So, Anheuser- Busch has been wateriing down their beer, eh?

M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
As an interesting aside, my first wife and I took a bus tour of Ireland in the mid 90's. I was reveling in all the free-range Guinness stout I could drink and, while in a trad bar in Galway, struck up a conversation with some local college students who were playing in the band. They were amused at my liking for that local stuff. When I asked them what they drank, they all said Coors Light was the "in" drink for them.

Go figguh!
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
As an interesting aside, my first wife and I took a bus tour of Ireland in the mid 90's. I was reveling in all the free-range Guinness stout I could drink and, while in a trad bar in Galway, struck up a conversation with some local college students who were playing in the band. They were amused at my liking for that local stuff. When I asked them what they drank, they all said Coors Light was the "in" drink for them.

Go figguh!
Teenagers don't have discerning tongues because they need lots of calories to grow. This is why you take them to Cici's and I eat at Uno's.
 
Rickster71

Rickster71

Audioholic Spartan
........
I think most beer drinkers start out with the bland mass-produced stuff, because it's the cheapest and because it's bland. Many never graduate to quality beer because they think their beer is great and prefer quantity over quality. Never mind that if they did a blind tasting of Bud, Coors & Miller, they probably wouldn't be able to tell them apart:D. If you set a "good" beer in front of them, they probably won't like it, because it has too much flavour. My father-in-law is like that. If he can't see through it in a glass, he ain't gonna like it.:rolleyes:

Then, there are those of us who, as we got older - and maybe drink a bit less - developed a taste for better beer. I know my thought was, "if I'm going to take in needless calories, they'd better be tasty ones". I don't drink as much as when I was younger, so I want better beer.

*By mass-produced, I mean the bland, cheap, widely distributed stuff. I see no reason why good craft beers can't be produced in vast quantities. It's just that the larger an operation gets, the more involved the bean counters seem to get. And then, of course, all they want to do is maximize profit. So, cheaper ingredients and methods get thrown into the mix.
Well done!
Wish I could've said it as eloquently.
You did it all without a food analogy, nice.:D
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Doc, methinks you betray a touch of chauvinism in your assessment.;) I lived in England for a couple of years and enjoyed a few "CAMRA" beers. I also drank many "John Smiths". There are many great beers available there and a lot of swill also - just like every other beer-producing country. And, most of the beer that I saw consumed by locals was the mass-produced* stuff, like here and in the USA.

Yes, Stella is just another mass-produced lager. It's sold here as a "premium" beer - more because it's European than because of its supposed high quality. (But, I'll take it over a Bud anyday.:D) In Belgium, it's considered low-brow, wife-beater beer. Still, there are quite a few high quality Belgian beers available - although I must confess that I can't remember the last time I had one, because you just can't find them here.

I think many people fall victim to the "if it's imported, it must be better" marketing. An example is "Alexander Keith's India Pale Ale". It's a Nova Scotia beer that's been around for a couple hundred years (although I doubt that it bears much resemblance to the original recipe). It's just another mass-produced ale, but it's sold in other markets as a premium beer - mainly because of the old-ish pedigree and the fact that it's "from somewhere else". That doesn't make it any better...

I think most beer drinkers start out with the bland mass-produced stuff, because it's the cheapest and because it's bland. Many never graduate to quality beer because they think their beer is great and prefer quantity over quality. Never mind that if they did a blind tasting of Bud, Coors & Miller, they probably wouldn't be able to tell them apart:D. If you set a "good" beer in front of them, they probably won't like it, because it has too much flavour. My father-in-law is like that. If he can't see through it in a glass, he ain't gonna like it.:rolleyes:

Then, there are those of us who, as we got older - and maybe drink a bit less - developed a taste for better beer. I know my thought was, "if I'm going to take in needless calories, they'd better be tasty ones". I don't drink as much as when I was younger, so I want better beer.

*By mass-produced, I mean the bland, cheap, widely distributed stuff. I see no reason why good craft beers can't be produced in vast quantities. It's just that the larger an operation gets, the more involved the bean counters seem to get. And then, of course, all they want to do is maximize profit. So, cheaper ingredients and methods get thrown into the mix.
You never found the good stuff. You need a local to find it. Honestly I agree it is hard to find a good pint in London.

It requires going out of London and knowing a bit about the history. Shepherd Neame is a very old brewery at Faversham Kent on the Swale, that makes the Isle of Sheppy an Island. I could see the Kings Ferry Bridge over the Swale from my bed room window.

Sheperd Neame brew and excellent pint and always have. They also have some old Steam trucks. Here is one at the Steam Fair held at Chatham Historic Dockyard, the town where I was born.



There is a narrow gauge steam railway at Sttingbourne, also on the Swale.



In fact chasing a good pint is a good way to explore the British Isles, there tends to be a correlation between a fascinating area and a good pint.

