should i replace drivers ?

[old_el_paseo]

ok perfect ! just let me know what the results are. pretty sure i could do 2 woofers in each.

 

[old_el_paseo]

i bought the 2 other jbl mids today !! so i have the 4 jl audio 8'' 8w1v1 and the 4 jbl 6w4p ! so i just need to check out the tweeters ! looks like this project is gonna be for real
ill just need to check out the tweeters now !
i know that you are busy for a while so dont worry about it. just wanted to make sure you have the right info since there are 3 versions of the jl audio 8w1's. so here is the info on my specific version.

https://pdf.crutchfieldonline.com/ImageBank/v20090309143600/Manuals/136/1368W14.PDF

mine is the 8w1-4

you seemed to have all the info already on the jbl mids so no need to send you that

 

[TLS Guy]

i bought the 2 other jbl mids today !! so i have the 4 jl audio 8'' 8w1v1 and the 4 jbl 6w4p ! so i just need to check out the tweeters ! looks like this project is gonna be for real
ill just need to check out the tweeters now !
i know that you are busy for a while so dont worry about it. just wanted to make sure you have the right info since there are 3 versions of the jl audio 8w1's. so here is the info on my specific version.

https://pdf.crutchfieldonline.com/ImageBank/v20090309143600/Manuals/136/1368W14.PDF

mine is the 8w1-4

you seemed to have all the info already on the jbl mids so no need to send you that

I have the speaker alignments done. I have to do the mid/tweeter crossover. It all looks promising. The woofers need to be ported Sealed the F3 is 90 Hz and those drivers do not have enough xmax for Eq.

 

[old_el_paseo]

perfect. i cant wait to build build those. my dad has a lot of experience with wood so he will help me make them nice. and my uncle has been fixing high end electronic all his life so he will help me with the amps,crossovers (building your desings, and allof that. should sound good!

 

[TLS Guy]

Well first of all thank you for your patience.

I have had a lot on my plate lately. This speaker design ended up being a difficult and complex problem to make an elegant design for those drivers. However I'm now happy with the result.

The first file is the proper design for your JL Audio 12" woofer. I have no idea where JL audio come up with their box design it fails on every count. And so do the ones for the 8" driver.

Now I have done designs for two separate boxes for the JL 8" drivers and two to a box. I would recommend you make two singles. That way you will have a speaker with three divided enclosures which will add to strength and bracing. So you would have one 8 driver above and below the MTM enclosure. I think this will be the easiest build also.

I have done a design for the JBL MTM sealed enclosure.

Lastly there is the file of the Crossover for the JBL mids and SEAS tweeter. I had to change tweeters and had to search for a suitable one. It is this SEAS tweeter.

Now there is one component I could not place in the circuit. You will see there is a rise above 6 KHz in the model. You need to place a 2 mfd cap in parallel with the resistor Rp2. If it sounds a little bright you might have to go as high as 2.5 mfd. I had to do that calculation manually.

Now the bass enclosures will need light fill with about 50% of the surface covered. Use Polyfill. The sealed MTM enclosure will need completely filling with polyfill. Do not compress it.

Now you will need to add the following to all box volumes. Add 10% to cover driver displacement. Add the volume of all bracing and the slot vents.

Now the crossover from the 8" woofers to the mids need to be active. 200 Hz will be the ideal crossover point.

I suggest this Behringer unit. Sweetwater are excellent to deal with, and I would bag that demo unit.

I would engage the 25 Hz high pass filter on that unit. It will allow you to balance out the LF and Mid section.

Now for amps you will need a couple of 150 to 400 watt dual channel amps. They need to be four ohm stable.

Now some notes on the crossover. Those mids are not as sensitive as specked when you deal with the 3.5 KHz breakup mode. You loose about 9 db of sensitivity.

The crossover does have a short 2 ohm null at crossover, but this will not upset any decent amp.

The phase response, impedance response and group delay are spectacularly good.

