Should I Bi-amp or Bi-wire?

[mtrycrafts]

I have my speakers bi-wired. I originally didn't bother because I didn't know how to and I thought the speakers sounded great. I had read that the speaker manufacturer recommended Bi-wiring, so I looked into it. I realized it was a simple process, so I bi-wired. It made a big difference. My speakers sound much better bi-wired.

Speaker companies recommend it so they do not alienate those who insist on it no matter what. Customers mean more sales, so why not appease everyone?
As to making an audible difference with music,, that has yet to be demonstrated why bias is accounted for. So, you perceived something.

 

[rnatalli]

Speaker companies recommend it so they do not alienate those who insist on it no matter what. Customers mean more sales, so why not appease everyone?

Exactly right... Here's an article from Axiom that sums it up:

http://www.axiomaudio.com/tips_biwiring_and_biamping.html

 

[fmw]

Exactly right... Here's an article from Axiom that sums it up:

http://www.axiomaudio.com/tips_biwiring_and_biamping.html

Actually, it sums it up very well indeed. I appreciate the link. It gets back to real hearing (our ears) vs. perceptual hearing (our brains.) People tell us it will sound better biwired, we spend money on an additional set of wires, we listen fully expecting a sonic improvement from our labor and, like magic, we hear it. Been there done that. Until the audiophile is willing to the homework and conduct bias controlled tests, he will alway believe he can and should trust his ears. It's been like that since the 1960's and will probably be like that forever.

 

[OttoMatic]

For anyone that's not already aware, please note that this is the wrong forum to ask about bi-wiring or bi-amping. It's just the wrong place. Many people here are of the opinion that it makes no difference, as long as the amp in question is run within its normal operating range. If you ask the question, you will get shouted down. That's just the way it is. Sorry...

(For the record, I'm neither for, nor against, bi-wiring/bi-amping. It makes no difference to me if someone thinks they can hear a difference or not. I encourage anyone to experiment with their system for their own learning and enjoyment. Also, just because I may not be able to hear a difference does not mean that someone else will not be able to hear a difference.)

 

[chadnliz]

I'm learning to ignore the bait questions and statements, thanks.

I hope that includes foolish blanket statements that dismiss bi-wire and Bi-amp connections. People who say these simple minded things may either be repeating something they have heard and choose to believe, or maybe dont have equipment capable of resolving changes, have bad room's or poor placement, maybe cant hear well or a combination of all the above.
One poster gave a link earlier by a guy named Clint who while overall dismissed bi-wire admitted he bi-wires and heard a subtle difference, now what is subtle in one system can be profound in another. As earlier stated I have heard and not heard changes when I bi-wire, if you want to try it then I suggest you go for it and report your results, favorable or not. But in close make no mistake Bi-wire CAN make a difference.....notice how I said "can" and not something as arrogant as yes it does and that is that, or no it does not and that is that.....both views are equally foolish to champion.

 

[am74Gibson]

Wow!

I didn't mean to spur such a debate, I thought it would be an easy answer. I guess I will Bi-amp, just because I "can"

And why is this the wrong forum to ask this? I asked because my new speakers offer 2 sets of terminals for this purpose, and this IS the loudspeaker forum....right... I don't get it.

 

[chadnliz]

I didn't mean to spur such a debate, I thought it would be an easy answer. I guess I will Bi-amp, just because I "can"

And why is this the wrong forum to ask this? I asked because my new speakers offer 2 sets of terminals for this purpose, and this IS the loudspeaker forum....right... I don't get it.

I agree 100%, this place has a certain arrogance about it from a few people who think one way and that is it, nobody is welcome to feel different then they do and they let you know it, Thanks god there are some folks here that are ready to help instead of pouncing on a poster who is trying to ask a legitimate question.

 

[chadnliz]

For anyone that's not already aware, please note that this is the wrong forum to ask about bi-wiring or bi-amping. It's just the wrong place. Many people here are of the opinion that it makes no difference, as long as the amp in question is run within its normal operating range. If you ask the question, you will get shouted down. That's just the way it is. Sorry...
Are speakers directly involved with amps and wires? I ask again why is this question not proper here, and if not here then where?

