Speaker Set-up

[brian32672]

I'm not asking for help. I think my system sounds great. Post a link to your thread and I'll read it; even though I think you're a jackass.

Sorry to say - but by saying he is a j-a. Really makes you look bad. As well, honestly with what you are saying on setting your crossover at 60hz and mains to large---. Sorry you are incorrect.
The mains set to large will still get the full range - even if a 20hz signal is going to them. I would go on further on this, and explain as what is happening. But I may be called a j-a, and honestly you have already proved yourself - to not listen....

Anyhow, for the OP. Just set them to small. If you do not believe me, just send a 50hz signal to them (even if they were rated to 40hz) It will not handle that 50hz very well at all. My speakers are rated down to 35hz, my sub will do 16Hz. I by no means need to waste the amp power for the mains, as they will not do a 48hz signal higher than 95db (maybe)..
They will hit 50Hz (believe me 50Hz is very low to begin with), anyhow my mains I have hit at 101db at 50Hz. But at this frequency the sound is omnipresent, and should not/can not be localized. The sub will do 102db at 20Hz and about 115db+ at 50Hz. So it is better off to use the power for what it is made for.. (this is unless you are dealing with 2 channel stereo only - which is a whole other matter)

 

[shokhead]

102db@20Hz is getting it done and the neighbors will love it.

 

[brian32672]

102db@20Hz is getting it done and the neighbors will love it.

My bad--If I recall, I did that with my dual sub setup (at my condo)
In the house I am in at now(single sub).. It's 101-103db at 25Hz.. (it is a larger room)
(granted just recently - The 'Darla scene' I hit 118db)
(that was measured 13 feet away from the sub)

I have not maxed out the mains here (yet), but also I had a bad horn tweeter (left fr main)..
Great thing though - it was under warranty.
They got me a new one here in 4 days (I am just to lazy to put it in)
You only here a buzzing from the tweeter when I hit about 100db (which is more than what I play at normal levels - So it's no big deal at the moment)

 

[darien87]

If i was in Vegas,i wouldnt bet on me moving. Heck i'm learning more then i know but most people even with some "KILLER" speakers set them to small for more then 1 reason but hey,i could be wrong but i'm sure 87 will figure it out and be as happy as a bug.

Seriously. Post a link to your thread and I'll read it. Whether I agree with it or not, I'm always up for getting new information. Bottom line for me is; I take suggestions and try them out. If they don't work for me, (as setting my speakers on small does not), I go back to what I was doing before.

 

[darien87]

Sorry to say - but by saying he is a j-a. Really makes you look bad. As well, honestly with what you are saying on setting your crossover at 60hz and mains to large---. Sorry you are incorrect.
The mains set to large will still get the full range - even if a 20hz signal is going to them. I would go on further on this, and explain as what is happening. But I may be called a j-a, and honestly you have already proved yourself - to not listen....

How did I prove myself to not listen? He said he had an informational thread, and I asked him to post a link to it. Sounds like I'm willing to listen to me. Fine, I'll retract my statement to Shok, but he's the one that got pissy first.

So from what you guys are saying, it sounds like I am mistaken in thinking that setting the crossover to 60Hz works for both music and movies. If they are indeed separate, then I have something to think about.

But like I said, I had read other articles saying to set the fronts to small and I tried it out. The problem was that I had a bunch of missing sound. I use my system for about 75% home theater and about 25% music. Plus I live in a condo, so I don't think I've ever had my receiver over the -25db mark. So far, I've NEVER heard my VR2's struggling or bottoming out. Until someone can explain to me how I can set my fronts to small and not miss out on all that sound, I'll leave my settings the way they are. Sorry, but I just don't see the problem in letting my reciever and speakers perform the job they were designed to do.

 

[shokhead]

Bass and LFE are not the same

#8 There is a difference between speakers being able is play bass well and play LFE well.

 

[darien87]

#8 There is a difference between speakers being able is play bass well and play LFE well.

Ok. Last night, I reread Clint's sticky on Bass settings, and while it makes sense, I don't understand what the difference between setting the speakers to small with a 60Hz crossover point and setting them to large with a 60Hz crossover point is. Isn't everything below 60Hz going to my subs in either configuration?

My Denon manual says to set the front speakers to large if they "have sufficient performance for reproducing bass sound below the frequency set for the crossover." So since my VR2's go down to 40Hz and the crossover is set at 60Hz, it sure sounds like large is the way to go.

What am I missing?

p.s. Sorry to hijack your thread Billy, but this is really confusing me. Hopefully you'll find this information useful as well.

 

[MDS]

Ok. Last night, I reread Clint's sticky on Bass settings, and while it makes sense, I don't understand what the difference between setting the speakers to small with a 60Hz crossover point and setting them to large with a 60Hz crossover point is. Isn't everything below 60Hz going to my subs in either configuration?

No. Frequencies at or below 60 Hz (a xover is actually a slope) for the Small channels will go to the sub. The Large speakers will get the full range signal and no part of it will go to the sub (unless you use a setting like LFE+Main or whatever Denon has chosen to call that feature).