I would not cross the main speakers over to the sub. Use the 25 Hz high pass in the Behringer. Gently bring your 12" sub starting at 60 Hz.

This should be a very good and potent speaker and be well into the 10 to 20 K per pair speaker range.

This design was a lot of work so I hope you build it and post lots of photographs.

If you want me to build the passive crossovers for you I can, and we can talk about charges.

If there is anything you don't understand, ask.

 

[old_el_paseo]

yeah i figured you would be busy when you mentionned you were moving, dont worry about it.its still cold here and i will be building these in my garage wich is not heated. so it wont be for at least a couple of weeks before i start cutting wood. Also my dad will be helping me build these and he will be leaving for a while this summer. so it will slow down the project. but i want to wait for him because i dont want these to look like the last ones i build... lol

you are not the first one to mention that jl audio enclosures specs are terrible. i thinks its the marketing department that forces them to publish smaller enclosures to attract buyers. right now if have the ''recomended'' 0.3 cubic feet sealed enclosure and they sound like walmart subwoofers. i soent a lot of time building 4 enclosures for the 8w1 subs. and they are not even plugged in. they just sound terrible. and i know they can sound good. these subs received awards for theyre sound quality.

and yes i will be making 2 seperate enclosures for the 8w1 drivers. since it will be w-m-t-m-w it will be easy to build them in seperate enclosures. using quality wood, sealing every corner.

i will be checking out what i will be using for the amps. but last friday i bough a denon avr-x3100w amp. it's a 7.2 channel 105wrms (rated at 2 channels driven). it replaced my old Denon avr 1603 wich still worked fine, but i wanted one with hdmi inputs and i want to upgrade to 7.1 when we buy a bigger house this summer.the new amp has preouts for all 7.2 channels. im not sure if crossover,hi-pass and low pass works on the preouts (i hope so). but its a really nice mp. great sound. ill figure out later what i will be using for power amps.

as for the questions, i have 2, well actually for now 1 question and 1 comment

1: the tweeter you suggested seems like a really good sounding one. but its only 80 watts long term (200 short term wich i guess is peak power). enclosures will have 200 watts of midrange. shouldnt i get tweeters that could handle more power ? this tweeter will limit the input power to 80 watts rms per tower. i dont mind

2: the 12'' sub is a jl audio 12w3 v1. i had mentionned it in post #10 but i guess i should have mentionned it again when i noticed you were gonna model them too. but dont worry about it. i still appreciate this a lot.

for the crossovers. i guess i would only need one for the midrange and tweeter. unless i bi-amp them from my denon wich would solve the problem. what would be you charge on the crossover ?

and thanks again for all your help. this is gonna be a great project ! its good to have help from someone with experience !

 

[TLS Guy]

yeah i figured you would be busy when you mentionned you were moving, dont worry about it.its still cold here and i will be building these in my garage wich is not heated. so it wont be for at least a couple of weeks before i start cutting wood. Also my dad will be helping me build these and he will be leaving for a while this summer. so it will slow down the project. but i want to wait for him because i dont want these to look like the last ones i build... lol

you are not the first one to mention that jl audio enclosures specs are terrible. i thinks its the marketing department that forces them to publish smaller enclosures to attract buyers. right now if have the ''recomended'' 0.3 cubic feet sealed enclosure and they sound like walmart subwoofers. i soent a lot of time building 4 enclosures for the 8w1 subs. and they are not even plugged in. they just sound terrible. and i know they can sound good. these subs received awards for theyre sound quality.

and yes i will be making 2 seperate enclosures for the 8w1 drivers. since it will be w-m-t-m-w it will be easy to build them in seperate enclosures. using quality wood, sealing every corner.

i will be checking out what i will be using for the amps. but last friday i bough a denon avr-x3100w amp. it's a 7.2 channel 105wrms (rated at 2 channels driven). it replaced my old Denon avr 1603 wich still worked fine, but i wanted one with hdmi inputs and i want to upgrade to 7.1 when we buy a bigger house this summer.the new amp has preouts for all 7.2 channels. im not sure if crossover,hi-pass and low pass works on the preouts (i hope so). but its a really nice mp. great sound. ill figure out later what i will be using for power amps.

