Small subwoofer for wife - Choices?

[pcosmic]

Dear forum, I am trying to do some research on a small subwoofer for wife's domain/office. She went and got a pair of Elac Navis powered bookshelves after we heard it at our friend's place. ( I swear to God i didn't buy it for her. She liked it enough that she bought it with her own cash!) She listens to orchestra/classical music primarily and some pop, etc. I convinced her that she could benefit from the usage of a single small subwoofer.

The thing has to have a small footprint and hit down to 20hz for it to make sense on the above application for music.

Here's what i am coming up with...
a) dual 8 inch driver, sealed/servo controlled, small footprint

Rythmik Audio servo subwoofer 8" FM8

b) dual 10 inch driver, sealed sub from Tekton,

2-10 Sub

www.tektondesign.com

Has anyone owned either of the above mentioned subs? Does the Tekton actually have bass extension down to 20 hz? I can't find any measurements for it.
Or are there other subs out there that can get low and still stay small? The Navis was already a huge step up for someone who primarily listens to all her music on earphones with her phone+dragonfly dac. So, no suggestions for swarms of large gigantorr subwoofers please.

 

[mazersteven]

You could purchase two of these

PB-1000

Ported box home theater subwoofer delivers ground-shaking SPLs and subterranean low frequency extension without sacrificing detail and accuracy.

www.svsound.com

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Of those two I like the Rythmik. Counter to my belief system in a tiny space I can recommend the SVS SB2k. It’s not capable of massive output but is an excellent sounding subwoofer and very small. It will get below 20hz as well. How big is the room?

 

[pcosmic]

Of those two I like the Rythmik. Counter to my belief system in a tiny space I can recommend the SVS SB2k. It’s not capable of massive output but is an excellent sounding subwoofer and very small. It will get below 20hz as well. How big is the room?

Room is approx 11 ft by 10 ft with a vaulted ceiling, but, room is completely filled to the neck with artwork/paintings and sculptures. There really is zero space except for a PC she works at all day and the Navis on stands. Sub may also end up serving as a stand for one of her art pieces...the reason, i was leaning towards the dual drivers which are a bit taller, but, with a small footprint. I'll eat the extra cash for a nice finish if it looks good, whatever it is.

 

[TLS Guy]

Dear forum, I am trying to do some research on a small subwoofer for wife's domain/office. She went and got a pair of Elac Navis powered bookshelves after we heard it at our friend's place. ( I swear to God i didn't buy it for her. She liked it enough that she bought it with her own cash!) She listens to orchestra/classical music primarily and some pop, etc. I convinced her that she could benefit from the usage of a single small subwoofer.

The thing has to have a small footprint and hit down to 20hz for it to make sense on the above application for music.

Here's what i am coming up with...
a) dual 8 inch driver, sealed/servo controlled, small footprint

Rythmik Audio servo subwoofer 8" FM8

b) dual 10 inch driver, sealed sub from Tekton,

2-10 Sub

www.tektondesign.com

Has anyone owned either of the above mentioned subs? Does the Tekton actually have bass extension down to 20 hz? I can't find any measurements for it.
Or are there other subs out there that can get low and still stay small? The Navis was already a huge step up for someone who primarily listens to all her music on earphones with her phone+dragonfly dac. So, no suggestions for swarms of large gigantorr subwoofers please.

Interesting. I suspect you wife has picked a good set of speakers. I have found over the years that women on the whole are much better listeners than men. Women I find are much more likely to pick out better speakers than men. These speakers are not just powered but fully active. They have three amps with fully active crossovers. This allows for far better control of many parameters not possible with passive crossovers. Now with improved DSP for the benefits of this approach is fast widening the gap between active and passive designs. In fact I firmly believe passive designs are now well past their sell by date.

I'm familiar with that Elac coaxial driver. It is an excellent driver. Your speakers have 300 watts devoted to the range below 260 Hz. This covers the real power range of classical music perceived as bass.

