So, Anheuser- Busch has been wateriing down their beer, eh?

C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
Shouldn't a lawsuit claiming the beer is watered down be accompanied by chemical analysis of the ethanol content to compare it to the manufactuer's specifications?
 
G

Grador

Audioholic Field Marshall
While taste is highly subjective.
Mass production doesn't usually compare well to crafted products.
I think you may be taking the term "craft beer" to far here. There's nothing appreciably different in the methods the macro breweries use vs a large craft brewery. It's really just a cost and product expectation concern that makes those beers so...macro
 
Rickster71

Rickster71

Audioholic Spartan
I think you may be taking the term "craft beer" to far here. There's nothing appreciably different in the methods the macro breweries use vs a large craft brewery. It's really just a cost and product expectation concern that makes those beers so...macro

Yes the methods are the same.

I was speaking more to the end result.
Lets say if we were to take the methods to make canned spaghetti or a dinner at the The Olive Garden.
Then compare that to the methods of a professional chef Mario Batali, for example.

The methods would be similar, yet the end result would be vastly different.
 
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gmichael

gmichael

Audioholic Spartan
Yes the methods are the same.

I was speaking more to the end result.
Lets say if we were to take the methods to make canned spaghetti or a dinner at the The Olive Garden.
Then compare that to the methods of a professional chef Mario Batali, for example.

The methods would be similar, yet the end result would be vastly different.
Great! Now I feel like having Tortelloni ricotta and spinaci with beer. Nah, make that wine.
 
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G

Grador

Audioholic Field Marshall
Nope never drank one of those beers. I have drank Bacardi Silver, but I thought they had a different owner.
You are correct, Bacardi isn't owned by any of the consortium. It also isn't any good..but that's another story
 
G

Grador

Audioholic Field Marshall
I was speaking more to the end result.
Lets say if we were to take the methods to make canned spaghetti or a dinner at the The Olive Garden.
Then compare that to the methods of a professional chef Mario Batali, for example.
For one of those it'll be mediocre but alright, and the other would be made by a man I knew was wearing crocks and socks which I just don't think I could deal with.

More seriously, the end results are very different, but all I'm saying is that the mass production has nothing to do with it. Any large craft beer is easily considered mass produced, and a few of them are even brewed by the macro brew facilities on contract.
 
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gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
"PHILADELPHIA — Beer lovers across the U.S. have accused Anheuser-Busch of watering down its Budweiser, Michelob and other brands, in class-action suits seeking millions in damages.
The suits, filed in Pennsylvania, California and other states, claim consumers have been cheated out of the alcohol content stated on labels. Budweiser and Michelob each boast of being 5 percent alcohol, while some "light" versions are said to be just over 4 percent.

The lawsuits are based on information from former employees at the company's 13 U.S. breweries, some in high-level plant positions, according to lead lawyer Josh Boxer of San Rafael, Calif."

More info in the link.

The real question is, how could they tell?
What is that saying? "People that don't know audio/beer know b*se / b*dweiser" :)
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Nope never drank one of those beers. I have drank Bacardi Silver, but I thought they had a different owner.
The new owners InBev from Belgium produce the likes of Stella Artois, referred to in British pubs as Europiss.

The ladies took a liking to it though, and large numbers of them got in the habit of being too often intoxicated in public. This earned them the epithet, "Larger loutets."

I'm glad to say that on recent visits to the UK real traditional British Ales are once again making a comeback.

The best beer in the world is brewed in the UK, but you have to go there to enjoy it. It is often said that Adnams beer of Southwold Suffolk does not travel more than 15 miles down the road.

I spent most of my childhood summers at the family retreat just outside Southwold.

[video=youtube;I5FjodlssMA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I5FjodlssMA[/video]
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Beer brewing, like speaker making, and coffee roasting, is rarely done well when done on a large industrial scale.

It's interesting how, in the USA, interest in small scale locally brewed beer came around the same time as people developed a taste for small local coffee roasters.
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Warlord
It may not be Rudy's chicken in the hood, but that chicken sandwich is definitely good(I had one yesterday too) That said I've never drank an AB beer before. Really don't plan too. There are too many craft beers left to try.
You a Rahr fan?
 
C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
At the Budweiser price point, let's say give or take 20%, what beers that are nationally distributed at the retail level, not bars or restaurants, do people feel are superior?
 
G

Grador

Audioholic Field Marshall
At the Budweiser price point, let's say give or take 20%, what beers that are nationally distributed at the retail level, not bars or restaurants, do people feel are superior?
Possibly none, but that's not a great argument for holding something in high esteem.
 
Rickster71

Rickster71

Audioholic Spartan
....More seriously, the end results are very different, but all I'm saying is that the mass production has nothing to do with it. Any large craft beer is easily considered mass produced, and a few of them are even brewed by the macro brew facilities on contract.

Still not really true.
Most mass produced beer is know as 'adjunct beer.' They add cheap tasteless fillers, rice & corn, and pelleted hops instead of fresh.
To use another food analogy.:D It's like comparing a nice freshly ground 100% beef burger, to one that has 40% bread crumb filler.

An American adjunct lager is the pale, fizzy watery lagers made popular by the large macro-breweries of America after prohibition.
Low bitterness, thin malts, and moderate alcohol.
Focus is less on flavor and more on mass-production and consumption, cutting flavor and sometimes costs with adjunct cereal grains, like rice and corn.
 
Rickster71

Rickster71

Audioholic Spartan
At the Budweiser price point, let's say give or take 20%, what beers that are nationally distributed at the retail level, not bars or restaurants, do people feel are superior?
Price is the sticky part. Superior is easy.
Maybe Sam Adams Boston Lager when it's on sale.

