Speakers with serious performance ?

S

Sam Ash

Audioholic Intern
Hi all, have just become a member of this forum as I found the content interesting.

Just wondering whether there are any other speaker manufacturers that have made speakers that have the performance of the british made KEF or B&W but at a more reasonable price.

Sort of like what Emotiva has achieved with amplifiers: From what I've read, Emotiva makes excellent amps for a fraction of the cost and they perform very comparatively to the higher end amps that cost allot more.

Speaking of Emotiva, I wonder how their reference speakers perform in a head to head comparison with KEF Reference or KEF R-Series speakers ? Would anyone know ?

Also, KEF are respected for their UNI-Q Technology which provides a wider dispersion. Is this a significant and unique factor in real world home cinema and music listening terms ?

Gene DeSalla seems to be very knowledgeable and experienced, hope he is able to give me his input, would be rather nice.

Kind regards,

Sam
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
Have you listened to various KEF and B&W speakers in person and found their sound to be particularly pleasing? Or are you just going by reviews and opinions expressed on message boards?

I ask, simply because unlike video, where there are very well defined industry standards and specifications that can be measured, calibrated and matched, in audio, there are no such standards. There are some sort of widely held "best practices" of generally "flat" frequency response and freedom from obvious distortion in all the many various forms that distortion can come in, but no specific measurements or calibrations to aim for and match, industry wide.

You mention dispersion, which is a great example of a metric in sound reproduction that has absolutely no definition of "right" or "wrong". Some speakers have extremely narrow dispersion, where you basically have to sit with your head in a vice in the ONE sweet spot in order to enjoy good sound, and such speakers will basically sound like headphones, but they will be remarkably free from any room effects since the direct sound is so much stronger than any reflected sound.

On the complete opposite end of the spectrum are speakers that basically cast out a cylinder or sphere of nearly uniform sound. These will produce a ton of room reflections.

Somewhere in between is where most speakers fall. In general, it's thought of as a "good" thing when a speaker's dispersion is even and uniform over a fairly wide field in front of the speaker of about 30-60 degrees or so. The research that was done at the NRC in Canada suggested that most people prefer this fairly wide, uniform dispersion, but then prefer that beyond this fairly wide "window", the sound gradually rolls off so that there are fewer strong reflections off of the side walls, ceiling and floor.

So much of sound reproduction has to do with the room in which you are sitting. Every sound system is a combination of the sound coming from the speakers themselves, plus the sound that is reflecting off of all the surfaces in the room before it reaches your ears. Our brains combine the direct sound with the reflected sound that arrives at our ears a few milliseconds later to create a sense of the space we're in. But if the reflections are very strong or arrive extremely soon after the direct sound, our hearing can get confused and can start to "smear" details. And in a very large room, the reflections can arrive so late after the direct sound that we hear a very obvious echo, which is certainly not ideal when we want to hear clear, accurate sound reproduction.

Going back to dispersion, there's this balance between bringing the instruments "into the room" with you vs. "transporting" you out of the room and into a virtually created auditory space. We use the reflections as audio cues to tell us about our surroundings. So a speaker that casts out a sphere of uniform sound will give us a ton of audio cues. This can help to "bring the instruments into the room" so that it seems as though singers and musicians are now in the room, right in front of you. On the other hand, a speaker with very narrow dispersion will create very few audio cues, so it won't create the illusion so much that instruments are being brought into the room, but on the other hand, if audio cues are mixed into the recording itself, now it can create the illusion of "transporting" you into a different audio space, while the speaker that creates the sphere of uniform sound will bounce the audio cues that are in the recording itself all around the room, creating a confusing scenario where the reflections are telling you you are in your listening room, while the audio cues that are in the recording are trying to tell you that you are some place else.

So, yet again, having dispersion that is somewhere in between ends up typically being the most pleasing, as you can get a good balance between direct and reflected sound.

