Speaker wire; MONSTER CABLE OR COAT HANGERS??

[Hipnotic4]

"and it looks like a group of 12 self-professed "audiophiles" recently couldn't tell the difference between Monster 1000 speaker cables and plain old coat hangers."


Read more: http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/03/audiophiles-cant-tell-the-difference-between-monster-cable-and/

 

[MDS]

Classic, but just wait...soon the audiophiles will claim the test wasn't fair. 'Twas ever thus.

 

[skizzerflake]

"and it looks like a group of 12 self-professed "audiophiles" recently couldn't tell the difference between Monster 1000 speaker cables and plain old coat hangers."


Read more: http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/03/audiophiles-cant-tell-the-difference-between-monster-cable-and/

Some years ago, I saw a similar article where high end cable was compared to Romex (heavy wire used in the electrical conduit inside your walls) and the Romex won. The audio fanatics declared that the experiment was "flawed". Anybody surprised?

 

[stratman]

I wonder how many excuses were given by the golden ears.

 

[Hipnotic4]

You gotta give Monster cable credit for its great marketing...They will always have a crowd. Its sad, but true.

Not going to mention any other names, but to pay over 20-30-50-100 dollars a foot for speaker wire. Its just straight ego or stupidity. But ofcourse what do I know, I just listen with my ears.

 

[Jack Hammer]

I don't see any empirical evidence that this test ever actually occured. It's easy to jump on this as a clear case of the "wire doesn't make any difference," but without a properly documented scientific double blind test, preferably performed by qualified individuals, it's just looks to me like people passing around their own opinions as fact.

Jack

 

[avaserfi]

Ironically, the article actually originated on Audioholics, at least, in a way. If you clicked all the links and read the original is links directly to a post made in 2004. Check out the original article here it has a link to the post in the text.

As far as Jack Hammer's post about qualified individuals testing cable audibility go look on JAES and read what the qualified individuals have found in scientific tests completed.

 

[MDS]

I don't see any empirical evidence that this test ever actually occured. It's easy to jump on this as a clear case of the "wire doesn't make any difference," but without a properly documented scientific double blind test, preferably performed by qualified individuals, it's just looks to me like people passing around their own opinions as fact.

Jack

True, but I'd say that these kinds of tests have been conducted ad nauseum for decades and nearly always with the same result.

It's great fodder for a forum like this and this thread will go on and on for sure but to me it's always the same. Even when the so-called audiophiles help design the test and choose the equipment, when they ultimately fail the excuses are always the same.

Everyone likes to say that we should all have an open mind and be open to all possibilities and that is certainly true but it doesn't seem to apply to those that are sure of the expected outcome and yet fail to achieve that expected outcome. Then come the excuses to rationalize how the objective test result could not possibly be correct because it didn't mesh with the preconceived beliefs.

Cognitive Dissonance at it's finest.

 

[Thaedium]

Yah I followed the links all the way through to the original anecdotal post made by Dr. Bob Dean aka Savelife. Its neat, but I don't put much stock in it. I mean, this is exactly what I said, an anecdote. Even as detailed as savelife's post was, this was something done amongst a group of people under conditions that none of us are really aware of.

I'm not saying its not possible, but I am saying that this type of experiment would be far more convincing were it undertaken more seriously. With detailed information, and measurements to go with the individual accounts of each person involved in the testing.

As far as Engadget, BoingBoing, and the Consumerist are concerned however, I have to say they're a little late on the draw. That post happened in 2004, and four years later these guys are giving it minimal coverage and are more or less regurgitating a synopsis of what was written 4 years ago. The point? Just mentioning Monster and Cables in any CE website/blog/forum elicits interest and generates dicussion, meanwhile the ads these sites run are getting their fair share of exposure.

Either way, other then to harp on these other sites for making headlines without any worthwhile substance to follow it up, I'd say that this is a relatively boring news day.

 

[mtrycrafts]

..it's just looks to me like people passing around their own opinions as fact.

Jack

I wonder what 'golden ears' do?

 

[mtrycrafts]

I don't see any empirical evidence that this test ever actually occured. It's easy to jump on this as a clear case of the "wire doesn't make any difference," but without a properly documented scientific double blind test, preferably performed by qualified individuals, it's just looks to me like people passing around their own opinions as fact.

Jack

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=941184

This one happened But it would certainly not be published in a peer paper.
On the other hand, the golden ear, an AA member, that participated, has a pretty nice system, and very expensive wires, mid 5 figures to each speakers. This was to have been a prelude to the Randi $1mil challenge. Poor guy could differentiate and gave up midway.

