Small Room Acoustical Treatment

[longodj]

Hey guys,
This is my first post here, I've been looking around and getting great advice but finally decided to post on my own situation. Here's my current set up:

Room: 12'x15' with viewing in the 12' direction (12' between listeners and speakers) In the 12' direction because there is an entrance on the right side of the 15' direction and everything would be off to the side...

Speakers: Dynaudio Audience 72 (x2), 122C, 42W (x2) - Mirage PS12
Receiver: Pioneer VSX-84TXsi
Content: Sony PS3, Toshiba HD-A2, Cable, Apple TV
TV: Sony KDS-50A2000

I used to have my speakers in a configuration where the center was about a foot to the right of true center (because it didn't fit ), the left and right fronts were about a foot from the tv (probably 15 degrees on either side of the listener) and the sub was off on the outside of the speakers.

I recently moved them such that the center was truly in the center (I got a component rack so now the center fits), the front left and right are at exactly 30 degrees for the listener, and the sub is between the TV and the left channel. The imaging is MUCH better now (as the speakers are in more of a circle and less of a trapezoid configuration), however I guess because of the proximity of the speakers to the wall (probably about a foot), the sound has gotten much thinner. The reason I love my speakers so much is because I feel like I can cuddle up beside them when they play ANYTHING, lol. But, now they have lost a considerable amount of their warmth and actually kind of hurt to listen too at proper listening levels.

I placed an order for GIK Acoustics 244 panels that I will be placing in the corners behind the speakers. I also plan on buying the TriTraps to replace the 244s and then put the 244s at the first reflection points. Will this help to warm up the sound again? Is there anything else I can do? Was the placement at 30 degrees wrong?

Thanks,
Dave

 

[longodj]

After doing some more research, I guess I'm experiencing comb filtering in the upper frequencies. So I guess I should actually just not bother with the bass trap idea for now (my bass response is pretty nice as is) and just hit up the first reflection points?

 

[avaserfi]

If comb filtering is the problem I think early reflections would be your best bet, but it could possibly be a problem with late reflections (although much less likely). The GIK 242 panels should be able to deal with the high level frequency problems.

 

[longodj]

Hey thanks for the response. Yea, it's looking more and more like the reflection points are the problems the more that I play around with things. I guess I have to wait till next week and post the results of the panels

 

[longodj]

Oh and just as an update, I made a schematic of the room, the dimensions are actually 14.5' by 15.5' by 9'

 

[armaraas]

I'll be interested in hearing how the room treatments work out for you and if it makes a noticeable difference. I have a very similar setup, the dimensions are about the same, probably closer to the 12x15 than your updated dimension. The biggest differences are instead of the doorway being towards the back, its forward more right next to the speaker, and on the window side we actually have a bay window, which holds a computer desk, and the speakers are just inside the corners of the bay window. I've been kind of itching to upgrade, but I don't think I can get the wife to go for that right now, and being a smaller room (it's an extra bedroom) with nothing on walls, I was wondering if room treatments might not be the way to go. Right now I have Cambridge Soundworks Tower II's with matching center and dipole surrounds, powered by a HK AVR245. My center channel isn't sitting quite right either, the tv is on a trunk until we get a real stand, so there's no place for the speaker so I have it on the floor pointing upwards. It seems to actually work quite well, as long as the dogs don't step on it.

 

[bpape]

They Dynaudio's are very nice speakers. I run the Dyn Contour 3.3's for my mains and love them.

Nothing wrong with the speaker placement. I would recommend getting the seating away from the back wall more if at all possible.

Tri Traps up front will be good. Put the 244's on the rear wall behind the seating location. Use 242's on the side walls for general decay time and reflection control.

Bryan

 

[longodj]

Bryan,
Thanks for the response! Man I wish I had Contours I'll try the 244s in different positions while I have only them but will definitely take your advice on the TriTraps and 242s as soon as I can. I'll post my results next week.

Thanks,
Dave

 

[bpape]

Just try putting them on a couple folding chairs as a temp measure to see what the rear wall placement does for you. Also, if you can't get the couch too far out, you might also try them on the floor horizontally straddling the wall/floor intersection behind the couch.

Bryan

 

[longodj]

Hey guys,
So I got the GIK 244 panels today. I took Bryan's advice and put the 244s on the rear wall.

I tried Rusted Root - Martyr, Genesis - I Can't Dance, Eagles - Hotel California, and simply because I had problems with it one day, Fall Out Boy - Hum Hallelujah. Martyr got much clearer and less congested. Hum Hallelujah stopped being a muddled mess in the upper frequencies and now sounds just as it's supposed to. I also tried the bean scene from House of Flying Daggers (Chapter 3?). The sword at the end used to immediately give me a headache and now that problem is gone.

