speaker burn in

[ratso]

one of the things that seem to be disputed around here, and i have always agreed. recently, however, i ran across a couple of interesting articles that seem to show differently by danny the speaker builder who runs GR research. the interesting thing is he approaches this in a no BS sort of way and has a lot of numbers to back up what he says. hmm....

http://www.gr-research.com/burnin.htm

http://www.gr-research.com/myths.htm

 

[mtrycrafts]

one of the things that seem to be disputed around here, and i have always agreed. recently, however, i ran across a couple of interesting articles that seem to show differently by danny the speaker builder who runs GR research. the interesting thing is he approaches this in a no BS sort of way and has a lot of numbers to back up what he says. hmm....

http://www.gr-research.com/burnin.htm

http://www.gr-research.com/myths.htm

All he showed is that speaker measurement numbers will change and change back, not that this change is audible. He has not shown any evidence to point to audibility of the changes, just speculating, period, no matter how high he flaps his wings.

You should read the following as well, another very well respected person who has been dealing with speakers for a very long time, Richard Pierce. His post is towards the bottom. But, also read Stewart Pinkerton's responses

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.audio.high-end/browse_thread/thread/201143d330145d6c/7d26f5cc57ffd849?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=author:DPierce@world.std.com+and+speaker+break+in

and this

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.audio.high-end/msg/e52c59086811bd30?dmode=source&hl=en

and a google of other articles by him on this and similar issues

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=author:DPierce@world.std.com+and+speaker+break+in&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=55f3ca$opt@agate.berkeley.edu&rnum=1

Even Tom Nousaine wrote on this as well. He measured similar changes up and down, AND, he listened bias controlled.


Nousaine, Tom, 'Breaking Wind,' Car Stereo Review, Jan/Feb 1997, pg 90-94.

Nousaine, Tom 'Test Report: Dynaudio MW 190, 12" Subwoofer,' Car Stereo Review, Oct 1997, pg 83-88.

 

[MinusTheBear]

I would give those drivers a longer cooling down period besides just a few hours to see if the T/S parameters revert even further after a 12, 24 and 48 etc down period of not being used.

I think it is pretty much accepted that the T/S parameters change slightly once the voice coil heats up in the driver up significantly. The important aspect is how much the parameters change back to the original parameters. This is where this article is lacking any sort of depth.

 

[PENG]

I do not believe whoever designed the gear, speakers or amps could have a good way of predicting the final outcome from the time the product is new to the time it has 100, 500, 1000, 2000,.........hours of use and allowed for such effects ahead of time. I therefore ignore any claims of breakins making something sound better. Would they sound audibly different over time? Surely that is possible if we believe in science/properties of materials, but better? |Come on, why not worse, slighlty better, slightly worse or whatever...? All such claims are mostly due to the famous plaebo effect, people getting use to it, biased by hearsays, etc., nothing more.

 

[3db]

Speaker breakin? I prefer to call it beakin of my super computer sitting on my shoulders. The brain is very good at filling out missing blanks in the audio frequency spectrum. Once the speakers have broke in, the mental switch has been made upsatirs in teh attic.

 

[Swerd]

one of the things that seem to be disputed around here, and i have always agreed. recently, however, i ran across a couple of interesting articles that seem to show differently by danny the speaker builder who runs GR research. the interesting thing is he approaches this in a no BS sort of way and has a lot of numbers to back up what he says. hmm....

At first glance, it does seem like a no BS sort of approach to the burn-in question. But all his numbers really say is that he can measure T/S parameters on a woofer.

He can’t make any real conclusions about these before and after measurements because he didn’t try to answer the question if they are audible. That would require listening tests, along with some careful work to establish just how much the T/S parameters must change before they really do become audible. This is more difficult than just a bunch of measurements.

He would also have to measure more than one woofer. How much variation is there among 10 new woofers, and how much do they vary after they are burned in? Are the changes he observed after burn-in larger or smaller than the normal variation among these woofers? In other words, are his measurements big enough to be of possible interest? Remember that the T/S parameters of many woofers, fresh out of the box, are known to vary by ±10%. So this is not a picky or trivial question.

"The first principle of scientific inquiry is that you must not fool yourself – and that you are the easiest person to fool." Richard Feynman

 

[gmichael]

Speaker burn in? Maybe. I'll try to keep an open mind. It's cable burn in that I have trouble believing in.

 

[3db]

Speaker burn in? Maybe. I'll try to keep an open mind. It's cable burn in that I have trouble believing in.