The Medway estuary/Thames estuary/Hoo peninsular between them, and the Swale Isle of Sheppy is a very interesting area to poke about. It is very close to London, 35 miles to Chatham dockyard, yet is is off the radar screen of US tourists. There is an awful lot in a small geographic area.

You can get a really good pint of Shepherd Neame at the Ship pub at Upnor on the Medway.



View down river from the pub.

 
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GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
You never found the good stuff. You need a local to find it. Honestly I agree it is hard to find a good pint in London.
Oh, I did find some good stuff. And, I wasn't in London much. Most of my time was spent in Cumbria. The point I wanted to make was that great beer can be found on the continent as well. And, in North America too...
 
Rickster71

Rickster71

Audioholic Spartan
Some folks just like it, Rick. :) Not everyone likes stronger tasting beers. A "watery lager" can be pretty refreshing after a day working or playing outside in the summer.

Adam, don't be jealous that I've been chatting online with babes all day, while drinking a stronger tasting beer.
 
Rickster71

Rickster71

Audioholic Spartan
..............all I'm saying is that the mass production has nothing to do with it. Any large craft beer is easily considered mass produced, and a few of them are even brewed by the macro brew facilities on contract.

I see what may be adding to some confusion.
I think by the definition of "Mass Produced."

My fault......I didn't mean any brewery with a bottle capper and a conveyor belt.:D

I should've said Mega Brewer vs. Craft Brewer.
I was surprised when I read this article: U.S. Craft Brewing Sees Huge Growth; Tops 5% Market Share - The Drink Nation
In 2011 'all of Craft Brewers combined' had just then, bumped past a tiny 5% Market Share.
EDIT: Can you point me to one or two mega brewers that are comparable to the craft brewers?
Thanks,
Rick
 
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Rickster71

Rickster71

Audioholic Spartan
They Do More Than Just Water Down Beer.

Below is an excerpt from this larger article: Big Beer dresses up in craft brewers' clothing - Fortune Management A good read for those interested.

In 1984, Jim Koch founded The Boston Beer Company and started brewing Samuel Adams Boston Lager, the beer that arguably kicked off the craft beer renaissance of the 1990s. "You gotta remember, this was a totally different world," says Koch. "In 1984, if you were an American beer drinker, you could not get a great glass of beer. You could get mass-produced beers, which are fine for what they are, but they're not trying to be great."
A Harvard grad, Koch left a job at Boston Consulting Group to pursue his family trade.
"My personal experience with Anheuser-Busch began in January of 1996. In 1996, they began a yearlong, full-scale attack campaign focused on doing as much damage as they could do to my business. And it began with kicking us out of virtually all of the Anheuser-Busch wholesalers. And then they started a PR campaign, which attacked Sam Adams."



Jim Koch went to the Better Business Bureau to have the ads reviewed, claiming they were false and misleading, and the bureau ruled in Koch's favor.
Anheuser-Busch agreed to stop the ads. Jim Koch saw this as an attempt not just to thwart his efforts but to slow the growth of the craft industry overall. "But I don't have any bitterness about it -- they were just competing. False and misleading advertising was pretty hardball, but they played hardball. It's business. They're not required to be nice."



The story illustrates what Jim Koch sees as a cultural difference between the craft industry and the big brewers. "Their view of business is not cooperative or collaborative. Craft brewers are very different." Citing an example, Jim Koch says that in light of a current shortage of certain types of hops needed for specific beer styles, his company decided to share some of its excess inventory. "We gave up some of these scarce hops so that 200 other craft brewers could make more of their beer, in a sense compete with us, and that mentality is completely foreign to big companies."
 
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Rickster71

Rickster71

Audioholic Spartan
Great American Beer Festival is a yearly competition with awards given to various categories of brewers. Why Pabst even scored a win. Also a searchable database.

Another competition in Denver, 2013 Denver International Beer Competition Past Winners & Judges! with an international flair. Seems like there's a lot of good beer tasting going on in Colorado. Wonder if the cops have a significant presence on the roads there.
It's just a little bit like kid's Tee Ball, where everybody is a winner.:Djk

The Great American Beer Fest has 84 styles and within that are over 80 'Sub Categories.'
Then there are three winners (gold silver, and bronze) in each of over 160 categories & subs.

As for the police presence; the fests I've been to also have plenty of police inside the show too.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
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C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
IIRC, the big guys are responding in part by introducing beers under names that aren't readily associated with the parent companies. I think it would be foolish of them to look to introduce any changes to their existing brands as that would result in consumer revolt akin to what happened with Coke some years back.
 
Rickster71

Rickster71

Audioholic Spartan
I'm not surprised. I see that number growing big time as the little guys get more traction. The big guys are already trying to respond with bullying, but I think it's a bad move personally. Instead they should focus on improving their own product lines.
Much like Pioneer with their new speakers.
I was surprised the Craft market share was so low.
The bullying started at almost day one. That's in the excerpt and link I posted earlier.
There is also a movie about it, I saw it on Netflix a few years ago.
Some info: Beer Wars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

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