So Obama shows he is nothing new......

[annunaki]

I think pzaur has been the closest so far here is stating that the two party system is broken.

Neither party truly represents the people anymore. They only represent who is financing their next election campaign. There is too much money flowing into Washington, and now, even on the state levels. If candidates would actually run on what is true and right for America and it's Citizens, regardless of the liberal media backlash, they would win. This goes at all levels of govenrment.

Get rid of fundrasing campaigns and have real debates from real people with real uncensored questions. Put the candidates in the hotseat so we can see who and what they are really all about. They have to answer the question, no dodging. This isn't dodgeball, it is the presidency of the United States. Yo have to give them props because Bill and Hillary could beat any dodgeball team in the world they are so great at dodging.

Someone stated before that voting for someone other than one of the big two parties is a wasted vote. The thing that is wasted is by voting for one of the two is your vote and your voice. People expect change but they keep voting for the exact same two parties, who are more or less the same thing, since neither of them get anything done that is right for the Country. If people would stop voting the same candidates into office every year at local levels all the way up, you might see things change. Everytime someone wastes a vote on someone they do not believe is a good choice, but did it because their choice "didn't have a chance", a little more of the real America dies.

It is a good thing that people during the Revolutionary war did not see things this way, or we would be a rather large English colony. If I remember correctly, 13 little colonies beat out the premier military power in the world in securing their freedom.

One definition of insanity is to continue to do the same action but expect a different result each time. Voting Demican or Republicrat in this country has begun to reach these levels. All of these politicians put on the shiny clothes and wonderful speeches during election time to make everyone feel good about their choice. After the elections it is the same old same old, pimp your special interest groups and pander to who is going to support your re-election campaign. Screw the people that voted you in, they were blind enough before, they will be blind enough again.

 

[majorloser]

But unless you can get rid of the Electoral College the vote of the independent won't mean much toward a Presidential election.

 

[Warpdrv]

annunaki, you are the true winner of this debate....

The United States will never get out from under our governments dictatorship until something changes in the way "We, the People" step up to the plate and walk away from the same 'ol, same 'ol ways that things are done. Its all sweet and nice to hear about politicians preaching "CHANGE", How about we see some.

The President is only one person, and people seem to forget its not just that one person that runs/ruins our country, but the people that the president is surrounded by, top level officials that report to the president, (or is it HAVE HIS EAR) but lets also not forget the advisor's, image consultants, spin control committees to sway and mold the publics eye of how to view said ruling body.

The president has merely become nothing but a spokesperson for the powers that be.

People, lets think outside the box... thus far there are only two people left in that box.... Are either truly worthy of representing "WE, THE PEOPLE"?

 

[annunaki]

But unless you can get rid of the Electoral College the vote of the independent won't mean much toward a Presidential election.

That would be one minor step of a major house cleaning if it were up to me.

 

[rnatalli]

I hope the rest of the voters out there are a little more selective in their reasoning than this... this isn't tryouts for Little League after all.

Obama graduated in the top 1% of his class at Harvard. McCain graduated close to last. Having survived Harvard myself, graduating in the top 1% is no cakewalk. To be fair, education doesn't necessarily make good presidents, but does show Obama's no dummy. Although I don't agree with many of Obama's positions, I feel they're well-thought, well-prepared, and make more sense than McCain's positions. In the end, graduating in the top 1% of Harvard or spending several years as a POW does not make one a president.

I think Annunaki has it right. Voting these days is basically choosing the lesser of two evils. Put either McCain or Obama in office and nothing will change for most people. I for one will still vote as a choosing the lesser of two evils is better than not being able to vote at all.

 

[Halon451]

Obama graduated in the top 1% of his class at Harvard. McCain graduated close to last. Having survived Harvard myself, graduating in the top 1% is no cakewalk. To be fair, education doesn't necessarily make good presidents, but does show Obama's no dummy. Although I don't agree with many of Obama's positions, I feel they're well-thought, well-prepared, and make more sense than McCain's positions. In the end, graduating in the top 1% of Harvard or spending several years as a POW does not make one a president.

I think Annunaki has it right. Voting these days is basically choosing the lesser of two evils. Put either McCain or Obama in office and nothing will change for most people. I for one will still vote as a choosing the lesser of two evils is better than not being able to vote at all.

I certainly agree with that. I don't believe that Obama is a dummy, if he was he wouldn't have made it this far to be sure. However, his platform of "Change" is a catch-phrase that can easily lead people to avoid the actual positions he is taking on various major issues, issues that could severely affect our country's well-being. Everyone is so tired of the Bush administration that they are ready to rally behind anything that represents such change without truly examining what that entails. As has been stated before, change can be for the better or for the worse, and in Obama's case, I believe it to be for the worse. McCain is no prize, and yes... I will begrudgingly carry myself to the polls in November and cast one vote for what I deem the lesser of two evils. Sad that it's what we have to work with in these difficult times, but what can you do. My argument rests entirely on the fact that this process began way before we had the two appointed nominees on both sides of the political fence, and if more people pay attention up front, eventually we may actually have a candidate that can truly make a difference in future elections. It's going to take a whole lot of waking up though...

