So earlier today I start typing...

Resident Loser

Resident Loser

Senior Audioholic
...a response to the Bose/Paradigm thread and by the time I get around to posting,"...pffft, it was gone..." or rather, locked...cheez that s*cked, with a capital s*ck...so anyway, here goes nuttin'...in it's entirety, and then some:

Let me preface my remarks with this...sorry Mulester, I think the idea of 'piggy-backing" two Bose EQs is not a good one...and that is exactly what you are saying you are doing...one patched between the pre-outs of your receiver or pre-amp and another in the tape loop...daisy-chain style...it may not appear to be so, but it is the case...with 36dB boost@35Hz, under the right conditions, you could quite possibly damage the drivers...also, BTW, Series I and II EQs are apparently substantially different from subsequent ones and Bose, at their website advises against mixing vintages. Series I and II were acoustic suspension designs, the latter ported.

Now for the good stuff...I reiterate my earlier post to some degree(particularly since it elicited no responses)...I suppose it's my wishful thinking or vivid imagination that I enjoy deep, accurate and articulate bass with my 901s...perhaps my SPL meter is also delusional!

No' Bose doesn't post FR specs...if the response curve(in my listening room) is as ragged as I seem to have discovered, not a good selling point to reveal it, so in that respect I'll agree...don't ask, don't tell...sell, sell, sell...but to say the nine drivers w/EQing are incapable of pushing air...I strongly disagree...when I hear(and moreover feel) things like E. Power Biggs pedal work on something like Bach's "Toccata And Fugue" I have to laugh at the mere notion of such criticisms...and again the 901-IIs are my point of reference...I'll refer you to my earlier post(in the other thread) for other examples in the rock or jazz idioms.

The nine drivers, as a unified group, each with a +/- .25in. excursion can move air...if the units are well designed and of sufficient power handling capacity, with the proper EQing they can produce a FR outside their nominal frequency range...particularly if we are stating a range with +/- 3dB...perhaps there is a drop to -8dB@40Hz, if you can augment that electronically and the voice coils can handle the required power and your amp has the capacity to supply it, there is no reason why the low-end cannot be extended sufficiently...and in actual practice it is a reality...in this case an 18dB boost is applied @35Hz. I use an HK Citation 19 power amp rated 100Wpc RMS@8ohms, both channels driven...capable of 200w@ 4ohms and even with all the Bose EQing and subsequent processing from my SAE half-octave unit, I use about two-and-a-half watts under normal listening conditions. As acoustic suspension units, they are not particularly efficient speakers.

Other manufacturers have done it...I recall the NY Hi-Fi show at the Statler-Hilton, back in '77...Philips had a demo room that contained two, fairly sizable loudspeaker enclosures, each perhaps 2/3 the size of a Klipschorn and they were spotlighted for dramatic effect...or so it seemed...the sound produced was commensurate with what one would expect for such enclosures, particularly the bass response...the kicker was, at some point in the presentation, the lighting was changed, revealing the "speakers" were actually a scrim on wooden frames, behind which sat a speaker roughly the size of an attache' case and twice its thickness...and audible gasp or groan or some such of disbelief was heard from the audience...Philips called the servo-controlled EQd system "David" alluding to the Biblical tale...but enough ancient history...

To continue, I suppose the deep and wide soundstage and proper instrument placement I perceive is also a figment of my imagination...along with the phantom center-image...well, as long as it's in the source material, that is...and again, everything doesn't sound great or spectacular, so it's not a case of self-(or substance-)induced euphonics.

Anywho...anyone who carps about the use of equalization or other processing , should really investigate how much goes on "behind the scenes" in the production and re-production of recorded sound, all with no ill effects. There is, if I recall correctly, some 16 to 20dB of bass boost applied by the RIAA curve in your phono pre-amp and an equal amount of treble attentuation, all in an effort to undo the pre-and de-emphasis required to cut the analog signal into the master...and digital...DON"T GET ME STARTED...

