something lost

[jcparks]

So I have been doing some extensive listening tests with my emp E5bi book shelves. While I love the warm tone of these speakers and the awesome sound stage.. I'm noticing that at the higher volumes they will loose some of the intricate details in some of the music I listen to.
Some examples:
When listening to Mumford and sons, Sigh no More, The banjo during the chorus is a lot more quiet then what I would like it to be and is almost lost to the other interments.
When listening to Avenged Sevenfold, I will often loose the intricate guitar fills. They are there, but you have to actually listen for them, they aren't as in your face as the crunchy rhythm guitar, drums, or vocals.
All of the music that I listen to is on google music played through Chromecast.
Is this a trade off for the beautiful mid-range that I get and the low price of these speakers? If so, when I am looking for a new stereo pair of front later, what can I look for what will give me the warm mid range that I really like as well as those details that I seem to be loosing right now?
Also how much is there to be gained if I buy a decent turntable or CD player and switch to physical media as opposed to digital?
Thanks as always

 

[Irvrobinson]

Have you tried tuning the position of the speakers? Changing the toe-in, for example?

 

[jcparks]

I have done some toe in tests... but I have to invest in some stands to spread them out a bit before can play with the positioning more. Audyssey has them at 14' right and 15' left away from my listening position, and there is about 50 inches in between them. Is there that much to be gained with the right positioning?

 

[ImcLoud]

Keep in mind they are a $225 set of bookshelfs, did you try to remove the grills? Maybe for music try to play them in direct stereo mode... That's what I would try, point them directly at your listening position {if they are wide enough}, and as far from any walls as possible, remove the grills, run the receiver direct and try the music again...

If that fails maybe consider getting a nice little music only setup {I am a slut for pushing these}, something simple like a dayton apa150 and a pair of the epos epic 2's {50% off at musicdirect}... I am sure you will get much more detail in your top end...

 

[Irvrobinson]

I have done some toe in tests... but I have to invest in some stands to spread them out a bit before can play with the positioning more. Audyssey has them at 14' right and 15' left away from my listening position, and there is about 50 inches in between them. Is there that much to be gained with the right positioning?

50" is very narrow spacing. Eight feet will work much better. Some speakers have rather poor high frequency dispersion, you need to be staring down the throats of the tweeters, so to speak, to get the high frequency results. Positioning can be very important.

 

[jcparks]

Ok waited for my wife to leave the house and dug my homemade speaker stands out of storage. Put seven feet in between the speakers aimed them right at my head, pulled the grills off and used various listening modes. Direct configured as large speakers, and stereo mode with audyssey on. My source material is Avenged Sevenfold's nightmare album played from google music on WIFI. The third track on the album "Danger line" approximately 3 minutes into the song. When played on my living room system which includes: EMP E5bi's attached to a Marantz nr1504 receiver with a SVS SB2000 subwoofer. The Guitar fill is almost completely lost in both direct and audyssey modes.
I played the song on my computer system which includes: a lepai lp200 stereo amp connected to a set of energy take 2 speakers and an 8" powered energy subwoofer. While the guitar fill on that portion of the song is still hard to hear over the rest of the music, it is clearly more audible. With exception of that small difference the two systems don't even compare, its hard for me to even listen to music on my computer anymore.
I realize my Emp's are a very inexpensive set of speakers and regardless of this I am still very satisfied with my purchase... I guess I am just starting to listen to things more critically now.
Will continue to mess around with positioning to see if i cant get different results.

 

[zieglj01]

... I guess I am just starting to listen to things more critically now.

And that is how it all really begins - that desire for more, and soon after that ..........................!

 

[ImcLoud]

And that is how it all really begins - that desire for more, and soon after that ..........................!