Cables have real good burn in if you plug them into a wall outlet.

 

[gmichael]

Cables have real good burn in if you plug them into a wall outlet.

Or throw them in the fireplace.

 

[avnetguy]

I have found that receivers, speakers and even cables for that matter have a "burn in" period which they appear to sound amazing for approximately 18-26 days or so.

Coincidentally or not, this coincides with the "grace period" on my Visa card.

Steve

 

[FirstReflection]

I've taken speakers fresh out of the box, connected them for the first time and heard their sound change over time. But the amount of time was short!

In other words, it was about the amount of time needed for the voice coils to heat up. As far as I'm concerned, based on listening that is all the "break-in" that is necessary in order to evaluate a speaker.

 

[PENG]

Speakers breakin/burnin/whatever is real in for sme people and it can in fact work in two directions. Someone like ADTG will likely tell you after the breakin/burnin period they sound a lot worse and that resulted in him having to get another pair, and it goes on. For those who don't have the extra cash to burn, things usually goes the other way, i.e. it gets better after 1000 hours or more of use, after that the speakers will sound so good they feel no need to upgrade at all, until.....

 

[mtrycrafts]

Cables have real good burn in if you plug them into a wall outlet.

Just plugging them in is not enough. Just like plugging in an extension cord.
You have to connect the ends too.

 

[mtrycrafts]

.... For those who don't have the extra cash to burn, things usually goes the other way, .....

Ah, the elusive answer $$$$ in pocket and a desire to spend affects such perceptions.

 

[JimAckley]

I have found that receivers, speakers and even cables for that matter have a "burn in" period which they appear to sound amazing for approximately 18-26 days or so.

Coincidentally or not, this coincides with the "grace period" on my Visa card.

Steve

A quote worth all the money in the world

 

[ratso]

sorry for no response, stepped out of town overnite. no need to try to convince ME that it's a myth, as i stated i have always believed it. it just struck me that for once someone actually came forward with some numbers rather than the same old, "of course there's breakin, even my wife can hear the difference from the kitchen with the dishwasher on" blah blah blah. i am no speaker builder but it looked as if the numbers were substantially different as time was put on the woofers. as for whether these changes are audible, i will leave that to more knowledgeable people than me. so the general consensus is they are NOT audible then? or this can't be determined by f values, etc?

 

[mtrycrafts]

sorry for no response, stepped out of town overnite. no need to try to convince ME that it's a myth, as i stated i have always believed it. it just struck me that for once someone actually came forward with some numbers rather than the same old, "of course there's breakin, even my wife can hear the difference from the kitchen with the dishwasher on" blah blah blah. i am no speaker builder but it looked as if the numbers were substantially different as time was put on the woofers. as for whether these changes are audible, i will leave that to more knowledgeable people than me. so the general consensus is they are NOT audible then? or this can't be determined by f values, etc?

Well, psychoacoustics has a lot to do, actually, everything to do with what is audible change and what is not.
Human detection is best in the mid bands, 1kHz-4kHz area. Low frequencies, especially where that f value is at, the detection of differences is not so good at all. Similarly as you go up in frequency. Level changes, frequency changes, etc.

What is not really shown in the link is what happens when the speaker rested for some time, days, as it will in your home? What happens when you don't drive the daylouts out of them with a test tone but use a movie and come back and measure it the day after tomorrow?
It appears the author wanted to show one side of the story, his side.
And, the only way to know for sure is to test for audibility. Who know, you or someone yet to be tested has the ability to hear better than those in past testing?

 

[cornelius]

When a reviewer says that the speakers sounded terrible at first, then they let the speakers burn-in to get them to sound right - the review loses all credibility for me. As long as the speakers are stabilized at room temperature there shouldn't be a problem...

If something doesn't sound right from the first note, IMO, that impression is important. It just means that your brain hasn't adjusted to the new sound. I bet if most readers here switched out their beloved speakers for an old pair of Yamaha NS-10s - they'd cringe. For me, after so many years of hearing them over and over, they actually sound familiar and comfortable. I wouldn't swap out my Harbeths for a pair, but NS-10s don't bother me like they did in the beginning.

 

[gmichael]

Just plugging them in is not enough. Just like plugging in an extension cord.
You have to connect the ends too.

How about if I drop the ends in the tub while taking a bubble bath? I love the smell of burnt flesh.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You will never need any speaker break-ins if you have real subwoofers.