Then there's just linear frequency and accuracy to consider. One would think that, ideally, a speaker would simply reproduce the signal in any recording exactly as the signal tells the speaker to do. This would be considered accuracy. But accuracy isn't always pleasing! Some speakers are designed to "play nice", pretty much regardless of the recording quality. They will "hide" bad, annoying sounds and amplify parts of the audio spectrum that we find more pleasing. And there's also the issue of loudness to consider. Human hearing is not linear. At 85dB, pretty much any audible frequency from 20Hz up to 20kHz sounds about equally as loud to our human ears. But at quieter volumes, even though the notes might technically be equally loud, we don't perceive them that way. Quieter than 85dB, we perceive midrange frequencies (the range of the human voice from about 200Hz up to about 2500Hz) as being much louder than bass or very high frequencies. And we kinda suck at hearing bass. Below about 60dB, we have trouble hearing low bass at all! While a 60dB midrange frequency is easily heard by our human ears.

So some speakers take into account the fact that most people do not listen at "reference volume", which calls for an average of 85dB loudness with 105dB peaks. That's "movie theater" loudness, which most people find too loud when they're listening at home. So most people turn the volume down below this "reference volume", and as a result, sounds in the bass or very high treble now sound much quieter or are even completely lost, whereas we would hear them clearly if we turned the volume up to "reference" level.

Bottom line, sound quality is subjective. What you prefer isn't necessarily what someone else will like. And that's ok! There's no well defined "right" or "wrong". But it also makes it very tough to answer your question. If you're asking if there are "good" speakers that people like just as much as KEF and B&W brand speakers, but at lower price points, then the answer is absolutely yes! But if you're asking if there are speakers that sound identical, then that's a lot harder to answer. For one thing, KEF speakers and B&W speakers do not sound identical, so that brings me back to my original question of whether you've heard these speakers and liked them, or whether you're just taking it on good authority that these brands represent "good" sound quality and you're wondering if something similar is available for less money.

I can tell you, there are speakers like the Ascend CBM-170SE bookshelf speakers that are very, very accurate and only cost $350/pair. There are speakers like the EMP Tek Impression Series that are very pleasing to listen to (and to look at), and can play loud and clear with excellent dynamics and superb midrange clarity for very affordable prices. There are speakers like the GoldenEar SuperSats that are very good at making even low quality recordings sound pleasing while working really well in highly compromised placements, like inside an entertainment cabinet or mounted on a wall.

So there are lots and lots and lots of options out there. These are just a few that come to mind right away as good examples of various strengths, all at very affordable prices. But most of all, the best choice of speakers for YOU is going to depend on your room, your positioning of the speakers, seats and other furniture within that room, your associated equipment, the types of recordings you listen to, and your personal preference.

Hope that helps :)
 
M

mtrot

Senior Audioholic
I'm not the OP, but wanted to thank you for the interesting and informational post!
 
D

DS-21

Full Audioholic
Just wondering whether there are any other speaker manufacturers that have made speakers that have the performance of the british made KEF or B&W but at a more reasonable price.
First, KEF and B&W are very different speaker companies, with different focuses (the cynic in me says that KEF's is audio engineering, B&W's is industrial design...) and markedly different house sounds.

I can't speak to B&W because I've not heard one I liked enough to see where it was made, and I avoid speakers that sound like that. As for KEF, yes, you can get a lot of the performance of a British-made KEF References...with one of the diffusion-line Chinese-made KEFs. :)

(Right now I would argue that the lower line ones are in some respects more advanced. The Refs are pretty old, but the Q- and R- Series have a lot of new driver developments in them. But one can't argue with the measurements of the Refs.)

Alternately, most respects most speakers designed along the accuracy model (controlled midrange dispersion, smoothly declining power response, etc.) will sound more similar than different. I think the Infinity Primus line is probably the cheapest speaker designed thusly. KEF alum Andrew Jones' entry level speakers for Pioneer may be worth checking out as well.

Speaking of Emotiva, I wonder how their reference speakers perform in a head to head comparison with KEF Reference or KEF R-Series speakers ? Would anyone know ?
Just by looking at them (specifically, the size of the woofer cone and the lack of waveguide on the tweeter), poorly.

Also, KEF are respected for their UNI-Q Technology which provides a wider dispersion. Is this a significant and unique factor in real world home cinema and music listening terms ?
I think KEF's propaganda about the Uni-Q talks about wider dispersion, but in fact the Uni-Q does the opposite: it limits dispersion, specifically the dispersion of the tweeter at the lowest parts it plays. That makes for a wider listening area, true. But it isn't wider dispersion.