Tone controls and/or equalizers are considered verboten by the "golden ears" among us...to which I reply, poppycock...it's the incorrect and injudicious use of them where problems can arise. Put it into perspective, all the loaded, vented, ported loudspeaker systems pretty much apply the same concept, however they do it mechanically...

As previously stated, the 901s require a different mind set to fully appreciate them IMHO.

If anyone would like to take this out of the realm of a "joke" and discuss the matter further, keep the thread going and I will respond as time permits.

jimHJJ(...thank you for your time and indulgence...)
 
Tom Andry

Tom Andry

Speaker of the House
It's the Thread of the Undead! It won't die, it just comes back stronger! Clint, your puny powers of thread locking will be of no avail! It can't be stopped. It can't be reasoned with. It knows no punctuation outside of .... !

Truth be told, the Bose marketing department has finally succeeded in sacrificing the requisite number of virgins to raise from the depths a being that can not only annoy all clear thinking non-bose-ites, but respond to its own posts all the while saying ....tttttttttttwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwoooooooooo.....!

Don't give in to its evil! It will hound you! It will annoy you! It will not succumb to any form of logical, fact-based argument! The only cure is to ignore it. All other actions, especially starting new threads, will only feed energy back to the marketing department allowing them to create more of these zombie-bose-ites. Beware! Beware! Beware!!!!!!!!!!!! I hear it coming now!

.........ttttttttttttttwwwwwwwwwwwwoooooooooooooooo........
 
mulester7

mulester7

Audioholic Samurai
.....Resident, you are anything but a loser....I can't make this any simpler....screw the jokes....screw the humor....try two....any series two....they all do the same thing....get back....
 
sts9fan

sts9fan

Banned
Please Please Please

Drop it.

Mu-lester likes bose and spamming messageboards for lets drop it. ;)
 
mulester7

mulester7

Audioholic Samurai
.....Sts9fan, I could care less if Bose bottoms up tomorrow....I don't own any and don't plan to.....
 
mulester7

mulester7

Audioholic Samurai
mrnomas said:
It's the Thread of the Undead! It won't die, it just comes back stronger! Clint, your puny powers of thread locking will be of no avail! It can't be stopped. It can't be reasoned with. It knows no punctuation outside of .... !

Truth be told, the Bose marketing department has finally succeeded in sacrificing the requisite number of virgins to raise from the depths a being that can not only annoy all clear thinking non-bose-ites, but respond to its own posts all the while saying ....tttttttttttwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwoooooooooo.....!

Don't give in to its evil! It will hound you! It will annoy you! It will not succumb to any form of logical, fact-based argument! The only cure is to ignore it. All other actions, especially starting new threads, will only feed energy back to the marketing department allowing them to create more of these zombie-bose-ites. Beware! Beware! Beware!!!!!!!!!!!! I hear it coming now!

.........ttttttttttttttwwwwwwwwwwwwoooooooooooooooo........
.....excellent.....
 
Resident Loser

Resident Loser

Senior Audioholic
To all and sundry...

...I neither had at the outset, nor currently have, any intention of continuing the previous thread...I merely provided Mulester with the common courtesy of a reply and what I think is a prudent warning re: doubling up on the Bose EQs...that being said, I also invited anyone who cares to continue with a reasonable discussion of the subject the opportunity to do so.

In the absence of any experience based, substantive comments, I hereby withdraw my offer, since it seems the net result will simply be a series of glib one-liners and ill-concieved comments on my posting style. From what I have witnessed, here and at other sites, most of the participants barely have a grasp on the basic constructs of the English language or exhibit anything even close to proper grammatical usage! Such critiques are therefore, laughable. I'm fairly certain, hails of pre-pubescent giggles and guffaws would accompany the mere mention of the words hyphen and semicolon and their usage would be far beyond the ken of others present; I would not want to tax the already overburdened mental capacity of the sound-bite generation.

jimHJJ(...now you can all return to your mechanical-lizard movies and the applicable sound effects...)
 