Isnt this an audio advice website? Or is this a club where only like minded Kool-Aid drinkers are welcome?

 

[The Chukker]

I didn't mean to spur such a debate, I thought it would be an easy answer. I guess I will Bi-amp, just because I "can"

And why is this the wrong forum to ask this? I asked because my new speakers offer 2 sets of terminals for this purpose, and this IS the loudspeaker forum....right... I don't get it.

Debate is healthy, you didn't do anything wrong or ask a "loaded" question. The problem lies in the fact that you have a hobby which generates a lot of emotion in its members and propagates misinformation both within the industry as well as within its own ranks. As much as I agree with "try first then decide" to me this pertains to things like speaker placement and whatnot. However when the overwhelming scientific evidence is clear, and in this case even the speaker manufacturers have come clean, what quantifiable benefit can you hope to achieve? My experimentation with bi-wiring resulted in $600.00 profit going straight into Audioquest's coffers with no discernible benefit other than growing a healthy sense of skepticism. Being a lemming sucks .

 

[OttoMatic]

And why is this the wrong forum to ask this? I asked because my new speakers offer 2 sets of terminals for this purpose, and this IS the loudspeaker forum....right... I don't get it.

Yeah, the loudspeaker forum is the right place to ask. I meant "Audioholics" in general isn't the right place to ask. It's a rather objectivist site. Audioholics is going to stick with the "there's no evidence" argument, and that's about as far as it goes.

 

[rnatalli]

Audioholics is going to stick with the "there's no evidence" argument, and that's about as far as it goes.

What's else is there? There is no evidence that bi-wiring has any audible effect. Bi-amping is another story and can yield real results. As for bi-wiring, if people want to spend money on cables they don't need for a gain that doesn't exist, by all means they're free to do so. People are also free to believe the world is flat against all objective and scientific evidence as well.

 

[OttoMatic]

QED.

Like I said, I don't care about it that much. Just stating what's going to happen at the forum. It's neither good nor bad. It's just the way it is.

 

[chadnliz]

What's else is there? There is no evidence that bi-wiring has any audible effect. Bi-amping is another story and can yield real results. As for bi-wiring, if people want to spend money on cables they don't need for a gain that doesn't exist, by all means they're free to do so. People are also free to believe the world is flat against all objective and scientific evidence as well.

That is odd considering a link to an article by some guy named Clint earlier in this post where he said he heard "Subtle differences"..... I assume the article was written by a guy who carries some weight in these forums so, that isnt evidence?, if one can hear a subtle change perhaps that would be more pronounced to another in a diiferent system. Many others note hearing differences at times including myself, that isnt evidence?
If some cant hear changes in their systems then thats cool but to tell everyone they wont and if they think they do they are wrong is anything but cool, I am pretty sure many have can not hear changes in their systems and I am pretty sure if I knew more about these people, their gear and other variables in their systems I could point out a reason why it may be they cant.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Audioholics is going to stick with the "there's no evidence" argument, and that's about as far as it goes.

Actually, I did not stop at the "no evidence" argument, but provided a very clear explanation of exactly why biwiring does not and cannot make any difference whatsoever. Please refer to post #16.

 

[davidtwotrees]

I'd have to agree with Ottomatic that any "subjectivist" statements tend to get shouted down here. With that said, my personal experience with all of the objectivist mantras "shouted" here have been spot on. I tried the biamp road. I had two 250 wpc amps, one sitting next to each of my full range cantons in a vertically biamped fashion.......so that was 250w x 2 to each speaker.....The Canton's sounded great...........but when I hooked them back up to my solid 125x5 amplifier, in a normal, non biamped set up, there was no discernible difference! Did I do a level matched dbt? No. But considering I had FOUR times the power running to each speaker, there should have been a huge difference. So to think running some tiny rear surround channel amps will make any difference is kind of funny.
I will close with the fact that it is all about the music and sound for me. My only complaint with the objectivist bible is it makes the music a sterile scientific sounding proposition.......when the lights are off, and I am in my leather easy chair by the fireplace, and the music is filling the room from all angles..........I could care less about dbts and measurements and cables and what is powering what. When Sia Furler is singing to me in my living room, that, my friends is what matters most in my system.........

