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WhiteGhost
Enthusiast
What's the difference? I was thinking of setting gains at 12 o clock and then let Diracevel match it.
"Let our rigorous testing and reviews be your guidelines to A/V equipment – not marketing slogans"
William Lemmerhirt
Audioholic Overlord
So basically for gain matching you take the subs and measure them individually at one spot in the room(usually center) then put them in place. The point is to make sure output isn’t crippled by the lesser sub. IMO, it’s irrelevant to gain match first since they have to be level matched once they’re in place anyway. Unless the room is totally symmetrical and the subs identical.
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WhiteGhost
Enthusiast
So still gain match with a db tool after I run Dirac? Is it better to level match with gain knob or in software.
William Lemmerhirt
Audioholic Overlord
Well if gain matching you’d do it first. But you have to level match them anyway once you put them in place since the room affects the output. I think Dirac will level match them anyways, so it proves my point
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cblan1224
Audiophyte
I don't think you should. The same speaker being in a different position can absolutely change..just about everything. Front heights may have another 10db of low end extension due to boundary gain, for instance. It could be any number of things. I have a pretty good idea of all my speaker's individual capabilities. I built them. But I tend to trust dirac's cutoff point.
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WhiteGhost
Enthusiast
Just did a Dirac measurement with bass control and it set all my in wall RSL speakers to 70hz I have attached a screen shot for my LCR, should I be setting them up in the crossover or do I just trust Dirac to design best crossovers all my speaker are the same. Any help on this would be great.
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cblan1224
Audiophyte
It will be locked out of the on screen display. You can only change it before sending it to the processor.
I have changed them, then I went back to just leaving it where they recommended. Sounds great. Amazing how much work this saves.
I have 4 subs and perlisten speakers that go down to 20hz but they set my mains at 70 also. Then the surrounds and heights vary. One of my height channels has a killer vibration at 120hz(I need to fix a loose piece on the bracket it's hung on) and they set it at 143hz lol. Sounds like my refresh rate I went with that too. I don't touch the crossovers but I'm sure you'll get varying opinions.
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WhiteGhost
Enthusiast
Ok great wasn't sure with mixed info on line, Dirac support told me to leave where they set so I guess I will. You are right it does save alote of time and really does sound amazing.
Sawtaytoes
Junior Audioholic
I left my base layer at their settings, but I had to adjust my heights. At volume, they were popping. My crossover was automatic at 70Hz and needed to be 120Hz for those.
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cblan1224
Audiophyte
They set those at 70 too? I heard they use to set everything at 70 but I haven't experienced that. Only 5 of my speakers can go below 70 and they're accurately set to 70. Surround backs and front height are 90-95 which lines up, as they're small bookshelves. Top middle and rear height get set to 120-145hz in dirac. That pretty much lines up too, as they are the angled atmos speakers. 140hz is very conservative but I have a bracket with a loose nut that vibrates at 120 so I think dirac reads it as distortion and sets it above that. Running dirac 3.9.7 paired to a marantz
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WhiteGhost
Enthusiast
That makes me wonder if DIRAC is setting mine right before doing room treatment I was seeing high crossovers in my heights and surrounds. Now I'm seeing 70hz on all speakers, they are all RSL in wall and in ceiling the in ceiling are dual 4.5" drivers and in walls are dual 5.25" drivers does this seem right? The in ceiling speakers have a freq response of 65 - 20 000hz and the in walls are 48 - 20 000hz. Does having them all set to 70hz make sense?
Sawtaytoes
Junior Audioholic
It doesn't matter what the frequency response is from the manufacturer (to some degree). What matters is how good the response is in your room and at the max volume you'll use. For me, that's 0dB. Do I watch media at 0dB? Only really old movies that aren't mixed well. Most everything else I can leave at -7dB or less.
But even at listening level, there are some demos that clearly cause that popping sound for me. If I listened softer, they sound fine.