Z has it right, you start trying to pull out a certain nuance that your speakers can't reach and then its like a snow ball effect... For $350 EPOS EPIC 2 BOOKSHELF SPEAKERS (CHERRY) **DEMO** at Music Direct you will be amazed at the difference, then if you step up to $850 for philharmonitors or Ascends you get a little better, step up to $1500 for sierra 2's , kef ls50's, ect and you will get another step in a positive direction... The sky is the limit... But I like them epos epics for critical music listening, they do the job and with a nice direct path and clean recording you will be floored... Keep in mind they are an $800 set of speakers so you will notice much better build quality and components as well as the sound difference... The emps weigh around 6 1/2 lbs each and the epic 2's are all of 20lbs each, lol... I think the big difference is going to be the midrange and tweeter, I like the epic tweeters, its very nice sounding...

Anyway, just a thought, keep playing with spacing but as I tell a lot of members, some times you are as good as you can get.. Try making the tweeters level with your ears...

 

[jcparks]

I do have plans for new stereo fronts in the future sometime... However I really don't want to upgrade my center (mainly because I so rarely watch movies, and I'm cheap) Those Epos definitely have my attention with that price, but I'm also intrigued by the Philharmonitors, mainly because I want to hear that ribbon tweeter. I am also considering a higher end pair of RBH SX61's because I thought they may pair with my center better then a different brand.
Before I purchase any of this though I gotta get a second SVS SB2000 to smooth out my bass response.
Boy I see quite a bit of overtime shifts in my future...

 

[ImcLoud]

If you are interested in ribbons check out the carnegie csb1's for $400 {also half price}.... I have a pair and they are about my favorite bookshelfs, and I have pairs that cost around $2000...

 

[zieglj01]

Another speaker to explore and I would put on a short list,
MB Quart Alexxa B1 - on close out pricing and built good
AS-B1PB (Pair)*| MB Quart

For a ribbon speaker - look at the Rhyme Acoustics NuScale 216
The speaker is shipped complete
The Madisound Speaker Store

 

[jcparks]

Really like the carnegie's do you have a link for where I can get them at that price ImcLoud?

 

[zieglj01]

Ohhh they are friggin attractive too. Do you have a link for where I can purchase at that price?

Which one are you talking about?

 

[jcparks]

Oh I like that the MB comes in white... I was noticing though it lists the power handling range at 70-140 watts. My AVR only puts out 50wpc. Would that be a problem?

 

[zieglj01]

Oh I like that the MB comes in white... I was noticing though it lists the power handling range at 70-140 watts. My AVR only puts out 50wpc. Would that be a problem?

Not really - if you have up to 50 watts clean power per channel, you should be fine

 

[ImcLoud]

Really like the carnegie's do you have a link for where I can get them at that price ImcLoud?

Give Danny a call 940-592-3400, you wont be disappointed by any means...
http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af107/turbobike1/guestsuite_zpsc5f17ef3.jpg
I power mine with a pair of outlaw audio mono blocks, mine are crossed around 70hz to a pair of svs nsd subs, the entire system with amps, stands, parasound preamp, subs and speakers cost me around $2000!!! I have yet to hear anything as good for any where near that price...

My brother spent more than that buying a pair of imagine minis and rel subs that have nowhere near the output as this {although them minis sound really good too}... There are a lot of speakers out there, I like a music only system where you can test out and try anything you can plug into it for a little while, I have been getting rid of some gear here and there { have a few auctions on ebay ending today actually}, but the csb1's I don't think I will ever part with, they are my favorite speaker for $400, I like the epos on sale too, but the csb's are better to my ears, plus better finish, and with the audiophile terminals, magnetic grills, sloped front baffles, rite down to the embroidered velour covers they are a class act for sure... You put them with a pair of piano black sb2000's and you have one really nice 2.2 system...

 

[GranteedEV]

the EMP E5Bis use a relatively inexpensive 5" midwoofer crossed 2nd-order to a relatively inexpensive tweeter. They have their limits. I still recommend a subwoofer before anything else, but you may want to look at some beefy towers too. Bookshelf speakers will always have their limitations, especially in the lower midrange.