Here is a site that will shed some light on what's considered great beer: Top 250 Beers - BeerAdvocate
 
G

Grador

Audioholic Field Marshall
Still not really true.
Most mass produced beer is know as 'adjunct beer.' They add cheap tasteless fillers, rice & corn, and pelleted hops instead of fresh.
To use another food analogy.:D It's like comparing a nice freshly ground 100% beef burger, to one that has 40% bread crumb filler.
That is exactly my point! Mass produced beers tend to be hopless corn waters, but it's not the fact that they are mass produced that makes them awful, it's that mass produced beers are often made with that junk.
 
STRONGBADF1

STRONGBADF1

Audioholic Spartan
Funny thing is that I know more then one European that likes "watery yellow American beer" more than what they have there.

The other funny thing is that a lot of "craft beers" IMO suck. There are many very good ones though...just like speakers.;)

The other other funny thing is that people bash "American beer" when the American beer industry is so diverse that you can get pretty much any style you want regularly.

The other other other funny thing is...never mind.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Funny thing is that I know more then one European that likes "watery yellow American beer" more than what they have there.

The other funny thing is that a lot of "craft beers" IMO suck. There are many very good ones though...just like speakers.;)

The other other funny thing is that people bash "American beer" when the American beer industry is so diverse that you can get pretty much any style you want regularly.

The other other other funny thing is...never mind.
There is the odd traitor in the UK. However most continental European beers are pretty dreadful, hence the disdain with which Europiss is held in the UK.
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
The new owners InBev from Belgium produce the likes of Stella Artois, referred to in British pubs as Europiss.

The ladies took a liking to it though, and large numbers of them got in the habit of being too often intoxicated in public. This earned them the epithet, "Larger loutets."

I'm glad to say that on recent visits to the UK real traditional British Ales are once again making a comeback.

The best beer in the world is brewed in the UK, but you have to go there to enjoy it. It is often said that Adnams beer of Southwold Suffolk does not travel more than 15 miles down the road.

I spent most of my childhood summers at the family retreat just outside Southwold.

[video=youtube;I5FjodlssMA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I5FjodlssMA[/video]
There is the odd traitor in the UK. However most continental European beers are pretty dreadful, hence the disdain with which Europiss is held in the UK.
Doc, methinks you betray a touch of chauvinism in your assessment.;) I lived in England for a couple of years and enjoyed a few "CAMRA" beers. I also drank many "John Smiths". There are many great beers available there and a lot of swill also - just like every other beer-producing country. And, most of the beer that I saw consumed by locals was the mass-produced* stuff, like here and in the USA.

Yes, Stella is just another mass-produced lager. It's sold here as a "premium" beer - more because it's European than because of its supposed high quality. (But, I'll take it over a Bud anyday.:D) In Belgium, it's considered low-brow, wife-beater beer. Still, there are quite a few high quality Belgian beers available - although I must confess that I can't remember the last time I had one, because you just can't find them here.

I think many people fall victim to the "if it's imported, it must be better" marketing. An example is "Alexander Keith's India Pale Ale". It's a Nova Scotia beer that's been around for a couple hundred years (although I doubt that it bears much resemblance to the original recipe). It's just another mass-produced ale, but it's sold in other markets as a premium beer - mainly because of the old-ish pedigree and the fact that it's "from somewhere else". That doesn't make it any better...

I think most beer drinkers start out with the bland mass-produced stuff, because it's the cheapest and because it's bland. Many never graduate to quality beer because they think their beer is great and prefer quantity over quality. Never mind that if they did a blind tasting of Bud, Coors & Miller, they probably wouldn't be able to tell them apart:D. If you set a "good" beer in front of them, they probably won't like it, because it has too much flavour. My father-in-law is like that. If he can't see through it in a glass, he ain't gonna like it.:rolleyes:

Then, there are those of us who, as we got older - and maybe drink a bit less - developed a taste for better beer. I know my thought was, "if I'm going to take in needless calories, they'd better be tasty ones". I don't drink as much as when I was younger, so I want better beer.

*By mass-produced, I mean the bland, cheap, widely distributed stuff. I see no reason why good craft beers can't be produced in vast quantities. It's just that the larger an operation gets, the more involved the bean counters seem to get. And then, of course, all they want to do is maximize profit. So, cheaper ingredients and methods get thrown into the mix.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
The best beer in the world is brewed in the UK, but you have to go there to enjoy it. It is often said that Adnams beer of Southwold Suffolk does not travel more than 15 miles down the road.
I've had great beer from the UK for sure. Samuel Smith's Nut Brown Ale was excellent as was Young's Chocolate double stout, but I'm not sure it's better than the top American brews. Unfortunately many of them aren't in my local area, but believe me there are some great breweries in the states worthy of a refined palate. Beeradvocate.com is the AH of beers and is an excellent guide to the styles and best brews. I suppose I must now make a trip to Southwold Suffolk.

You are correct, Bacardi isn't owned by any of the consortium. It also isn't any good..but that's another story
It's fine for mixing in a coke not really great for sipping though. Though I've not really dove into the high end rums yet. Since I mostly use rum for cokes. I'm not sure I really want to dive in to much.

You a Rahr fan?
Had Red Amber Lager some at a party a couple days ago straight out of the bottle. I don't consider that a proper way to rate a beer so I haven't given it a proper review yet. Still it was an excellent beer with good hops and a nice finish. I really want to get a hold of their winter warmer.

I've gotta say my favorites so far have been the Weihenstephaner Hefe, Samuel Smith's Nut Brown, and La Fin Du Monde. The Deep Ellum was excellent too, but I'm not necessarily a big fan of the IPA. Definitely try it. We gotta support our local breweries.
[h=1][/h]
 

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