So yes, the Uni-Q is a significant and unique factor. Though similar (and in some respects better, though in some respects worse) performance, can be had by loading the tweeter in a separate waveguide.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
Hi all, have just become a member of this forum as I found the content interesting.

Just wondering whether there are any other speaker manufacturers that have made speakers that have the performance of the british made KEF or B&W but at a more reasonable price.

Sort of like what Emotiva has achieved with amplifiers: From what I've read, Emotiva makes excellent amps for a fraction of the cost and they perform very comparatively to the higher end amps that cost allot more.

Speaking of Emotiva, I wonder how their reference speakers perform in a head to head comparison with KEF Reference or KEF R-Series speakers ? Would anyone know ?

Also, KEF are respected for their UNI-Q Technology which provides a wider dispersion. Is this a significant and unique factor in real world home cinema and music listening terms ?

Gene DeSalla seems to be very knowledgeable and experienced, hope he is able to give me his input, would be rather nice.

Kind regards,

Sam
Sam welcome to our forums. I love your store BTW ;)

It depends what you consider a "reasonable price"?

For budget minded folks, you should check out speakers from Fluance and Infinity Primus. I am reviewing a pair of Infinity Primus P363s right now. While they aren't perfect, they are pretty amazing for a street price of around $300/pair. They kick the crap out of some towers I've heard/reviewed costing $1k/pair or more.

Ascend Acoustics makes great all around speakers from low to high $$$ models.

EMPtek has some nice options (E55tis), though you need to pair them with a sub to get more fullrange sound. They sound very laid back in the treble and have a great forward and natural sounding midrange. They also play extremely loud with no distress.

Stepping up the price ladder will certainly get you excellent domestic options from the likes of Usher Audio, RBH Sound, Revel, Ascends (again), Definitive Technology, etc. I am sure others have their favorites on this forum too.

We have an article coming online towards the end of next week that serves as a good guide for shopping for loudspeakers that you will want to check out.

also, this is a good read too:
How to Audition Loudspeakers in a Retail Store — Reviews and News from Audioholics
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Just wondering whether there are any other speaker manufacturers that have made speakers that have the performance of the british made KEF or B&W but at a more reasonable price.
I have auditioned the B&W 800D, 802D, and 803D in a local B&W dealer's acoustically treated room. And I would not want any speakers to sound like them. They sound very boring and dead to me - like compressed sound that just cannot sound dynamic enough. But this is my personal taste.:D

KEF, Revel, and RBH, on the other hand, sound very exciting and life like - very open, 3 dimensional, and dynamic IMO.

3 small companies that make excellent speakers that absolutely rival KEF Reference are Philharmonic Audio, Salk, and Ascend Audio.
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
Just wondering whether there are any other speaker manufacturers that have made speakers that have the performance of the british made KEF or B&W but at a more reasonable price.
I am not a general fan of B&W - however, other good British companies >
Monitor Audio, Wharfedale, Acoustic Energy, Mordaunt Short/Cambridge.

Also - Focal, Some Bostons, Some Definitive Techs, Some Harman Designs,
NHT, PSB, along with some of the others mentioned above.
 
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S

Sam Ash

Audioholic Intern
What a Good Start !

First Reflaction,

To begin with, I'd like to thank you and all the other people here who have responded to my inquiry. Wow! what a nice bunch of people who are not only knowledgeable but have taken the time to provide kind and inspiring help.

Have you listened to various KEF and B&W speakers in person and found their sound to be particularly pleasing? Or are you just going by reviews and opinions expressed on message boards?
The only speakers I have listened to are the KEF KHT 3005 (integrated sub/sat system) and the KEF REF 207/2s. Must say the 207s sounded very nice. However, most of my comparative judging comes from reading reviews and opinions on message boards which can be confusing.

no specific measurements or calibrations to aim for and match, industry wide.
Very interesting and I totally agree with you. Sensory perception differ from person to person. I have been in forums where people discuss video colour calibration for days and elevate black levels over all else which I find funny at times.

You mention dispersion, which is a great example of a metric in sound reproduction that has absolutely no definition of "right" or "wrong".........
I like that explanation, precise and clear. I suppose I'd be interested in sensibly dispersed sound so that you still enjoy crisp and detailed sound within the room. Especially a 7.1 configured home theatre environment where not everyone can be in the sweet spot. This also applies to having stereo speakers in a living room where everyone needs to enjoy the music.