 

[Brett A]

......when the lights are off, and I am in my leather easy chair by the fireplace, and the music is filling the room from all angles..........I could care less about dbts and measurements and cables and what is powering what. When Sia Furler is singing to me in my living room, that, my friends is what matters most in my system.........

Well said. Thanks

 

[rnatalli]

I'd have to agree with Ottomatic that any "subjectivist" statements tend to get shouted down here. With that said, my personal experience with all of the objectivist mantras "shouted" here have been spot on. I tried the biamp road. I had two 250 wpc amps, one sitting next to each of my full range cantons in a vertically biamped fashion.......so that was 250w x 2 to each speaker.....The Canton's sounded great...........but when I hooked them back up to my solid 125x5 amplifier, in a normal, non biamped set up, there was no discernible difference! Did I do a level matched dbt? No. But considering I had FOUR times the power running to each speaker, there should have been a huge difference. So to think running some tiny rear surround channel amps will make any difference is kind of funny.
I will close with the fact that it is all about the music and sound for me. My only complaint with the objectivist bible is it makes the music a sterile scientific sounding proposition.......when the lights are off, and I am in my leather easy chair by the fireplace, and the music is filling the room from all angles..........I could care less about dbts and measurements and cables and what is powering what. When Sia Furler is singing to me in my living room, that, my friends is what matters most in my system.........

Biamping is very different than biwiring and does provide benefits like has already been stated here and in the Axiom article. Your second statement is a qualitative one and ultimately all that matters is your mood and enjoyment of sound. I agree. However, places like Audioholics exist to keep people from blowing money and doing things that are completely unnecessary and to prove the world isn't flat. They are coming here for objective advice on whether something will make a real difference or not. Audioholics is about being practical. If people want to receive justifications for bi-wiring, $7.5k cables, and/or Bose systems, people are in the wrong place. Audioholics choose not to dilute themselves. This is analogous to someone who buys a designer shirt for $200 at Filene's when the Basement had the exact same shirt for $20. If it makes people happy to spend money for subjective appeasement, more power to them.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Forget bi-amping, tri-amping, or even quad-amping. I vote for Hex-Amping!

 

[B3Nut]

My only complaint with the objectivist bible is it makes the music a sterile scientific sounding proposition.......when the lights are off, and I am in my leather easy chair by the fireplace, and the music is filling the room from all angles..........I could care less about dbts and measurements and cables and what is powering what. When Sia Furler is singing to me in my living room, that, my friends is what matters most in my system.........[/QUOTE

Not at all. All objectivism does is provide a scientifically-sound basis for initial equipment selection and installation. None of we "meter-readers " would deny that the music is what matters in the end...we merely want to make sure we're worrying about the right things when compiling and installing a system. Once it's all in place, then absolutely it's all about the music and the ability of good music to take you far, far away. We just don't want to be "had" on the way to that destination, and the scientific method is the means to that end. But of course it's all about the music in the end...that's what we want a high-fidelity playback system for in the first place! Enjoy the music.

 

[Brett A]

Forget bi-amping, tri-amping, or even quad-amping. I vote for Hex-Amping!

How about oct-amping?
From this audioreview page:
http://www.audioreview.com/cat/speakers/floorstanding-speakers/b-and-w/PRD_119136_1594crx.aspx

"Amplification in this system is from 13 Krell 650W Monoblocks - 8 of these are for the snail-shell Nautilus, which differs from most other speaker designs in that it is active: the crossovers come in a separate box, split the signal, and pass it to each amplifier. 4 drivers per Nautilus = 4 monoblocks per speaker. "