Sound from PC games cutting out

TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
Hi-Ho, I have had another thought overnight.

The bass on that clip you sent really shook my house. I'm wondering if your receiver has a solder joint going try, and the vibration is revealing an intermittent connection on your processing board.

As I think about it, this explanation would make the most sense.
 
Hi Ho

Hi Ho

Audioholic Samurai
I don't think it's a solder connection. I messed with it a bit more this evening. I took a device home from work that audibly measures noise in the AC lines. When I plug that device into most of the outlets in my house it is silent. However, when I plug it into the outlet where the sub is plugged in it is very loud even when the sub is turned off.

This video may still be processing on Youtube so it may look like crap.

I don't have a scope and I doubt I could bring one home from work. What I find to be really interesting and baffling is the fact that this problem only crops up when playing audio from my PC. As you can see in the video, the audio drops out for a split second when I plug the sub power in (with the sub turned off) when playing audio from the PC. It does NOT drop out when playing audio from the Dish DVR.
 
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TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
I don't think it's a solder connection. I messed with it a bit more this evening. I took a device home from work that audibly measures noise in the AC lines. When I plug that device into most of the outlets in my house it is silent. However, when I plug it into the outlet where the sub is plugged in it is very loud even when the sub is turned off.

This video may still be processing on Youtube so it may look like crap.

I don't have a scope and I doubt I could bring one home from work. What I find to be really interesting and baffling is the fact that this problem only crops up when playing audio from my PC. As you can see in the video, the audio drops out for a split second when I plug the sub power in (with the sub turned off) when playing audio from the PC. It does NOT drop out when playing audio from the Dish DVR.
I think we might be getting closer to the fault.

I can tell your sub amp has a miserable computer type switching power supply, which most do.

As you will see there is no power transformer.

The significance of all this is that the load it takes from the house AC power supply is highly discontinuous. The result is loads to neutral that house wiring was never designed for and generally still isn't. Some jurisdictions are now starting to change new building electrical codes because of this problem.

The other thing you will see, is that the input stage of those power supplies is always active whether turned on or not, which is why you get the buzz when you plug it in.

What I can tell is that the circuit your sub is plugged into has severe neutral gouging. This may have come about, by your sub chronically overloading your neutral, and you may have a hazardous situation developing.

I can not exclude the possibility your sub power supply and causing neutral gouging above and beyond its design criteria. These power supplies are notoriously fault prone as sub power supplies. Horror stories abound!

Your computer also has one of these power supplies, they all do.

So I think your sub and computer power supplies are interacting because of a neutral gouging problem. So it is your computer that is interrupting the bit stream, when your sub really puts the hash down the neutral line.

So job one for you is to have that neutral line checked.

Unfortunately electrical codes have allowed neutrals to be shared between multiple circuits! This was done on the assumption that neutrals carried little current. This used to be so, but not in the modern home.

However with the introduction of these power supplies, especially devices like your sub, neutrals can become overloaded. This results in heat build up at splices and terminations, with further deterioration of neutral capacity.

I hardly need to point out that neutral overload does not trip breakers, just burns your house down. I have been called out by local artisans puzzled by alarming situations on neutral terminations, and even a case of repeated blow out of a pole transformer due to neutral gouging. I think I have the local artisans alert to the problem now, including the local electrical inspector.

So these are Carter's rules for staying out of trouble from this problem with your audio equipment in house that has standard house wiring practice.

Don't use subs with plate amps. Use amps with traditional power supplies in their amps.

Isolate computers from your system, and always use an external sound processor, never one powered from a computer power supply. The sound processor should have its own power supply with a mains transformer.
 
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Hi Ho

Hi Ho

Audioholic Samurai
That sounds like a logical explanation.

What is neutral gouging? Google comes up with "price gouging"...

I am not sure that the sub has a switching power supply. It has a rather large torroidial transformer on it. I'm pretty sure it's a class A/B amp.



http://rythmikaudio.com/amplifiers_info.html

Also, my PC is on a UPS. If the problem is in the power lines then unplugging the UPS from the wall and running the PC on battery power would eliminate it. Right?