So I have to ask the question, has you wife asked for a sub? I ask this as I suspect that for classical music listened to in the office she does NOT need one.

If she does get a sub she needs to choose it very carefully. Subs are in fact great quality spoilers, and miss used and over used on a gigantic scale at present.

I do not use subs on my main theater music system and never will. Subs solve some problems and create a host of other problems, especially for classical music, which I pretty much listen to exclusively.

If you do pick one of those subs, make it the Rhytmic as it has a very low Q, which is essential for the accurate reproduction of classical music. If you do get one, I would not cross it over, but just gently roll the sub in below 60 Hz. If you over use it I suspect your wife will be very unhappy.

This is a roundabout way of saying that I'm skeptical your wife "needs" a sub.

 

[shadyJ]

I don't think the Rythmik or Tekton subs will do 20Hz competently at all. Yes, they may be able to hit those deep frequencies at a modest drive level, but if you turn things up just a little they will run out of excursion very fast and produce nothing but distortion. If your size criteria is just footprint, get the SVS PC-2000 Pro. I wouldn't call it a small sub but it does have a small footprint. If the sub just has to be small all around, look at the MartinLogan Dynamo 600X. It doesn't quite do deep bass, but it is competent down to 30 Hz. Another good one is the RSL Speedwoofer.

 

[KEW]

Room is approx 11 ft by 10 ft with a vaulted ceiling, but, room is completely filled to the neck with artwork/paintings and sculptures. There really is zero space except for a PC she works at all day and the Navis on stands. Sub may also end up serving as a stand for one of her art pieces...the reason, i was leaning towards the dual drivers which are a bit taller, but, with a small footprint. I'll eat the extra cash for a nice finish if it looks good, whatever it is.

So, I gather she is an art teacher? Or what?

My mom was an artist/art teacher, so I have a solid image of that room (which may be totally wrong).

If she was routinely painting, I would be concerned about low frequencies making a vibrating diaphragm out of the canvas. I don't know if the effect would be a problem with brushstrokes.

But to your question, I think TLSGuy raises some legit concerns!

Why gamble? Just set up and tune your Rythmik L12 temporarily in her art studio (no big deal if you have to set some stuff out to make space for a day) and make sure she appreciates a benefit from it before committing funds!

If the room is as full as it sounds, there are likely to be many vibrations manifest, that could also be a problem.

Just trying to help you cover the bases!

 

[MR.MAGOO]

small subwoofer. Cambridge Audio Minx X301, 300 watts, about 12 inch cube. connected to my KEF EGG speakers on my iMac.
Box of Kleenex on top for size comparison.

 

[pcosmic]

Interesting. I suspect you wife has picked a good set of speakers. I have found over the years that women on the whole are much better listeners than men. Women I find are much more likely to pick out better speakers than men. These speakers are not just powered but fully active. They have three amps with fully active crossovers. This allows for far better control of many parameters not possible with passive crossovers. Now with improved DSP for the benefits of this approach is fast widening the gap between active and passive designs. In fact I firmly believe passive designs are now well past their sell by date.

I'm familiar with that Elac coaxial driver. It is an excellent driver. Your speakers have 300 watts devoted to the range below 260 Hz. This covers the real power range of classical music perceived as bass.

So I have to ask the question, has you wife asked for a sub? I ask this as I suspect that for classical music listened to in the office she does NOT need one.

If she does get a sub she needs to choose it very carefully. Subs are in fact great quality spoilers, and miss used and over used on a gigantic scale at present.

I do not use subs on my main theater music system and never will. Subs solve some problems and create a host of other problems, especially for classical music, which I pretty much listen to exclusively.

If you do pick one of those subs, make it the Rhytmic as it has a very low Q, which is essential for the accurate reproduction of classical music. If you do get one, I would not cross it over, but just gently roll the sub in below 60 Hz. If you over use it I suspect your wife will be very unhappy.