 

[Davemcc]

Yes, annunaki is correct. The ONLY thing sustaining the two party system is individual's votes. If people continue to vote for a lesser candidate simply because they CAN win, always means the lesser candidate wins. The reasons to vote for a third candidate, whether or not they can win, is to place your ballot with the BEST candidate, to vote with the candidate who most closely your closely held beliefs and to publicly support your beliefs through your candidate. If millions of people agree with you and vote this way, a third or fourth party can become strong enough to influence public policy or even win the government. Not voting for the best candidate, or not voting for the candidate that best represents you is a sign of weakness...an admission that your beliefs and opinions are not worth making a public statement or that your own beliefs and opinions are not worth supporting at the ballot box.

Another way to think about this - If you never support the best candidate, you never get the best person in power. The two party system can only be changed by your public support of the best candidate and your vote for the person that most closely represents your opinion.

 

[rnatalli]

I certainly agree with that. I don't believe that Obama is a dummy, if he was he wouldn't have made it this far to be sure. However, his platform of "Change" is a catch-phrase that can easily lead people to avoid the actual positions he is taking on various major issues, issues that could severely affect our country's well-being. Everyone is so tired of the Bush administration that they are ready to rally behind anything that represents such change without truly examining what that entails. As has been stated before, change can be for the better or for the worse, and in Obama's case, I believe it to be for the worse. McCain is no prize, and yes... I will begrudgingly carry myself to the polls in November and cast one vote for what I deem the lesser of two evils. Sad that it's what we have to work with in these difficult times, but what can you do. My argument rests entirely on the fact that this process began way before we had the two appointed nominees on both sides of the political fence, and if more people pay attention up front, eventually we may actually have a candidate that can truly make a difference in future elections. It's going to take a whole lot of waking up though...

I agree with you. The platform of change is simply a catch-phrase, but everything during campaigns are such and Obama was clever to choose this platform at the beginning. I've read in-depth both McCain's and Obama's positions and 90% of them on both sides will never make it through congress anyways. I feel Obama will win this election simply because people like hearing about change, but this is the wrong reason why he should win. I don't expect any awakening soon as history has shown this pattern over and over again. On the plus side, at least HRC isn't going anywhere

 

[jinjuku]

What I would like to see is what you think WOULD change. Say a libertarian or green candidate won. Lets say Ralph Nader or Cynthia McKinney.

How would we be a better nation?

 

[annunaki]

I think Annunaki has it right. Voting these days is basically choosing the lesser of two evils. Put either McCain or Obama in office and nothing will change for most people. I for one will still vote as a choosing the lesser of two evils is better than not being able to vote at all.

While I do agree to an extent, the change begins with educating your fellow man. I don't mean get into a political argument, just explain your position with a solid coherent idea. Idea's bring about change. Change is in one's actions and what they are willing to do to bring it about.

 

[annunaki]

It is too convenient to just click the All Republicrat or All Demican ticket. People with money are beginning to realize that the American Sheeple are lazy and don't really care anymore. They don't care because they feel no matter who gets in nothing will change. Little do they realize they are the source of the issue at hand. Take pride in your country. If the Sheeple put as much effort into caring about the political system and were active with it as they are keeping up with the Jones' we would have fewer problems.

I have no doubts that some here would do very well as local city council men/women or distric representatives or better. However, what mainly holds people back? Money. This country is so greedy, everything revolves around it. Who wins elections, those with cash. Why, because they get their name out on the TV more than the other guy and the public never really sees what they are truly about. The whole political/election system now depends upon who has the most cash.

A district representative seat here in WI (for the US House) cost both candidates well over a million a pop last election. State representative seats are nearing $400K. The people who could make the difference can't afford to run.

From Wiki:

Kagen's narrow 51%-49% victory has been largely attributed to his substantial personal spending and the national Democratic wave in the 2006 elections, as well as a 10% margin of victory in his native Outagamie County, home to Appleton. Kagen also narrowly defeated Gard in Brown County, home to Green Bay, winning by less than 1,000 votes. Kagen narrowly lost Gard's home county[[Marinette County, Wisconsin|Marinette County].[1] Kagen is only the third Democrat to represent the 8th District since World War II.

All candidates who are running for any office should have to hold debates to let the public decide who to vote for. On a state level, the candidates should have to debate in each township/county they represent up until the election. Governors in nearly ever county. Same with Senators. Presidential candidates should have 25-50 debates one in each state or every two states. Nationally televised (locally televised for lower offices). Open forum no censored questions, so real questions get asked. Again, no dodging.

