Should I build a box for in-wall speakers?

[Grymlot]

In the video linked below, this guy argues that manufacturers are planning for a typical wall when they design in-wall speakers, and yet I've seen other videos of people building their own MDF box inside the wall to make the speakers sound better. I'm starting to think this guy is right though, because how are you supposed to know how much air pressure your MDF box should allow? How do you know if you're making things better vs worse?

I'm also unsure if putting MDF up against drywall is going to create too thick of a width for the in-wall speaker clamp thingys to grab onto, because they are designed for 1/2" drywall?

Thoughts?

 

[Pogre]

It depends on the speaker. Thats something you'd have to ask a manufacturer about and could even be not recommended by some.

 

[TLS Guy]

In the video linked below, this guy argues that manufacturers are planning for a typical wall when they design in-wall speakers, and yet I've seen other videos of people building their own MDF box inside the wall to make the speakers sound better. I'm starting to think this guy is right though, because how are you supposed to know how much air pressure your MDF box should allow? How do you know if you're making things better vs worse?

I'm also unsure if putting MDF up against drywall is going to create too thick of a width for the in-wall speaker clamp thingys to grab onto, because they are designed for 1/2" drywall?

Thoughts?

Putting speakers in a wall open to the wall space is a terrible idea. Good in wall speakers are enclosed. The problem is that you have to know the Thiel/Small parameters of the bass drivers, to know how to design the back box to correctly load them.

So for in wall you need to confine yourself to properly designed in wall speakers, and most are not, or to design and build your own properly. For my in wall system I designed my own.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Typical in-wall boxes replace the drywall they are going into and you definitely have to watch the depth of the speaker and box to ensure it will all fit properly. Look at the Triad in-wall speakers for an idea of the way I would try to do an in-wall box if I were building one. I might consider building the front speaker wall using 2x6 construction instead of 2x4 construction to get a bit more depth to work with if going this route.

 

[DigitalDawn]

Triad makes a Silver LCR that's either 4" or 6" deep.

 

[WookieGR]

I built back boxes for my in-ceiling speakers to help manage the bass, prevent insulation particles from getting all in the exposed areas of the speaker and to help reduce the amount of noise traveling through the walls into other rooms. Samre concepts apply to in-wall too.

As you can see, these are my personal reasons for doing so, not that the manufacturer required it. But they sell fire rated back boxes in case people want them. I believe there are more pro's than con's as long as the person doing the work isn't lazy and opt not to do it.

 

[Teetertotter?]

The Truth About In-Wall Speakers | Audioholics

You be the judge.

 

[Eppie]

Agree with Pogre, you need to consult with the installation manual or the manufacturer and learn what the speaker was designed for. I have Paradigm in-walls that were designed to use the wall cavity so no back box was required. There is significant sound transmission into the adjoining room though, so take that into account. It is also an interior wall, so take into account whether the wall will be insulated and need vapour barrier. Exterior walls in cold climates should be avoided unless you have the extra depth. As TLS Guy mentioned, good in-walls have back boxes and as far as I know the speakers from Triad and others like Focal or Speaker Craft have enclosures.

 

[Pogre]

I have Paradigm in-walls that were designed to use the wall cavity so no back box was required.

And what were saying is that in general the ones designed with a back box tend to be the better performers. That's where the advice stems from to have enclosed in-wall speakers. Not so much "build a back box regardless" as it is "look for in-walls that are designed for back boxes".

 

[panteragstk]

And what were saying is that in general the ones designed with a back box tend to be the better performers. That's where the advice stems from to have enclosed in-wall speakers. Not so much "build a back box regardless" as it is "look for in-walls that are designed for back boxes".

Mine sort of are, or at least they should be used with back boxes. I have the same brand with my in-ceiling speakers that do have a back, and the bass is actually there where with the in-walls, there isn't much below 80hz if not higher than that. My subs make up for it, but I know I'm missing bass.

Especially since I also have another set of in-ceiling in my living room from the same manufacturer, and even though they don't have back boxes, they produce a lot more bass than I would have thought. I guess they're sort of using my attic as an infinite baffle.

I still need to build boxes for those and look at a behind the couch sub.

Too many projects.

 

[Grymlot]

Typical in-wall boxes replace the drywall they are going into and you definitely have to watch the depth of the speaker and box to ensure it will all fit properly. Look at the Triad in-wall speakers for an idea of the way I would try to do an in-wall box if I were building one. I might consider building the front speaker wall using 2x6 construction instead of 2x4 construction to get a bit more depth to work with if going this route.

Is there a way to see a price on some Triad speakers, or are they made to order only?