Buckeyefan 1

Buckeyefan 1

Audioholic Ninja
I don't think anyone is knocking the use of eq's. They are extremely useful in boosting or cutting frequencies in less than perfect rooms. The next time you go see that jazz band at the local corner, check out their crate setup. You'll notice eq's and processing equipment that is a must for balancing out imperfect reverb and room conditions. Sure, two or more are used, but they are usually applied to different channels - not in parallel. I use an Audiosource EQ11 with my cd player. It brings the music to life. EQ's are an excellent way to compensate for speakers lacking in certain hz, and none of us have perfect speakers in every frequency. This is the reason most high end receivers have parametric eq's. They should never be set to flat. When was the last time you saw a live jazz performance and all the sound was "flat". Recording engineers live and die by processors and eq's. Flat sound is what your Bose wave radio puts out. Take advantage of your system and it's processing.
 
mulester7

mulester7

Audioholic Samurai
Resident Loser said:
...I neither had at the outset, nor currently have, any intention of continuing the previous thread...I merely provided Mulester with the common courtesy of a reply and what I think is a prudent warning re: doubling up on the Bose EQs...that being said, I also invited anyone who cares to continue with a reasonable discussion of the subject the opportunity to do so.

In the absence of any experience based, substantive comments, I hereby withdraw my offer, since it seems the net result will simply be a series of glib one-liners and ill-concieved comments on my posting style. From what I have witnessed, here and at other sites, most of the participants barely have a grasp on the basic constructs of the English language or exhibit anything even close to proper grammatical usage! Such critiques are therefore, laughable. I'm fairly certain, hails of pre-pubescent giggles and guffaws would accompany the mere mention of the words hyphen and semicolon and their usage would be far beyond the ken of others present; I would not want to tax the already overburdened mental capacity of the sound-bite generation.

jimHJJ(...now you can all return to your mechanical-lizard movies and the applicable sound effects...)
.....yes, you're sharp....I just talked to somone at Bose by 800....after a little small talk, I asked if the present model 901 equalizer basically added 18 db of boost at both ends of the frequency response....the reply was yes....more discussion brought the response that's all they have ever done and ALL THEY WILL EVER DO....I asked if the person had ever heard 901's using two 901 equalizers....the response was yes....I asked if the experience was favorable....the reply was they thought it made 901's sound spectacular....quote....I asked if what they heard was live presence....they said like you're there....I asked why didn't Bose suggest using twoooooooo as an option to sell more product....the reply was some people prefer one equalizer sound....that confused me and still is....this is the truth....guys, we're only discussing a piece of audio equipment and application effects....I'm pushing Bose speakers in no way....telegraph style is easier to read....I ain't stewpid......
 
mulester7

mulester7

Audioholic Samurai
.....boys, I've found a pair of Martin Logans....the big ones....I saw them in a guy's backyard....his neighbor, a friend of mine, said the guy has 750,000 volts hooked up to the electrostatic parts, and claims they're the the best bug zappers goin'........I'm gonna' try to get 'em cheap because I got more bugs....cross your fingers with me, my new found Brothers.....
 
Rock&Roll Ninja

Rock&Roll Ninja

Audioholic Field Marshall
I honestly want to audition/test a pair of 901's in house. I don't want to pay $1400 to do so however ;) But I do have some pre-testing comments....

1. The EQ. Bose supplies the EQ and says it should be used. Thats cool with me, no speaker if ruler-flat and I am perfectly happy with results from EQ'd powered subwoofers (Hsu TN-1220). So i don't think it would be a concern.

2. Its a bookshelf. Its a very large bookshelf. It is not a floorstanding speaker, Bose even sells "pedestals" to put your 901s on because they tell you that they should be raised off the ground. Stop calling them floorstanders.