This is a roundabout way of saying that I'm skeptical your wife "needs" a sub.

She is repulsed by stuff that just takes over the whole space (like the large speakers and all the crazy gear in my man cave even though it sounds good). This may be why she jumped on the Navis as soon as she heard it. She is thrilled that she can just plug one 3.5mm to rca cable from the dragonfly to her Navis and out comes the beautiful sound! Now that i think about it, she never went back to that dumass DAC on her phone after i got her a dragonfly. So, i know there's definitely an audiophile in there!

She trained in/performed classical ballet in her younger days and that may be where her affinity for classical music & orchestra comes from. It's not really my go-to genre of music. Sure, we've gone to see many symphony orchestras, opera, etc in person. But, i don't personally listen to it on speakers, she does. No, she didn't ask for a sub. I was the one to suggest it. Yes, my plan is to roll the sub in ever so slightly at the very low end, not use a crossover ...If it ruined it for her and she wants the sub out of there, oh well, i gave it a shot.

 

[pcosmic]

So, I gather she is an art teacher? Or what?

My mom was an artist/art teacher, so I have a solid image of that room (which may be totally wrong).

If she was routinely painting, I would be concerned about low frequencies making a vibrating diaphragm out of the canvas. I don't know if the effect would be a problem with brushstrokes.

But to your question, I think TLSGuy raises some legit concerns!

Why gamble? Just set up and tune your Rythmik L12 temporarily in her art studio (no big deal if you have to set some stuff out to make space for a day) and make sure she appreciates a benefit from it before committing funds!

If the room is as full as it sounds, there are likely to be many vibrations manifest, that could also be a problem.

Just trying to help you cover the bases!

She works for a medical conglomerate ( div director, something...i really don't know what exactly her role is these days). Art/music is just her escape from the rest of the world. Ah, I didn't realize that i could actually haul my L12 from the basement to the 2nd floor (omg, my poor spine,) and determine what she thought about it before i dropped a thousand bucks. Thanks for the tip about the canvas turning into a vibrating diaphragm as well!! Never thought about that either....

 

[TLS Guy]

She is repulsed by stuff that just takes over the whole space (like the large speakers and all the crazy gear in my man cave even though it sounds good). This may be why she jumped on the Navis as soon as she heard it. She is thrilled that she can just plug one 3.5mm to rca cable from the dragonfly to her Navis and out comes the beautiful sound! Now that i think about it, she never went back to that dumass DAC on her phone after i got her a dragonfly. So, i know there's definitely an audiophile in there!

She trained in/performed classical ballet in her younger days and that may be where her affinity for classical music & orchestra comes from. It's not really my go-to genre of music. Sure, we've gone to see many symphony orchestras, opera, etc in person. But, i don't personally listen to it on speakers, she does. No, she didn't ask for a sub. I was the one to suggest it. Yes, my plan is to roll the sub in ever so slightly at the very low end, not use a crossover ...If it ruined it for her and she wants the sub out of there, oh well, i gave it a shot.

Yes, I figured you actually had a solution is search of a problem. You have to understand that a lot of classical music, especially of the Baroque, has no really low bass. So response to the mid forties is just fine. In order to require response to 20 Hz you have to by an enthusiast for large pipe organs with 32' stops. Most organs only have 16' stops and you only need response to 32 Hz. What classical music does require is a lot of resources in the 80 Hz to 500 Hz range. And make no mistake that range is bass. That is where a good power band response is required, and many, many speakers come up short here, especially offerings in recent years. Subs do not put that right.

In addition a double bass does not have its fundamental sounding from one part of the stage and it higher fundamentals and harmonics sounding from another part. That is what we are doing when we employ subs, and it is a massive acoustic trespass and to be avoided if possible. I'm increasingly convinced reproducers need to be coherent throughout out the whole audio band. For classical music and speech I think it is very important. I know many music lovers who can not tolerate subs. They are not crazy and have a a very valid point. We need to return to coherent speakers and get over this sub fetish. In so many ways it has been an audio step backwards, and is in urgent need of rethinking.