 

[Danzilla31]

Is there a way to see a price on some Triad speakers, or are they made to order only?

You should PM @DigitalDawn who is I believe a dealer for them or at the least familiar with there line and can help answer your questions

 

[DigitalDawn]

Is there a way to see a price on some Triad speakers, or are they made to order only?

Sure. Email me at Dawn@EgretElectronics.com and I'll get any info you need.

 

[highfigh]

I find it odd that nobody considered the possibility that a typical wall cavity IS the space used for the design. That occurred to me yesterday and as I had mentioned, Focal can be contacted for info, and I did that before I even posted. They won't give me the parameters, but wrote that the typical cavity with 2x4 framing, 14" o.c. and 96" high is the volume they use. The fact that the internal height is 93-1/2" shouldn't matter much.

"Regarding placing the 1000 ICA-6 into an enclosure we would recommend that these be placed into a larger sealed enclosure. These speakers have been designed and engineered to be installed into an infinite baffle application and when placed into a smaller enclosure, can impact the lower frequency output. As an example, the 1000 ICW-6 is the same speaker, just without the angle option and can reside within a standard 2x4 wall cavity. this on average measures 3.5" x 14"x 96" equaling 2.72 cubic feet for optimum performance. As mentioned above, these can be placed in smaller enclosures but will affect the low-end frequencies. The smallest enclosure that we would recommend would be 1.25 cubic feet.".

 

[Eppie]

Doesn't surprise me highfigh. My Paradigm in-walls have no back boxes and the installation manual does not call for any as the wall cavity is the proper volume. The downside is that the adjoining room picks up a lot of vibration from the back of the speaker even with insulation in behind the drivers. That should be taken into account with in-walls. If you have an adjoining room and do not want the sound to bleed through then I would recommend an in-wall with back boxes over an open back design.

 

[highfigh]

Doesn't surprise me highfigh. My Paradigm in-walls have no back boxes and the installation manual does not call for any as the wall cavity is the proper volume. The downside is that the adjoining room picks up a lot of vibration from the back of the speaker even with insulation in behind the drivers. That should be taken into account with in-walls. If you have an adjoining room and do not want the sound to bleed through then I would recommend an in-wall with back boxes over an open back design.

Insulation helps, too. Might not be 100% effective, though.

 

[panteragstk]

My speakercraft speakers were the same. No call for boxes, but they also make boxes for their speakers so who knows.
I will say that I don't get enough bass from the mains. They're rated pretty low (35hz) but they don't really output below 60hz from what I can tell.
They still sound great though.

 

[j_garcia]

IMO, in-wall speakers which don't call for a back box are intended for their respective purpose - being mounted in a wall and the only real requirement is a separation of the front from back waves. So there is no calculation or volume sizing really necessary. There are also manufacturers who sell boxes designed for in-wall speakers simply to separate and protect, not so much to "tune".

 

[TLS Guy]

IMO, in-wall speakers which don't call for a back box are intended for their respective purpose - being mounted in a wall and the only real requirement is a separation of the front from back waves. So there is no calculation or volume sizing really necessary. There are also manufacturers who sell boxes designed for in-wall speakers simply to separate and protect, not so much to "tune".

My guess is that that is a tall story. I would really like to know the T/S parameters of those in wall drivers with no back box. The design is infinite baffle no matter what is said, unless you give it the correct sized back box. The Qts of an infinite baffle driver (no back box) needs to be 0.7 or higher which gets you into rarified air.
Not having a restoring force to driver designed for one risks damage to the motor system to say nothing of it being a lousy design.

So I designed my in will system to correct design principles. It is not just good for an in wall, but a very good speaker system, that can play bleeding loud if you want without damage.

My hunch is that the majority of these in wall systems are designed on a "breath and a prayer."

 

[highfigh]

My guess is that that is a tall story. I would really like to know the T/S parameters of those in wall drivers with no back box. The design is infinite baffle no matter what is said, unless you give it the correct sized back box. The Qts of an infinite baffle driver (no back box) needs to be 0.7 or higher which gets you into rarified air.
Not having a restoring force to driver designed for one risks damage to the motor system to say nothing of it being a lousy design.

So I designed my in will system to correct design principles. It is not just good for an in wall, but a very good speaker system, that can play bleeding loud if you want without damage.

My hunch is that the majority of these in wall systems are designed on a "breath and a prayer."

QTs needs to be .707 if the user or designer wants it to be well-damped and you know that some drivers are designed for infinite baffle mounting, whether you approve, or not. This is about marketing, convenience and acceptable to the masses, not "absolutely the best". Filtered high enough, these shouldn't have a problem with survival unless someone treats them like farm animals.