as for the questions, i have 2, well actually for now 1 question and 1 comment

1: the tweeter you suggested seems like a really good sounding one. but its only 80 watts long term (200 short term wich i guess is peak power). enclosures will have 200 watts of midrange. shouldnt i get tweeters that could handle more power ? this tweeter will limit the input power to 80 watts rms per tower. i dont mind

2: the 12'' sub is a jl audio 12w3 v1. i had mentionned it in post #10 but i guess i should have mentionned it again when i noticed you were gonna model them too. but dont worry about it. i still appreciate this a lot.

for the crossovers. i guess i would only need one for the midrange and tweeter. unless i bi-amp them from my denon wich would solve the problem. what would be you charge on the crossover ?

and thanks again for all your help. this is gonna be a great project ! its good to have help from someone with experience !

First of all that tweeter will be fine as the L-pad reduces the input by 3 db. In any event manufacturers power handling specs don't mean much as it is so program dependent.

That tweeter in that design will have enough power handling to keep up with the mids.

The next issue is that 12w3 v1 woofer. I can not find the specs anywhere. So I took one from the family. Are you certain you have the correct model number? It is not listed in the JL Audio archive.

If you have the specs please post them. If we can't find the specs, you will have to get the equipment to measure it, or send the driver to me, so I can measure it.

Your Denon you just bought will be fine, but you will still need two external amps to drive these speakers. You will need to use the right and left preouts and then connect to the active electronic crossover and then to the bass and HF amps to drive those speakers.

As to cost I will have to source the component and let you know. Most of the cost will be the components.

 

[old_el_paseo]

sorry, ive been busy finding a job, but now its been confirmed that they hired me !! so ill have less time but more money.

ok, if you say that the tweeters will handle the power if i dont do anything stupid then i guess its ok. and yes 3db will be hardly noticable but half the power. so i guess that makes sense. i will order them soon.

for the crossovers i though you would charge for the plans. i didnt think you would build them. i have some pretty knowlegable and equiped friends for building the circuit (making the pc board lines or whatever you call it). they know how to build circuits but dont know much about audio (he is more into insane comminucation stuff)

for the jl audio 12w3 yes i am sure of the model. i wish i had the 12w3v3 but i cant afford them for now. so i bought 2 subs 12w3v1 and refoamed them
(the surround).same thing for the 4 subs 8w1v1,i found them used with dried surrounds and refoamed them. it was very easy and parts are easy to find for jl audio subs. here is a link to the pdf of the specs. mine is the 12w3-d4 (4 ohms). ive been powering them with 400wrms each for years in a too small sealed enclosure. it would be great to have decent enclosures for those.

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjwq-bk-LXaAhWI6oMKHWwNCgQQFggqMAA&url=http://mediacdn.jlaudio.com/media/mfg/9013/media_document/live_1/12W3_MAN.pdf?1323117416&usg=AOvVaw3TN7wikqu-LiFf7T1Msx9X

thanks a lot for your time !

 

[TLS Guy]

sorry, ive been busy finding a job, but now its been confirmed that they hired me !! so ill have less time but more money.

ok, if you say that the tweeters will handle the power if i dont do anything stupid then i guess its ok. and yes 3db will be hardly noticable but half the power. so i guess that makes sense. i will order them soon.

for the crossovers i though you would charge for the plans. i didnt think you would build them. i have some pretty knowlegable and equiped friends for building the circuit (making the pc board lines or whatever you call it). they know how to build circuits but dont know much about audio (he is more into insane comminucation stuff)

for the jl audio 12w3 yes i am sure of the model. i wish i had the 12w3v3 but i cant afford them for now. so i bought 2 subs 12w3v1 and refoamed them
(the surround).same thing for the 4 subs 8w1v1,i found them used with dried surrounds and refoamed them. it was very easy and parts are easy to find for jl audio subs. here is a link to the pdf of the specs. mine is the 12w3-d4 (4 ohms). ive been powering them with 400wrms each for years in a too small sealed enclosure. it would be great to have decent enclosures for those.