So my advice as always, is to listen to your wife.

This forum is a spreader of the dreadful heresy that the answer to practically all audio problems is more and bigger sub wooferage. That is just nonsense. A lot here seem to spend more on their subs, than their other speakers. That is a lousy way to build up a good system. The last octave is the most dispensable octave. To read this forum you would think it was the most crucial spectrum in the whole audio range, well it is not. It is the least crucial of all. So the sub is actually the least crucial part of the system.

 

[pcosmic]

Yes, I figured you actually had a solution is search of a problem. You have to understand that a lot of classical music, especially of the Baroque, has no really low bass. So response to the mid forties is just fine. In order to require response to 20 Hz you have to by an enthusiast for large pipe organs with 32' stops. Most organs only have 16' stops and you only need response to 32 Hz. What classical music does require is a lot of resources in the 80 Hz to 500 Hz range. And make no mistake that range is bass. That is where a good power band response is required, and many, many speakers come up short here, especially offerings in recent years. Subs do not put that right.

In addition a double bass does not have its fundamental sounding from one part of the stage and it higher fundamentals and harmonics sounding from another part. That is what we are doing when we employ subs, and it is a massive acoustic trespass and to be avoided if possible. I'm increasingly convinced reproducers need to be coherent throughout out the whole audio band. For classical music and speech I think it is very important. I know many music lovers who can not tolerate subs. They are not crazy and have a a very valid point. We need to return to coherent speakers and get over this sub fetish. In so many ways it has been an audio step backwards, and is in urgent need of rethinking.

So my advice as always, is to listen to your wife.

This forum is a spreader of the dreadful heresy that the answer to practically all audio problems is more and bigger sub wooferage. That is just nonsense. A lot here seem to spend more on their subs, than their other speakers. That is a lousy way to build up a good system. The last octave is the most dispensable octave. To read this forum you would think it was the most crucial spectrum in the whole audio range, well it is not. It is the least crucial of all. So the sub is actually the least crucial part of the system.

I'm no stranger to sub problems in 2 channel music setups. I suffer a severe case of OCD and robbed happiness somedays on my 2 channel setup with maggies and diopole subs.
But, when you're talking about power band response for classical music, humongous/tall line source/array speakers are the ideal solution, yes? (Infinity IRS, GR Research, etc?)

 

[TLS Guy]

I'm no stranger to sub problems in 2 channel music setups. I suffer a severe case of OCD and robbed happiness somedays on my 2 channel setup with maggies and diopole subs.
But, when you're talking about power band response for classical music, humongous/tall line source/array speakers are the ideal solution, yes? (Infinity IRS, GR Research, etc?)

No, it does not mean that. I have a feeling your wife's system would acquit itself well. They seem to have placed resources where it counts. Have you really given them a good listen? I suspect you have not?

 

[KEW]

You know when I first saw the title of this thread, "Small Subwoofer for Wife" I figured @Danzilla31 had finally found that special little subwoofer with just the right port action to get him to settle down!

 

[pcosmic]

No, it does not mean that. I have a feeling your wife's system would acquit itself well. They seem to have placed resources where it counts. Have you really given them a good listen? I suspect you have not?

I have not really listened much to the Navis yet. But, a few Lisa Gerard tracks i sampled on it sounded phenomenal. Few years ago, i had a discussion with PS Audio's CEO at a show. He went into some level of technical detail on how the big line arrays (thought they're impractical for a regular house, understandably) may be the best suited for orchestra... I have never heard a line array and i'm no speaker designer. But, i've wondered about what he said. I guess he lets you audit the Infinity IRS speakers they have at their headquarters in Colorado (if anyone decides to stop by there).

 

[lovinthehd]

Depends on what you listen to....but an f3 of 44Hz would have me getting a sub.