What you want to do is try out those demos yourself at volume. Pick a slightly higher volume (so you have some headroom) and see how they sounds with a 70Hz crossover.
There's a Dolby 747 airplane overhead demo. That's a really good one to test with. Another one is the Unfold demo that has 4 words at the end (not 3). The one with 4 can cause bass hits in the heights.
Both of those had popping at -14dB for me with anything lower than 120Hz on my heights. My heights are Polk Reserve R900s.
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WhiteGhost
Enthusiast
I will test with those demos, I have turned it up in volume around -20 in music and no popping , I turned subs off to really tells what the speakers are doing they sound really clean at -20 which was rather loud I'm sure I can go up more but dang its loud. Don't get me wrong I like loud music as Im into car audio and have a huge system. At home i prefer solid clean audio. I wonder if it is the 100w rating on your polks vs the 150w RSL handling the power better with no distortion or bottoming out.
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PENG
Audioholic Slumlord
Flavio did recommend users to experiment with the crossover settings, as the default one set by DLBC, while it may be "excellent", might not be the best for you:
Dirac Live Bass Control and crossover frequencies | AVS Forum
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WhiteGhost
Enthusiast
Would it be wrong to just take all my in wall and in ceiling speakers and set them to 120hz and let the subs do what they do and have sub at 120hz. I know in my car audio I have 6.5" drivers and find 120hz has a really clean not muddy sound and have the 18" sub take care of the low end. I find 70, 80 100 to get muddy especially 70, 80 on drivers that are 6.5" and below. I guess my question is what would I be loosing and or gaining by setting all my theater speakers to 120hz or even 100hz?
Sawtaytoes
Junior Audioholic
You should actually set your subs to 250Hz or whatever the "full range" setting is. This lets them take in the full LFE channel and only stuff under 120Hz (with a drop-off) will go to the subs from your speakers.
I think 70-80Hz is best if you can pull it off since that's what most home theater speakers are designed for when at volume.
BUT, that's not exactly true for every use case. Your case of saying your speakers sound muddy could very well be the case. The issue is that as we increase frequency, the ability to localize those sounds becomes more prevalent. 120Hz is pretty high. I'd try 90Hz first and see how that works for you.
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My front speaker woofers are 8", but the sides and surrounds are all 6.5" like you said. It's possible you're more sensitive to that sound on the front speakers. Ideally, you'd keep your base layer speakers all at the same crossover so when sounds pan around, they don't disappear and come back.
I think 70-80Hz is best if you can pull it off since that's what most home theater speakers are designed for when at volume.
BUT, that's not exactly true for every use case. Your case of saying your speakers sound muddy could very well be the case. The issue is that as we increase frequency, the ability to localize those sounds becomes more prevalent. 120Hz is pretty high. I'd try 90Hz first and see how that works for you.
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My front speaker woofers are 8", but the sides and surrounds are all 6.5" like you said. It's possible you're more sensitive to that sound on the front speakers. Ideally, you'd keep your base layer speakers all at the same crossover so when sounds pan around, they don't disappear and come back.
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WhiteGhost
Enthusiast
Ok that's good info , I think the main concern for me is at volume and all speakers are in wall and in ceiling so not sure if they are really safe to play at high volume. I'm also thinking I have two massive subs that can take care of the lows would 120hz not be seamless with the LFE and speakers?
Sawtaytoes
Junior Audioholic
It's up to you and your ears. I don't have enough info nor experience to say either way. I can only speak to what others have told me.
Try it out.
Speakers being in-wall shouldn't affect their maximum output though. That's related to the drivers. All home theater speakers should be able to at least do the volume you'd use for content in your room. More expensive speakers can play louder, with less distortion, in a larger room.
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WhiteGhost
Enthusiast
Yes true, I'm just comparing to car audio as I have a high end system and can tell higher frequency dictates to cleaner less distorted sound especially when you have a large sub or subs for the low end.
lovinthehd
Audioholic Jedi
Doesn't always work that way.
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