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjwq-bk-LXaAhWI6oMKHWwNCgQQFggqMAA&url=http://mediacdn.jlaudio.com/media/mfg/9013/media_document/live_1/12W3_MAN.pdf?1323117416&usg=AOvVaw3TN7wikqu-LiFf7T1Msx9X

thanks a lot for your time !

So you have the D4 version. That is dual VC 4 ohms each, so the driver will be 2 or 8 ohm. I modeled it for 8 ohm with the two VCs in series. The file is below.
I have already sent you the circuit. Your friends can build the crossovers. You already have the circuit. I should spec the components, since they are not familiar with crossovers. I will send you a component list, and where to source them. I use high quality components, but not insanely expensive ones.

 

[old_el_paseo]

wow thanks. guess i ready to start now ! ill start shopping for the materials soon. When i gets warmer i will start cutting. but today its snowing here, so i dont expect to be working outside for a couple of weeks. and cutting wood inside the house is a pain in the ... to clean up after.
this will probably go on all summer. but i will post pictures of everything and keep you updated !
thanks again !!

 

[TLS Guy]

wow thanks. guess i ready to start now ! ill start shopping for the materials soon. When i gets warmer i will start cutting. but today its snowing here, so i dont expect to be working outside for a couple of weeks. and cutting wood inside the house is a pain in the ... to clean up after.
this will probably go on all summer. but i will post pictures of everything and keep you updated !
thanks again !!

Where do you live? It is not snowing here in North Central MN, but southern MN and the Twin Cites have heavy snow and will get at least 15". The wind is gusting over 50 mph, and a full blizzard has been called. Most of the southern MN counties have all roads closed.

It is still very cold here and according to forecasts will stay cold into mid May. This is on track to be the coldest spring since 1895 and may surpass it. Lake Benedict and all lakes in this area have 3ft of hard ice. Lake of the Woods has 6 ft of ice, and experts say may not be clear of ice until late June or early July.

No lake in Minnesota has yet declared ice out. Fishing opener is one month today and I think lakes at least in Northern will be frozen at opener. The latest ice out for Leech Lake was May 25 1895 I think. We did have a May 15 ice a few years ago, and the Governor had to fish the Fish Hook river at Park Rapids as the lakes were frozen.

Last year we had docks lifts and boats in the Lake April 10. Now we still have high snow banks.

Anyhow I will post a components list for you.

 

[TLS Guy]

You will need two of these.

L1 You will need two of these. The circuit says 0.4 but these will be fine.

L2 You will need two of these. The circuit says 0.13 but these will be fine.

L3 You will need two of these.

C1 You will need two of these.

C2 You will need two of these. These are to bypass Rp2.

You might have add two of these across Rp2 as well if it is too bright.

Rp1 You will need two of these.

Rp2 You will need two of these.

You should be able to build the crossovers on two of these boards.

You will need four of these.

Any questions ask.

I think there might have been a problem with the crossover circuit loading in my design post. I have corrected it and include it here.

 

[old_el_paseo]

i live in Québec Canada. finally it didnt snow today (oh yeah!). hopefully it doesnt snow as annouced tomorrow too. im so tired of the snow. i wanna drink a beer in my yard under the sun.

thanks for the components. ill order the parts and give them to my friend. he will build them when he has some free time. he works as a technician at the power company so he really knows his stuff. ill probably order the tweeters this week too.

thanks again for all this. it must have been a lot of work !

 

[old_el_paseo]

Y.

Hello

dont worry i didnt forget about you. its just that i changed jobs so ive been very busy. i am finally starting the speaker boxes you modeled. i just have a few questions before i start.

1: the box volume, do they include the driver displacment ?

2: the jl audio 8w1v1 box volume, does it include the port displacment ?