 

[Irvrobinson]

This forum is a spreader of the dreadful heresy that the answer to practically all audio problems is more and bigger sub wooferage. That is just nonsense. A lot here seem to spend more on their subs, than their other speakers. That is a lousy way to build up a good system. The last octave is the most dispensable octave. To read this forum you would think it was the most crucial spectrum in the whole audio range, well it is not. It is the least crucial of all. So the sub is actually the least crucial part of the system.

So true. Smooth, low-distortion response to 32Hz goes a long way for music. You don't need a massive sub to achieve that. Whenever a friend hears my desktop computer system, with its diminutive, inexpensive 12" sealed SVS SB1000 in a relatively large room they are always surprised if I play the theme music for the Bosch TV show. Most of the time they don't even notice the sub, and think the pair of Audioengine 5+ flanking the monitor are thumping like that. Nope.

 

[lovinthehd]

Then again it's fairly easy to get good performance from much gear above the subwoofer's range....depends on what you want. If you listen to only old dead classical music....meh.

 

[pcosmic]

Then again it's fairly easy to get good performance from much gear above the subwoofer's range....depends on what you want. If you listen to only old dead classical music....meh.

As far as classical music goes, i can really appreciate string quartets, piano, etc. I can really appreciate a flute. I can really appreciate a harp. But, it's the brass man.... brass is not exactly what i go for.

I also listen to a lot of electronic music and game/movie music composers (fusion of orchestral elements and electronica, quite different from your typical classical music), etc. For these genres, my dual Rythmik L12s hooked up to a Yam RX-A3080 receiver is something i can never let go of. My multichannel setup is in a large room actually and these two sealed L12s have been more than enough for me. But, I guess the L12s are small with measly output by this forum's standards?! I sometimes wonder what a guy with 2 or more 18 inch ported subs is thinking in his mind That may be enough to bring the floor joists down on some older houses. But, if you wanna hear a brontosaurus walking around (as if he never went extinct) in a movie, such massive subs are a requirement, i suppose. bwaahahaha

Before this Godforsaken covid lockdown started, i was out downtown one fine evening and a coupla guys were DJing on a sectioned off block. Now, I am a fan of electronic music, so, i obviously stopped to check it out. But, there were these gigantorr subs pumping away so hard that OMG....i literally ran to the next block to get away from it. But, there were young lads and lasses dancing right next to their setup! Either i am a complete wimp when it comes to bass or there are some absurd levels of bassheadedness that's rampant among the younger lads these days.

 

[lovinthehd]

As far as classical music goes, i can really appreciate string quartets, piano, etc. I can really appreciate a flute. I can really appreciate a harp. But, it's the brass man.... brass is not exactly what i go for.

I also listen to a lot of electronic music and game/movie music composers (fusion of orchestral elements and electronica, quite different from your typical classical music), etc. For these genres, my dual Rythmik L12s hooked up to a Yam RX-A3080 receiver is something i can never let go of. My multichannel setup is in a large room actually and these two sealed L12s have been more than enough for me. But, I guess the L12s are small with measly output by this forum's standards?! I sometimes wonder what a guy with 2 or more 18 inch ported subs is thinking in his mind That may be enough to bring the floor joists down on some older houses. But, if you wanna hear a brontosaurus walking around (as if he never went extinct) in a movie, such massive subs are a requirement, i suppose. bwaahahaha

Before this Godforsaken covid lockdown started, i was out downtown one fine evening and a coupla guys were DJing on a sectioned off block. Now, I am a fan of electronic music, so, i obviously stopped to check it out. But, there were these gigantorr subs pumping away so hard that OMG....i literally ran to the next block to get away from it. But, there were young lads and lasses dancing right next to their setup! Either i am a complete wimp when it comes to bass or there are some absurd levels of bassheadedness that's rampant among the younger lads these days.

L12s are decent subs. Nothing too exciting. Again, it depends what you listen to,, eh? Having high output in the range your club experience translates to....meh.