Bose had floorstanders at one time, I forgot the number but I remember seeing adds for them. I think they may have been 701s or 801s.

3. Its ugly. Yes, high-end audiophilia is filled with hideous, baby-scarring speakers, and the 901 is one of them. Even the veneer "walnut" has to have been scientifically proven to be the most horrible shade of wood ever used. Why not Maple, or Cherry, or Oak? The black ash are acceptible.

The previous three conccerns aside, i think I should borrow a pair of 901's sometime, i think i'll be a better person for having the 1st hand knowledge.
 
zipper

zipper

Full Audioholic
I wouldn't take the critcisms of Blows products personally. If YOU like them, that's all that matters. Write the rest of us off as uninformed,blithering idiots if it makes you feel better. I,too, once thought Blows was THE name in stereo speakers but derived that strictly from name recognition. I wasn't dissuaded by the mass opinions of the posters here, however, I discovered it on my own before I ever found this site.
I don't like any company that sells junk under the guise of being a quality product. That's just my stance. I won't try to persuade you or anyone else to feel as I do.


Mulester................one day you may have the pleasure of hearing some ML's. I have a hunch that if you do, you're suddenly going to feel rather foolish. I do appreciate your wit,however.
 
mulester7

mulester7

Audioholic Samurai
.....absolutely, Zipper....you guys know I'm just kidding about the Martin Logans....I've never heard them....a friend of mine swore in his electroastatic highs and mids a few years back....how much do the upper class Martin's run?.....
 
M

mustang_steve

Senior Audioholic
You can get a set of Sansui SP-2500s off Ebay for $200 that at the very least is far higher price/perfomance ratio than the 901, and possibly a better sounding speaker. I knew the 2500 was better than the 901 when it came out about 30 years ago.

I also still love the sound of those speakers...but they are just so freaking HUGE...old large woofer Sansuis are not known for their wife acceptance factor...but the pretty lattice grillwork does help some..
 
Buckeyefan 1

Buckeyefan 1

Audioholic Ninja
mulester7 said:
.....absolutely, Zipper....you guys know I'm just kidding about the Martin Logans....I've never heard them....a friend of mine swore in his electroastatic highs and mids a few years back....how much do the upper class Martin's run?.....
I've heard them coupled up with a Pioneer Elite receiver and Krell monoblocs. They sound tremendous, especially at very low volumes. Very very different sounding highs. Sweet sounding. Very enveloping. If they weren't so darn ugly, I would have bought a used pair for $1500 last year, but they look like Chinese wall partitions. Possibly the best HT speakers out there.

www.audioexcellence.co.th/brand/martinlogan_statementE2.shtml

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrplan&1118067449

This is, hands down IMO, the best HT subwoofer you can buy. A little pricey though. I was literally blown away the first time I heard it. Kudos to Martin Logan on this one.

www.martinlogan.com/descent_speaker.html#none

www.ultraaudio.com/equipment/martinlogan_descent.htm
 
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mulester7

mulester7

Audioholic Samurai
.....Buck, is that retail list of $80,000 on the full length bug zapper correct?....wow....after your description of the highs I want to hear some....great description....I truly got blessed a month ago....I've finally got some speakers that I want to listen to totally, without fail, flat....every time, no matter what I put on the spinning pad....does that make me a awdeofile?....if so, Buck, hold still while I look down my long nose at ya'.....
 
mulester7

mulester7

Audioholic Samurai
.....Buck, I've come to think overkill begins more quickly in amps than speakers....we've all learned the speakers are the last chance our music's got....my motto is, either love your mains, or get a wave radio....and you really need two wave radios....one to crap in and the other one to cover it up with.....
 
Rock&Roll Ninja

Rock&Roll Ninja

Audioholic Field Marshall
Here's an awesome site for pix of actual home theaters. What do these guys do for a living?
They sell Bose systems obviously. :)
 

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