 

[billy p]

Just saw another thread and after reading it and the responses on this thread LFE AND BASS are not the same. Bass is more a musical freq where's LFE is more for movies.
d87 not a issue we are all seeking answers.

 

[shokhead]

LFE=Low Freq Effects

 

[darien87]

No. Frequencies at or below 60 Hz (a xover is actually a slope) for the Small channels will go to the sub. The Large speakers will get the full range signal and no part of it will go to the sub (unless you use a setting like LFE+Main or whatever Denon has chosen to call that feature).

Indeed, my Denon does have an LFE + Main setting. Which is what I have my speakers set at currently. I realize that the crossover is a slope (-24db or whatever), I merely said that for the sake of simplicity.

So I just called Magnolia, the store where I bought my Denon and Boston's, and the guy told me to leave the VR2's on large. He said to set them as small would be, "cutting the speakers off at the knees." He also said that if I set the fronts to small, that the receiver crosses them over at 80Hz, (he also started talking about Rell subs and how I should come down and check one out because they have them on sale for $700. Frickin' salesmen ). If so, that's a bummer, because that's a bit higher than I wanted my subs crossed over at. I was really happy with a 60Hz crossover point. I guess my assumption on how the crossover worked was incorrect.

However, I tried setting them to small and turning the gain up slightly on my Boston sub and it sounded pretty good. Not much of a sound difference, like I was getting before, (which was probably due to my having the subs kick on at 60Hz, while the receiver was crossing the VR2's over at 80Hz). I'll leave them on small for a while and see how I like it.

Now will having the fronts set to small with an 80Hz crossover work the same for music AND movies, or is there a difference?

 

[shokhead]

80 is 80,movies or music.

 

[darien87]

80 is 80,movies or music.

I just wish 60Hz was 60Hz, as that is where I would much rather cross my VR2's at.

 

[shokhead]

Your Denon can get 60 but most players are fixed,mines at 120,lucky me.

 

[billy p]

Wow!! Lots of talk on threads regarding LFE & SUBS. My question's are this ?
If I had a set of axiom m80's set to small, x-over at 80 would this be wise or right.Then would I set the avr mains without LFE.
I ask this because the more I read the more it makes me think the more I think the more I tinker and feel I'm missing something?
At this time my b2's are set to small with main+LFE and X-over at 80.

 

[Nick250]

I just wish 60Hz was 60Hz, as that is where I would much rather cross my VR2's at.

I disagree completely with the salesperson. Set them at 60Hz or 80Hz, which ever sounds best to you. If you have a decent sub almost all speakers will sound better set as small. The sales person gave you bad advice.

Nick

 

[shokhead]

Small but not main+lfe and i might go with the 60,thats your call. I thought 80 was right until i got a setup disc and 60 was better.

 

[billy p]

Small but not main+lfe and i might go with the 60,thats your call. I thought 80 was right until i got a setup disc and 60 was better.

Man I took me so long to type this I'm at work but the last two answers I think answered my last question!!

 

[AVRat]

Take a look at the freq. response graph of the M80. The response starts to roll off the bottom end around 80Hz. This tells us that the speaker is not effectively using the power that is provided below 80Hz so there is no reason for the power source to provide power to these frequencies. Therefore, we supplement the low end with a subwoofer that can effectively handle the frequencies below 80Hz so that our system has a fairly flat response much lower in the frequency range.

darien,
The VR2s probably have a similar freq. response. The thing is that at -3dB, you are only getting 50% out of what you put in. At -6db, its only 25%. You may think you’re not using the VR2s full potential, but you are also not using your subs effectively either. Granted, you have some nice gear; well designed, sensitive speakers and robust subs – with the Denon 2805 only having a universal bass management, you also have to consider the freq. response of the other speakers as well. You may not hear much of a difference, but bass management is not just about improving sound quality, but also effective use of power. If you want to run the X-over at 60Hz, then do it. It’s your sytem. BTW, the 2805 has adjustable X-over settings, not fixed 80Hz as the sales guy said.

billy,
Your 3805/Athena situation is a little different. You have more power for your small bookshelfs and your sub isn’t very robust, but I don’t think you’d benefit from a different setup based on the freq. response of your speakers. Though, I may be inclined to run it the way you have it set up. Your B2s must be set to large(?) to use the LFE + Main setting. The X-over on your sub should be turned all the way up unless it can be bypassed.

 

[billy p]

Thanks AVRat your correct.Got home from work read the manual(3805) and sure enough only when set to large LFE+main is available and tested on avr as well!So will keep current setting speakers to small & x-over at 80 and cranked(ok as loud as my sub allows me)!!
One day soon I do want to invest in some floors and later sub, but now it seems to me that vast amounts of $$ on efficient floors and setting to small is a waste money for H/T the sub is the way to go.
Since I listen to more music in direct mode getting floors would be a plus but dvd movie 5.1!! Zone two with floors is my destiny.
THANKS TO ALL
BILL