On the complete opposite end of the spectrum are speakers that basically cast out a cylinder or sphere of nearly uniform sound. These will produce a ton of room reflections.
I see your point, my inquiry pertains more to a dedicated 7.1 home cinema set-up that can double up as a decent music listening room too. I have managed to tinker with colour calibration where I feel the end results are satisfactory to me but when it comes to sound; I have never been totally - I always feel that it can be better or further refined.

about 30-60 degrees or so. The research that was done at the NRC in Canada suggested that most people prefer this fairly wide, uniform dispersion, but then prefer that beyond this fairly wide "window", the sound gradually rolls off so that there are fewer strong reflections off of the side walls, ceiling and floor.
That makes sense as far as dispersion is concerned. I think the solution would be to take a sensible middle ground as you have mentioned (30-60 degrees). I presume that is the approach KEF takes. One forum member actually said that, with KEF, the sound remains much more uniform as he shifts away from the sweet spot.

So much of sound reproduction has to do with the room in which you are sitting............
You're definitely right there. I'd obviously do the interior of the room intuitively to enhance sound by minimising strong reflections. For example by placing soft furniture, rugs and shelves etc. I've also been looking into ideal room ratios for new builds just out of interest. Is there a simple but powerful software tool that can be used to calibrate sound to a good extent ?

Going back to dispersion, there's this balance between bringing the instruments "into the room" with you vs. "transporting" you out of the room and into a virtually created auditory space. We use the reflections as audio cues to tell us about our surroundings. So a speaker that casts out a sphere of uniform sound will give us a ton of audio cues. This can help to "bring the instruments into the room" so that it seems as though singers and musicians are now in the room, right in front of you. On the other hand, a speaker with very narrow dispersion will create very few audio cues, so it won't create the illusion so much that instruments are being brought into the room, but on the other hand, if audio cues are mixed into the recording itself, now it can create the illusion of "transporting" you into a different audio space, while the speaker that creates the sphere of uniform sound will bounce the audio cues that are in the recording itself all around the room, creating a confusing scenario where the reflections are telling you you are in your listening room, while the audio cues that are in the recording are trying to tell you that you are some place else.
Interesting.

So, yet again, having dispersion that is somewhere in between ends up typically being the most pleasing, as you can get a good balance between direct and reflected sound.
Understood.

Then there's just linear frequency and accuracy to consider. One would think that, ideally, a speaker would simply reproduce the signal in any recording exactly as the signal tells the speaker to do. This would be considered accuracy. But accuracy isn't always pleasing! Some speakers are designed to "play nice", pretty much regardless of the recording quality. They will "hide" bad, annoying sounds and amplify parts of the audio spectrum that we find more pleasing. And there's also the issue of loudness to consider. Human hearing is not linear. At 85dB, pretty much any audible frequency from 20Hz up to 20kHz sounds about equally as loud to our human ears. But at quieter volumes, even though the notes might technically be equally loud, we don't perceive them that way. Quieter than 85dB, we perceive midrange frequencies (the range of the human voice from about 200Hz up to about 2500Hz) as being much louder than bass or very high frequencies. And we kinda suck at hearing bass. Below about 60dB, we have trouble hearing low bass at all! While a 60dB midrange frequency is easily heard by our human ears.
Wow! that is serious education for me. I think I'm going to print your response and sort of keep it in a file as I learn more about the science of sound. I never know that human voice sits between 200Hz and 2500Hz.

So some speakers take into account the fact that most people do not listen at "reference volume", which calls for an average of 85dB loudness with 105dB peaks. That's "movie theater" loudness, which most people find too loud when they're listening at home..........
Absolutely, I've always had this problem in some way or other. I can never find the right level from movie to movie. It's like I always have to tinker with the volume levels if I want to get it right - especially the centre speaker which is always a pain.

Bottom line, sound quality is subjective. What you prefer isn't necessarily what someone else will like. And that's ok! There's no well defined "right" or "wrong". But it also makes it very tough to answer your question. If you're asking if there are "good" speakers that people like just as much as KEF and B&W brand speakers, but at lower price points, then the answer is absolutely yes! But if you're asking if there are speakers that sound identical, then that's a lot harder to answer. For one thing, KEF speakers and B&W speakers do not sound identical, so that brings me back to my original question of whether you've heard these speakers and liked them, or whether you're just taking it on good authority that these brands represent "good" sound quality and you're wondering if something similar is available for less money.
You're right, I was wondering if there are speakers out there that sound just as good or similar to KEF Refs but at more reasonable prices.