I will have to wait till tomorrow afternoon before I can do more experimentation.
 
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TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
That sounds like a logical explanation.

What is neutral gouging? Google comes up with "price gouging"...

I am not sure that the sub has a switching power supply. It has a rather large torroidial transformer on it. I'm pretty sure it's a class A/B amp.



http://rythmikaudio.com/amplifiers_info.html

Also, my PC is on a UPS. If the problem is in the power lines then unplugging the UPS from the wall and running the PC on battery power would eliminate it. Right?

I will have to wait till tomorrow afternoon before I can do more experimentation.
If you have the A series it is an A/B amp. If H series class H.

Either way an amp like that should not be putting all that hash on the AC line, so that needs an explanation.

Neutral gouging is when the neutrals are taking current beyond there design parameter.

Your idea of doing a test running the computer from battery is a good one.

It is starting to narrow own, to a failing sub amp versus a neutral problem in your house.
 
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Hi Ho

Hi Ho

Audioholic Samurai
I was going to try the game with the UPS unplugged but the tech at work told me to also try plugging the sub into a different circuit. I grabbed a heavy extension cord and ran it to one of the bedrooms. I still get a lot of noise from that noise device when I plug it into that different circuit. However.... when I played the game... the sound did NOT cut out. I turned it up significantly louder than earlier tests and the sound came out loud and clear shaking the whole house without a single drop out.

So, a different circuit eliminated the issue. I'm guessing it's time to have the wiring checked.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
I was going to try the game with the UPS unplugged but the tech at work told me to also try plugging the sub into a different circuit. I grabbed a heavy extension cord and ran it to one of the bedrooms. I still get a lot of noise from that noise device when I plug it into that different circuit. However.... when I played the game... the sound did NOT cut out. I turned it up significantly louder than earlier tests and the sound came out loud and clear shaking the whole house without a single drop out.

So, a different circuit eliminated the issue. I'm guessing it's time to have the wiring checked.
I don't understand why the amp is making all that hash, I don't think it should.

I suspect your wiring is OK, but the bedroom does not share a neutral with your computer.

If your wiring checks out, I doubt you have seen the last of your problems with that sub amp.
 
Hi Ho

Hi Ho

Audioholic Samurai
I think I will take the sub in and have the tech check it. Also, I don't know that it means anything, but when I plug the noise device into the outlet just down the wall (on the same circuit) I get no noise from the sub. I only get the noise when I plug it into the same outlet.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
I think I will take the sub in and have the tech check it. Also, I don't know that it means anything, but when I plug the noise device into the outlet just down the wall (on the same circuit) I get no noise from the sub. I only get the noise when I plug it into the same outlet.
The problem is neutrals can flow independent of the live. The Circuit breaker is in the live end. However the hash may be dissipating along numerous pathways as you increase your distance from the sub. There is obviously something upsetting your computer when the sub is in proximity.
 
Hi Ho

Hi Ho

Audioholic Samurai
Assuming no faults are found in the sub amp, might a surge suppressor with power filtration help? Running an extension cord to another room is rather inconveinient. :)
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
Assuming no faults are found in the sub amp, might a surge suppressor with power filtration help? Running an extension cord to another room is rather inconveinient. :)
I doubt that would work. Running a dedicated 20 amp circuit probably would.
 
Hi Ho

Hi Ho

Audioholic Samurai
I took home a Panamax MFP-300 surge suppressor/power filter from work and plugged the sub into it. There is no more noise at either the wall outlet or the second outlet on the Panamax unit. The problem with the sound dropping out is completely gone.
 
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TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
I took home a Panamax MFP-300 surge suppressor/power filter from work and plugged the sub into it. There is no more noise at either the wall outlet or the second outlet on the Panamax unit. The problem with the sound dropping out is completely gone.
Interesting that it blocked in reverse. I still think there has to be a power supply problem with your sub amp.
 
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