 

[Jack Hammer]

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=941184

This one happened But it would certainly not be published in a peer paper.
On the other hand, the golden ear, an AA member, that participated, has a pretty nice system, and very expensive wires, mid 5 figures to each speakers. This was to have been a prelude to the Randi $1mil challenge. Poor guy could differentiate and gave up midway.

That's pretty funny and matches my non-scientific experiences close enough.

I think a few people may have missed the point of my original post. It wasn't that there neccessarily is or isn't a difference between using Monster wires or coat hangers, it was that the 'facts' stated in the article that members here are flag waving (no offense intended) was based on claims made in a single random off-topic post by one guy on an internet forum 3 and a half a years ago.

Jack

 

[gliz]

This is interesting, I went to Google and did a search for "high performance PC cables" and did not see much. I saw no claims of better PC performance, no claims of "brighter colors" if you use our printer cables. In IT (which is where I work) either the data gets there or it does not. I then did a search for "high performance audio cables" and I found claims O plenty. Things like silver core HDMI cables that are $200 bucks, and all sorts of fun stuff. try it and see what you think.

 

[Exit]

It never ceases to amaze me when people spend hundreds of dollars on cables (i.e.a $400 Cardias headphone cable for example.). Then again it never ceases to amaze me that people buy Bose systems. It would be more amazing if people spent hundreds of dollars for cables for their Bose system (I know they have some proprietary connections.) When people base their buying on marketing hype, you get some really strange purchase selections. I guess that’s why we have telemarketers, infomercials, and the rest of the vultures who prey upon an unknowing public. There is no end of people trying to sell you things that do not live up to their marketing hype or products that no one needs.

Same as it ever was

 

[kenhoeve]

Same as it ever was

watchin' the days go by...

 

[Hipnotic4]

Of course this is old and boring news to most of you guys. Most of you have been in the audio world for more than just a few years.

But understand that their will always be newbies. This information is new to tons of people, even some guys that are part of our audio community.

You can setup any test you want under any kind of scientific arrangements. Like other people said, its old news. It has been tested and done countless times. You will get the same exact results, time after time. Do a test with "professional" audio guys, and newbies. Don't act surprised by the same results.

This is just one of those instances where, "you get what you pay for," should questioned by something like, "What am I really paying for?"

 

[itschris]

I think there's a different reality to high-end cables... and maybe even components altogether. I have to admit... I'm one of those guys who's got $1K to $2k in cables either plugged in or laying around somewhere in a box waiting to get plugged in. Did I buy because I honestly believed it was that much better than "normal" cable? No... not at all. I bought because I felt secure that it was no worse and could potentially yield benefits if all the cables were of similar variety. The most honest answer, however, is that I think they're cool. I think big nasty speaker cable looks good laying on the ground next to nice speakers and equipment. It's just like buying a Ferrari and putting $20k into a new wheelset for it.

I mean does a $20K set of B&W speakers sound $18K better than a pair of Def Techs? I don't think so, but given a choice... I'd still go with B&W because performance-wise, they no worse... probably better.. but just look cool as sh*t sitting in your living room.

 

[Hipnotic4]

Well you are doing really good financialy if your spending that much money on stuff for the "cool factor." You really can not compare a "wheelset" in relation to difference in cables, but I do know what your saying.

Gotta respect a man who spends money on something knowing theirs no real benifit but buys it because he wants it and well, CAN.

Much respect.

 

[Jack Hammer]

No ones really saying that you shouldn't buy expensive cables because you thnk they make your system look great. They're calling BS on companies that claim that putting ceramic spacers under or bags of pebbles over your cables, pointing a phone at your system while pre-recorded clicks on the other end fine tune your sound, and using their brand of same gauge wire probably made from the same stock copper as everyone elses will somehow make a night and day difference on the sound coming from your speakers.

Jack

 

[davidtwotrees]

Stereotyping and Hating on Audiophiles

Really. Being Objective on these threads, they really come off as bigotry of audiophiles. To read these threads, one would believe that ALL audiophiles are idiots who buy into pebbles and clever clocks. That would be a tiny percentage, imho. Do I question people who think they can hear a big diff by changing cables in their system? Sure. But I don't question their right to do so. As has been pointed out, this thread's basis for being starts from totally subjective roots! I for one get tired of audiophile bashing. Of the ten or so true audiophiles I have met and spent time with, not one was an idiot, and they were all decent human beings that loved the sound of music. Were some of them subjectivists? You betcha. I also know some religous folks that are fine humans as well and I don't hold that subjectivsm against them either.
I love the music and try to live and let live.........