I can tell you, there are speakers like the Ascend CBM-170SE bookshelf speakers that are very, very accurate and only cost $350/pair. There are speakers like the EMP Tek Impression Series that are very pleasing to listen to (and to look at), and can play loud and clear with excellent dynamics and superb midrange clarity for very affordable prices. There are speakers like the GoldenEar SuperSats that are very good at making even low quality recordings sound pleasing while working really well in highly compromised placements, like inside an entertainment cabinet or mounted on a wall.
Thank you for pointing that out. I googled all the speakers that you've mentioned above and read about them. EMP Tek Impression series look nice, the Triton Towers by GoldenEar also look very nice. RBH as mentioned by another member here have adopted a modular design.

What would be your personal preference for a dedicated 7.1 home theatre system with a decent amp and separate powered sub-woofer ?

So there are lots and lots and lots of options out there. These are just a few that come to mind right away as good examples of various strengths, all at very affordable prices. But most of all, the best choice of speakers for YOU is going to depend on your room, your positioning of the speakers, seats and other furniture within that room, your associated equipment, the types of recordings you listen to, and your personal preference.
Well, I love movie watching and would love to enhance that experience. Some of my friends and associated have kindly requested me to build their dedicated home cinema rooms that offer an excellent movie watching experience. I know one or two people that are ready to pay me for such services and have decent budgets for their projects. Home cinema has been my passion since I was a teen so I definitely don't mind fuelling this passion and earning some money in the process.

Hope that helps :)
That has helped immensely, thank you very much indeed.

Are you a sound engineer by profession or a univerity lecturer specialising in acoustical sciences ?

Must admit, I already like this forum :)
 
S

Sam Ash

Audioholic Intern
Thanks DS-21

First, KEF and B&W are very different speaker companies, with different focuses (the cynic in me says that KEF's is audio engineering, B&W's is industrial design...) and markedly different house sounds.
That kind of dies make sense, I've been told that KEF has a warm sound whereas B&W is more bright and analytical.

I can't speak to B&W because I've not heard one I liked enough to see where it was made, and I avoid speakers that sound like that. As for KEF, yes, you can get a lot of the performance of a British-made KEF References...with one of the diffusion-line Chinese-made KEFs. :)
I too have never heard B&W speakers. Diffusion-Line Chinese-made KEF, which are those ???

(Right now I would argue that the lower line ones are in some respects more advanced. The Refs are pretty old, but the Q- and R- Series have a lot of new driver developments in them. But one can't argue with the measurements of the Refs.)
I've heard the KEF Refs 207/2 - pretty amazing and detailed warm sound, low frequencies are impressive too.

Yes, I like the Q and R series but unfortunately have not heard them. I'm wondering if anyone here has ?

Alternately, most respects most speakers designed along the accuracy model (controlled midrange dispersion, smoothly declining power response, etc.) will sound more similar than different. I think the Infinity Primus line is probably the cheapest speaker designed thusly. KEF alum Andrew Jones' entry level speakers for Pioneer may be worth checking out as well.
Who does Infinity ?

Just by looking at them (specifically, the size of the woofer cone and the lack of waveguide on the tweeter), poorly.
Oh ok, interesting as Emotiva's concept is performance for value. I wonder if anyone here has had the opportunity to hear them out ?

I think KEF's propaganda about the Uni-Q talks about wider dispersion, but in fact the Uni-Q does the opposite: it limits dispersion, specifically the dispersion of the tweeter at the lowest parts it plays. That makes for a wider listening area, true. But it isn't wider dispersion.
Now that is an interesting observation. Yes, KEF does push it's products based on its Uni-Q technology and I don't have that much experience with various speaker technologies to vouch for it's significance.

So yes, the Uni-Q is a significant and unique factor. Though similar (and in some respects better, though in some respects worse) performance, can be had by loading the tweeter in a separate waveguide.
Loading the tweeter in a separate waveguide - Sorry, thats a bit technical, can you explain that further please ?