3: do i have to put the drivers in the same enclosure or can i build seperate boxes for the drivers and then mount the enclosures together.

thanks a lot !

and i just noticed, these things will be huge !!

 

[old_el_paseo]

oh, i think i just answered one question myself. vb is box volume without the driver. and V(total) would be box volume including the driver.

so now i just need to know if the box volume includes the port or if i need to add the port volume to the box. sinc its a rectangle port my guess would be that it does not include the port volume.

also, if i seperate the enclosures for the sub it would complicate things with the port (change port lenght and widht).

 

[old_el_paseo]

hmmmm, seems like i should have done some work before i asked questions. you already calculated 2 ports. so that answers my last question....so ill get to work then. ill port pictures as i go along

 

[TLS Guy]

hmmmm, seems like i should have done some work before i asked questions. you already calculated 2 ports. so that answers my last question....so ill get to work then. ill port pictures as i go along

Yes, I did two designs for the 8" JL audio drivers, two to a box and one to a box. I strongly recommend that you build the speaker with three totally separate compartments. One for each 8" driver top and bottom and the sealed MTM HF mid enclosure between them.

Yes, I calculated Vb so you will have to add driver, brace and port volumes to get Vt.

Hope the project goes well and don't forget to post the pictures.

 

[old_el_paseo]

Thanks for the quick reply. And yes dont worry i will take lots of pictures and my dad will help me because i dont have much experience in wood and i want this to be very nice.

I calculated everything and they will not be that big. I imagined them bigger, i think it came out to 3.5 cubic feet total, so something like 12"x14"x45" (specs are at home).

I will also be building 2 coffee tables with integrated subs. Could you help me model the enclosure for that ? Just a simple calculation of the internal volume and port size.
You gave me the specs for the jl audio 12w3v1 but i upgraded subs (sold the subs to a friend, he will be using your modeling). I now have higher end subs, and i hoped you could model those .

I will be building the subwoofer coffee tables as i build the front towers. Summer is passing by very quick .

 

[TLS Guy]

Thanks for the quick reply. And yes dont worry i will take lots of pictures and my dad will help me because i dont have much experience in wood and i want this to be very nice.

I calculated everything and they will not be that big. I imagined them bigger, i think it came out to 3.5 cubic feet total, so something like 12"x14"x45" (specs are at home).

I will also be building 2 coffee tables with integrated subs. Could you help me model the enclosure for that ? Just a simple calculation of the internal volume and port size.
You gave me the specs for the jl audio 12w3v1 but i upgraded subs (sold the subs to a friend, he will be using your modeling). I now have higher end subs, and i hoped you could model those .

I will be building the subwoofer coffee tables as i build the front towers. Summer is passing by very quick .

If you tell me what they are I will model them for you.

 

[old_el_paseo]

of course i will give you the info ! thanks once again.
here is a link to the pdf.

https://130.com.ua/manuals/en/Manual-Car-subwoofer-Infinity-KAPPA-PERFECT-12VQ.pdf

my model is the Perfect12d VQ , so the 12'' dual 4 ohm voice coil.

its a pretty complicated subwoofer since it has inserts for a variable Q.
if i understand right, the best performance is without the insert. and that adapts it for the biggest box and best low end extension. wich is what i want. since it will be in a coffee table size doesnt really matter. i just want the best performance.
i will buy another one when i find one.
i already have one of these amps

https://www.crutchfield.ca/S-qvlxcWvmgQJ/p_1365001V2/JL-Audio-Slash-v2-Series-500-1v2.html

its powered by a 120 amp power supply. this amp give 500wrms no matter the input voltage or ohm load. so its great for this application.

so that will be two 12'' coffee tables of 400w rms each !! should be really nice.

just the sub alone is 25lbs with a 3'' voice coil a Magnesium Metal Matrix cone. its a really amasing subwoofer.
would like to have your opinion on it. hope i made a good choice exchanging the jl audio 12w3v1 for this.


thanks