Tonight I'll be placing an order for a set of 242s for the side walls as I am so impressed with the results of even just the 244s. The comb filtering I was experiencing is almost gone, midbass has gotten slightly clearer and I regained some of my much sought after warmth. Along with some processing (MCACC on my Pioneer), I am very happy with the results...and now I want to treat everything!

As of right now I have both 244s on the back wall, and the couch about six inches off the wall so that the listener's ears are between a foot and a foot and a half off the wall. I will be placing the 242s on the side walls, one on the right, two staggered on the left (there are obstacles in the way on the right wall). My housemates think the panels are ugly...I disagree. They are perfectly unobtrusive and I'm sure that with a few more panels they will feel like they are built into the room.

Thanks GIK for a great product!

-Dave

 

[longodj]

One more update: here's the updated schematic with the 244s on rear wall, and planned 242 and tri-trap in position

 

[Glenn Kuras]

Thanks GIK for a great product!

-Dave

NO thank you sir and keep us updated on how the room does after you put the new products in.

Glenn

 

[Glenn Kuras]

One more update: here's the updated schematic with the 244s on rear wall, and planned 242 and tri-trap in position

that looks like a winner to me.

Glenn

 

[longodj]

order placed for 242s

me == excited

 

[longodj]

Hey Guys,
Just got the 242s today. I placed them in the locations indicated in the schematic. As I expected the sound has gotten even cleaner in the top end. I moved my speakers 6 inches in and 6 inches forward to get them off the walls a bit more and now oddly enough my bass has gotten a bit weird... I have an Auralex SubDude on the way and like I said before still plan on getting the TriTraps.

Anyway, I only have good things to say about the GIKs. The upper frequencies like before softened slightly (only in the best way) and became more separated. One track I wanted to try was Phil Collins - Take Me Home, because there is a lot going on everywhere in the frequency range. No two instruments were pushed together, every note was distinct. Phil Collins - Sussudio (A Hot Night in Paris) enveloped the listener even more, the trumpets cut through the air like lasers and the trombones have a freakish presence. Billy Joel - River of Dreams (Alternate Version) really came to life. Also staging improved, I kept checking if my center channel was on because I couldn't believe how well the fronts were meshing. I love acoustical treatment

Like I said though, now that I have dealt with the upper frequencies the lower frequencies seem out of place. I'm still working on it but I am very, very happy with the results so far. I was thinking about putting two more 242 panels on the immediate outside of the speakers to deal with those reflections but I think that the window and CD rack are acting as minor diffusors so it should be ok. I'll focus on the bass for now.

Thanks again Bryan and Glenn,
Dave

 

[bpape]

Yup - it's a whole solution. We've dealt with some of the bass issues off the back wall but there's still more to do. Unfortunately, smaller rooms require proportionately more than larger rooms in terms of bass control.

Seriously try playing with seating position. That's a freebie that can do a lot to tweak response - though it won't help with ringing. We still need to get the bottom end decay times under control.

Bryan

 

[Glenn Kuras]

Hey Guys,


Thanks again Bryan and Glenn,
Dave

Your very welcome sir and please let us know if you have any questions we can help you with.

Glenn

 

[longodj]

Hello Again,
Got the SubDude in today. It does exactly what it's meant to do. I can't expect it to deal with the peaks I am seeing in bass/mid-bass frequencies but on the box it states "Tightens bass and increases low-end clarity" and it does exactly that. Especially in Hip Hop and Funk, there is considerably less boom in the sound. I would have liked it to be a bit bigger....my sub looks like a fat kid on top of a tiny chair. Overall though, it's a good, cheap addition to the home theater.

Thanks,
Dave

The realism my system is producing in this room is getting kind of creepy....

 

[bpape]

The realism my system is producing in this room is getting kind of creepy....

That's what we're looking for - good deal. Now if we can work through the last few bass issues that started when you moved your monitors, we'll be good to go.

My suspicion is that you were getting some favorable SBIR and moving them compounded a seating placement problem. Can you try somewhere in between or even 2-3" more in the direction you went and see what happens? Also, you want to watch your sub phase when you move your mains.

Bryan

 

[longodj]

Thanks for the advice Bryan. I moved the speakers around slightly and it did help the "weirdness." I just placed an order for another set of 244s (black). My roommates HATED the oatmeal and were bugging me every day about it because they are on the wall next to a burgundy couch and it looked hideous. I'm going to put the oatmeal 244s where I would have had the TriTraps in the corners behind the speakers and place the new black 244s in the old 244 position. We'll see how it goes!