simple question for you guys regarding watts/ch

[vwinterr]

I'm looking at the HK AVR 135/230

Call me what you will, but what is with HK only having 45-55watts/ch where other manufactures easily have 75-120watts/ch???

I've heard nothing but great tones from HK receivers I've listened to, and I'm sure there is a simple explanation/FAQ... but I don't know the answer

The only thing I ask is not to go too techincal on me. I believed I was somewhat knowledgeable until I began to look around audioholics ... I'm learning tons, but still hung up on this simpliest of questions.

Thanks for the responses that I'm sure will follow.


edit: oh, and feel free to give comments or concerns on these 2 receivers... or even other recommendations around the same $

 

[Shinerman]

H/K is very conservative with their watt ratings and "most" of the other major players are very liberal with their ratings. An H/K rated at 55 wpc is probably about the same as a Yamaha rated at 100 wpc. I can't really tell the specifics on how different makers rate their receivers but I can tell you that H/K receivers have always been able to power the majority of speakers out there. I would not worry about it that much.

Maybe someone else can give the reasons for this and how the various ratings are done.

Shinerman

 

[zumbo]

H/K's ratings are more honest than other's. Their 45 is about in line with the jap 75.

 

[zumbo]

You will find that their 45 watts cost about what a jap 75 watt unit will cost. I prefer the jap models.

 

[vwinterr]

thanks for the quick responses...

puts me more at ease about my decision...

 

[vwinterr]

You will find that their 45 watts cost about what a jap 75 watt unit will cost. I prefer the jap models.

more specific on a model you'd choose over these two?? possible a link?

thanks

 

[zumbo]

WOW! I was looking up the 135 & could not believe the prices I found right off. I don't know if I can find a better deal than that. Give me a minute.

 

[MDS]

vwinterr,
You got the normal "urban legend" type of responses. A watt is a watt, so disregard statements like 45 HK watts are like 75 Japanese brand watts. The truth lies solely in how the receivers are rated.

HK rates their receivers with all channels driven. They specify the number of watts that each amplifier can produce even when all amplifiers are active at the same time.

Other brands, rate their receivers with two channels driven. A 75 watt Onkyo, Yamaha, Denon, etc will produce 75 watts or more when two channels are driven. Thus if you were driving 2 channels of an HK amp rated at 45wpc and compared its output to 2 channels driven of say, a Yamaha, the Yamaha will indeed put out more power (However the diff between 45 wpc and 75 wpc is less than 2dB; ie barely noticeable).

There is alot of debate over whether its better to be 'conservative' like HK or use the old method of 2 channels driven like all the others. Read the recent articles on this site about Receiver power ratings and the all channels driven controversey for more insight.

The short story is that no music will ever drive all channels simultaneously and wpc ratings are the least of your worries. HK makes fine receivers. If the model you are considering has the all the features and looks you want, get it. 45 watts is enough to drive reasonably efficient speakers in a small to medium room to ear bleeding levels.

 

[zumbo]

Looks like the H/K stuff is the deal at the moment. You will pay more at One Call. But you will get a warranty. Might be worth the extra money. Good luck. Let us know what you get.

 

[vwinterr]

zumbo,
please dont think i'm trying to call you out for a better deal... I'd hope you could find a comparable equipment at that pricepoint for me to consider.

and anonymous,
thanks for the response... that actually makes perfect sense... I assumed it was ratings, but they weren't even close, hence this thread...

 

[zumbo]

Funny that Anomyous said to "disregard statements like 45 HK watts are like 75 Japanese brand watts", and then said "Thus if you were driving 2 channels of an HK amp rated at 45wpc and compared its output to 2 channels driven of say, a Yamaha, the Yamaha will indeed put out more power (However the diff between 45 wpc and 75 wpc is less than 2dB; ie barely noticeable)."

I was only giving a shorter version of the same statement. LOL

 

[zumbo]

Last time I checked, H/K was not sooooooo marked down. I did a google search of the models you stated & was very suprised. Looks like a good time to snatch H/K up. The stuff I have is alot higher now, except for the Yamaha 1400. It is about what I paid.

 

[Leprkon]

sometimes, designers will provide a watts rating at just 1000 Hertz. the more conservative designers provide a watts rating across the entire frequency width (ie 28 to 20,000 Hertz). there's about 20 to 25 % greater headroom to achieve a given total harmonic distortion at 1 KHz than full range.

compare the THD and where it is measured (full width or just at 1KHz) to see the big picture.

 

[zumbo]

This is where I got my receiver. http://store.yahoo.com/lgdsuperstore/index.html
NO WARRANTY!
If you want a warranty, I would suggest:http://www.6ave.com/main.jsp
http://www.onecall.com/ http://www.yawaonline.com/index.html http://www.wildwestelectronics.net/

 

[MDS]

Funny that Anomyous said to "disregard statements like 45 HK watts are like 75 Japanese brand watts", and then said "Thus if you were driving 2 channels of an HK amp rated at 45wpc and compared its output to 2 channels driven of say, a Yamaha, the Yamaha will indeed put out more power (However the diff between 45 wpc and 75 wpc is less than 2dB; ie barely noticeable)."

I was only giving a shorter version of the same statement. LOL

My apologies if that is what you were trying to say...just doesn't sound that way to me. People often state things the way you did when they mean that 45 HK watts is really 75 other watts, which of course is ridiculous. 45 HK watts is 45 watts. 75 other brand watts is 75 watts.

HKs are consistent. If they say it is 45 watts, all channels driven, then it is. But when only driving 2 channels it still only puts out 45 watts per channel. The others concentrate on the 2 channel spec. They put out 75 wpc or more driving 2 channels, but less when all channels are driven (in the bench test only).

Like Leprkon said, these tests are often done at a single frequency or they drive the test for multiple seconds - two things that don't ever happen with real music or movies and thus the tests are next to useless anyway.

 

[zumbo]

I was just trying to give a short simple answer. I never thought about the 2 channel situation though. That is a good piece of information to have.

 

[PENG]

HK is generous with their power supplies while others such as Yamaha, Denon, Sony are more generous with the power transistors, heat sinks etc. Like Zumbo, for the same money, I prefer the brands that provide higher ratings of 1,2 channels. Within the same price range, HK does not always give more "total power (all channels driven)". They simply rate their output based on all channels driven, hence created (presumably unintentionally) the impression that they are actually more powerful than competing models from others.

 

[annunaki]

H/K receivers will output more power than their 5/6/7 channel ratings suggest. For instance, the AVR-230 is rated at 50 watts X 6. It is also rated at 65 watts X 2 in stereo. About a 1.5 db gain in output. Not that it is a real big difference, but they do give a two channel rating on their units as well.

 

[hopjohn]

Annuaki beat me to it. I was just going to say what he was saying. Just as pioneer and others will not meet their 2 ch spec w/ all ch. driven, H/K will exceed their all ch. driven spec, when driving only 2 ch. Not a huge difference, but worth mentioning for the purpose of understanding.

 

[PENG]

I know HK's 2 channel rating is higher than their all channel ratings but not significantly higher. My point is, if you compare a HK receiver and a similarly priced Denon, Pioneer, or Yamaha, the HK unit would likely not end up on top in terms of power output (I mean based on lab results by HTM or S&V e.g. AVR630 vs AVR3805). Yet, just because HK provides the so call "honest" ratings, people think their receivers are more powerful than their competitors.

That said, I agree the sound quality of HK receivers are excellent. If it wasn't their rediculously higher price in Canada I would have been a proud AVR7200 owner.