Thank you for your input
 
S

Sam Ash

Audioholic Intern
Nice to hear from Gene himself

Sam welcome to our forums. I love your store BTW ;)
Hi Gene, it is such an honour hearing from you. I have heard allot of good things about you. Sam Ash is my name and I don't own any stores. I presume you're talking about the music instruments store that goes under the same name.

It depends what you consider a "reasonable price"?
Well, I've been asked to design and possibly implement some dedicated home cinema rooms for private residential owners. Something I might just do just to fuel my passion for home cinema technology. To answer your question, I'm interested in from mid budget to higherend speakers.

For budget minded folks, you should check out speakers from Fluance and Infinity Primus. I am reviewing a pair of Infinity Primus P363s right now. While they aren't perfect, they are pretty amazing for a street price of around $300/pair. They kick the crap out of some towers I've heard/reviewed costing $1k/pair or more.
Thanks for that info Gene.

Ascend Acoustics makes great all around speakers from low to high $$$ models.
Will have a look at their web site but as far as I can remember, they don't do floor standers (I could be wrong).

EMPtek has some nice options (E55tis), though you need to pair them with a sub to get more fullrange sound. They sound very laid back in the treble and have a great forward and natural sounding midrange. They also play extremely loud with no distress.
Those look very nice and the spec is interesting, I noticed that they have won Audioholics product of the year award back in 2009.

Stepping up the price ladder will certainly get you excellent domestic options from the likes of Usher Audio, RBH Sound, Revel, Ascends (again), Definitive Technology, etc. I am sure others have their favorites on this forum too.
What would your favourite be for a decent 7.1 based home theatre system ?

We have an article coming online towards the end of next week that serves as a good guide for shopping for loudspeakers that you will want to check out.
I definitely will, let me know where to look.

also, this is a good read too:
audioholics.com/education/loudspeaker-basics/how-audition-speakers]How[/url] to Audition Loudspeakers in a Retail Store — Reviews and News from Audioholics
I'll have a look at it.

Thank you for your input, very kind of you.
 
S

Sam Ash

Audioholic Intern
Interesting....

I have auditioned the B&W 800D, 802D, and 803D in a local B&W dealer's acoustically treated room. And I would not want any speakers to sound like them. They sound very boring and dead to me - like compressed sound that just cannot sound dynamic enough. But this is my personal taste.:D

KEF, Revel, and RBH, on the other hand, sound very exciting and life like - very open, 3 dimensional, and dynamic IMO.

3 small companies that make excellent speakers that absolutely rival KEF Reference are Philharmonic Audio, Salk, and Ascend Audio.
Thank you for sharing your personal experience about B&W and for mentioning some of the other speaker brands that you do like.

I visited the RBH site and their speakers look serious. How do Revel and RBH weigh in against KEF. I ask because I am presuming that they are both better priced than KEF ?

Will definitely look into Philharmonic Audio, Salk, and Ascend Audio just for my own reference and knowledge.

What would be your personal favourite ? (especially for 7.1 home cinema)
 
S

Sam Ash

Audioholic Intern
I am not a general fan of B&W - however, other good British companies >
Monitor Audio, Wharfedale, Acoustic Energy, Mordaunt Short/Cambridge.

Also - Focal, Some Bostons, Some Definitive Techs, Some Harman Designs,
NHT, PSB, along with some of the others mentioned above.
Much appreciated
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Thank you for sharing your personal experience about B&W and for mentioning some of the other speaker brands that you do like.

I visited the RBH site and their speakers look serious. How do Revel and RBH weigh in against KEF. I ask because I am presuming that they are both better priced than KEF ?

Will definitely look into Philharmonic Audio, Salk, and Ascend Audio just for my own reference and knowledge.

What would be your personal favourite ? (especially for 7.1 home cinema)
Revel is more expensive than KEF. Both Revel and KEF are accurate speakers. Since great sounding speakers sound more alike than they differ, my personal favorites would be Revel Ultima2, KEF Reference, Linkwitz Orion, & Philharmonic for music 2.1. :D

For 7.1/5.1, my personal favorite is KEF Reference.
 
S

Sam Ash

Audioholic Intern
Profoundly Interesting...

