also want to mention Soundfield Audio speakers.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/loudspeakers/75809-sound-field-audio-can-your-bookshelf-reach-low-6.html

 

[Sam Ash]

--> 3db

I would put these on my audition list as well.

http://www.psbspeakers.com/content/120120080437-PSB_Imagine-T2_Data-Sheet.pdf

All of PSB speakers series have been given great review.

psb speakers look quite interesting, they have that refined look. The synchrony Ones seem like serious speakers. Have you had the opportunity to compare them with KEF Q and R series ? or even the KEF Refs ?

Please explain your own experience with them if you don't mind.

 

[Sam Ash]

PSB Synchrony One

Any rough idea what a pair of PSB Synchrony One speakers cost ?

 

[3db]

Any rough idea what a pair of PSB Synchrony One speakers cost ?

MSRP are 4K I believe which maybe out of your price range. The Imagine T2 are around 3K and measure extremely well. That's hwy I suggested you audition them. I have the Image series speaker which are two levels in series below the Synchronony. They too measure extremely well but are a smaller speaker so their output capabilities are a little more limited. having audtioned a variety of spekaers in each of their series, I can say that PSB strengths are imaging, dynamics being able to to handle quite to loud transitions and visa versa extremely well. They also sound very natural and do not throw the sound in your face. You may hear things differently as our ears are different but being a PSB owner and having auditioned them, this what I like about them

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

MSRP are 4K I believe which maybe out of your price range. The Imagine T2 are around 3K and measure extremely well.

I've auditioned the Imagine T (1), and I wouldn't even pay $1K for them.

They sounded pretty good to me, but not great by any means.

I would take the Phil2 @$2K or Phil3 @$3K any day over most speakers.