 

[rnatalli]

We shouldn't forget that having our system setup this way has some positives. I'm not so sure I want to see a democratic president, democratic house, and democratic senate all at the same time. Some political gridlock isn't always a bad thing.

 

[Tarub]

Anyone who refers to President Bush is an idiot, moron, stupid or any other way to put it is showing us more of their own lack of intelligence than any proof of George Bush's.....say what you want but he would not get to where he is at by being stupid. It takes a basic lack of intelligence to assume or assert our President is a moron and I am glad these folks will never be considered for President.

For Obama

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[majorloser]

But the DAV did force him to wear the flag (good for them)

Fro me, I want somebody who has served in this country's armed forces and LOVES this country.

 

[Mort Corey]

We shouldn't forget that having our system setup this way has some positives. I'm not so sure I want to see a democratic president, democratic house, and democratic senate all at the same time. Some political gridlock isn't always a bad thing.

I agree....gridlock is probably the best the country can hope for in the realm of retaining what's left of liberty.

The last time I was faced with choices such as these two clowns was McGovern vs Nixon....at the time I voted for Cleaver as the straightest shooter (in many ways) of the bunch.

Mort

 

[rnatalli]

Fro me, I want somebody who has served in this country's armed forces and LOVES this country.

This was not during the pledge of allegiance. Here he is doing it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIyBwkuqF4E

Wanting to vote for someone who served in the military is a valid reason, but don't believe everything you see and hear. Here's a funny clip. It's leftist propaganda, but funny nonetheless:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_03IRTw3Bag

 

[speakerman39]

Speakerman, I wasnt talking to you diectly as this is an opinion held by many so it was just a general opinion of mine and I hope you didnt take it as an attack.

No worries Chad. I did not take anything personally as many hold my views as well. This is why my Mother always use to say "Don't You Know Better Not To Discuss Politics In Public". In other words, my Mom more or less was saying talking politics usually results in people just getting ticked off-some more than others in which nothing really gets accomplished. I do, however, respect your opinion even though it differs from mine.

Cheers,

Phil

 

[rnatalli]

No worries Chad. I did not take anything personally as many hold my views as well. This is why my Mother always use to say "Don't You Know Better Not To Discuss Politics In Public". In other words, my Mom more or less was saying talking politics usually results in people just getting ticked off-some more than others in which nothing really gets accomplished. I do, however, respect your opinion even though it differs from mine.

Cheers,

Phil

Wise words. With politics behind us, let's move on to something simpler like religion

 

[jamie2112]

Wise words. With politics behind us, let's move on to something simpler like religion

Now thats funny!!!!

 

[speakerman39]

For those who want to impugn John McCain by transferring their malice towards President Bush to Mr. McCain, I must say the Mr. McCain is nothing like President Bush. That much is evident even beyond the borders of the United States.

Mr. McCain has dedicated his life to the service of the United States, even to the point of placing his service to the country over his own life. Remember, he was given the option of being released as a POW because of his father's position. He chose to remain a POW until ALL POW's were released. That is a mark of dedication, integrity and honor. It may have been 40 years since those events, but he has consistently shown that same dedication, honor, integrity and service to his country over those 40 years.

Further, Mr. McCain is well known for his bipartisan dealings with liberal Democrats. One of the key arguments against McCain by Republicans is that he is too liberal and too likely to carry out key points of the liberal agenda. However it may be seen by die-hard Republicans, it should be clear that McCain is willing to support any idea that he sees in the best interest of the nation, regardless of whether those ideas are initiated on the Democrat or Republican side of the House.

It should also be noted that McCain's length and breadth of service gives him the knowledge, experience and perspective to make intelligent decisions regarding the future of the country. When you compare Mr. McCain's record of service against any other potential candidate, nobody else can show show such a longstanding record of dedicated and ethical service, nor can they show a record of his willingness to accept ideas from across the aisle that would be beneficial to the nation.

Obama barely has a record of public service, his motives and integrity are subject to question due to his church's questionable radical political agenda and his campaign appears bereft of concrete proposals to deal with the nation's foreign or domestic concerns. By any measurable standard, Obama pales in comparison to McCain's lifetime of dedicated, honorable service to the country.

Dave, I too respect the service McCain has given this country of ours. IMHO, his views are very much in-line with George Bush. Maybe not to the point of calling him a puppet so to speak, but very much so nonetheless. I, on the other hand, will vote for Obama. At least with him, the poor people have a chance. If you prefer McCain that is fine by me as you are entitled to your opinion as well. This is what makes America so great-we can vote for whomever we want.

Cheers,

Phil