Revel is more expensive than KEF. Both Revel and KEF are accurate speakers. Since great sounding speakers sound more alike than they differ, my personal favorites would be Revel Ultima2, KEF Reference, Linkwitz Orion, & Philharmonic for music 2.1. :D

For 7.1/5.1, my personal favorite is KEF Reference.
Thank you for sharing your experience and specifically answering my question. I did not even know about some of these interesting speaker brands until I joined this forum. I checked out some of the brands you mentioned and found them to be very interesting. Philharmonic looks like something out of a secret lab in the 40's era, this speaker should have been featured in one of the Sherlock Holmes movies :D - I love the opening statement on their home page: If you are an audio enthusiast who values serious engineering more than exotic wires, designer capacitors, or cabinetry fashion statements, you have come to the right place :)

Anyway, have you had the opportunity to listen to Triton Towers by Goldenears, R55Ti by RBH and others speakers by EMP-Tek, Ascend and Usher ?

Actually, just to sort of reiterate, I wanted to know if it's possible to get KEF Ref sound quality at a more reasonable price.

Furthermore, what is your take on the KEF Q and R Series ?
 
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AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Anyway, have you had the opportunity to listen to Triton Towers by Goldenears, R55Ti by RBH and others speakers by EMP-Tek, Ascend and Usher ?
No. None of those exact models.

I used to own the DefTech BP7000SC and BP7001SC, which were also designed by Sandy Gross (same guy who designed the GoldenEar Triton). So I have a pretty solid idea what the Triton speakers sound like, which is pretty great.....but may lack some details in midrange....maybe. The reason I say "maybe" is because when I had those DefTech, I set the subwoofer level @ 11 o'clock, which is probably too much and possibly adversely affected the midrange details.:eek:

I did compare the BP7000SC/BP7001SC and RBH T2 & T3 to the B&W 800D, 802D, and 803D. I thought the DefTech & RBH sounded better in every way. But I just did not think the T2/T3 & DefTech sounded as detailed as the KEF Reference or my other speakers. Could be because of too much bass on both cases. :D


Actually, just to sort of reiterate, I wanted to know if it's possible to get KEF Ref sound quality at a more reasonable price.
Yes, I definitely think so.

One example is the $2K Philharmonic 2 towers, which have the exact same tweeter/midrange as Philharmonic 3 and same Crossovers (Dennis Murphy). I think for $2K/pr, they subjectively sound every bit as good as the KEF Reference.

BTW, you don't have to pay full MSRP. For example, you can get the KEF 201/2 for $4K/pr, instead of $6K.

Furthermore, what is your take on the KEF Q and R Series ?
I never got to audition either, but my educated guess is both sound excellent. Even if they don't sound exactly as great as the KEF Reference, I think they will be close.
 
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BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
Will have a look at their web site but as far as I can remember, they don't do floor standers (I could be wrong).
Yea, Ascend Sierra Towers were introduced relatively recently, but they make a lot of buzz, especially with optional RAAL twitter upgrade

I'd consider them in same ballpark as other big boys such as KEF reference, Phil's and Salk etc...
 
S

Sam Ash

Audioholic Intern
RAAL Twitters ?

Yea, Ascend Sierra Towers were introduced relatively recently, but they make a lot of buzz, especially with optional RAAL twitter upgrade

I'd consider them in same ballpark as other big boys such as KEF reference, Phil's and Salk etc...
What do you mean by "they make a lot of buzz" - I've never heard a speaker with RAAL twitters ?

Are RAAL twitters superior to the conventional ones ?

Visited the Salk web site, very interesting - not many companies out there that will custom-build a speaker to reference standards.
 
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S

Sam Ash

Audioholic Intern
---> AcuDefTechGuy

One example is the $2K Philharmonic 2 towers, which have the exact same tweeter/midrange as Philharmonic 3 and same Crossovers (Dennis Murphy). I think for $2K/pr, they subjectively sound every bit as good as the KEF Reference.
What do you mean by - "they subjectively sound every bit as good as the KEF Reference" ?
 
its phillip

its phillip

Audioholic Ninja
He means in his subjective opinion they sound just as good as the KEFs.

About the buzz - BSA is saying there's a lot of internet buzz (aka talk, chatter, discussion) about the Sierra towers, particularly with the RAAL upgrade. It's tweeter btw.
 
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