Sealed box for Mule????

[brian32672]

Here is a general idea. I have talked to you over the phone.
And know just about the exact sound you are looking for.
Here are some of the differences between a sealed and a ported sub.


Sealed Sub

Sealed enclosures usually produce a flat, extended and "tight" bass response but are less efficient than ported enclosures, so you'll need a powerful amplifier to get loud bass. A sealed box is a good choice for an accurate, more sophisticated sound. It is critical with this kind of design that the box be well constructed and absolutely airtight. Air leaks will cause noises that are easily mistaken as blown driver noises.

Ported Sub

Ported or "vented" boxes have the advantage of delivering high bass output with less amplifier power than is needed for a sealed enclosure. Ported boxes can have very good deep bass response but will be less "tight" sounding than a sealed box. Vented boxes are larger than a sealed enclosure. At high volume levels the port can make a "chuffing" noise because of high speed air-flow in the port tube. Ported systems with high "Vent Air Velocity" (see Interpreting Subwoofer Technical Data below) are not good choices for people who want to play their systems very loud.

There is also Band Pass, but it will have a boomy sound that you are not looking for.
You are looking for a sub that goes no lower than 50hz and no higher than about 150hz. And will have a authoritve pop (or punch that you can feel) in this range. I truly think the sound you are looking for will come from a sealed box. If it was a low sound you were after then I would say a ported.

 

[mulester7]

.....Brian, I appreciate it as you know I am a little bashful about posting....we should explore all options before the dropping of snake-skins....Brian is an awfully good man, Folks, imo.....

.....edit....many thanks to Brian and McKesslor for my now having an avatar.....

 

[mulester7]

As stated on the phone,
You already have your deep lows, lows, mids, mid highs, and highs covered. And that you are looking for mid lows.

.....yes, Brian, from about 50-150 is what I want covered by the small cannons concerning the sub range....and Folks, 150 is lower than I suspect most envision it, and 150 at the BOTTOM of the mains regiment, sounds totally different from 150 as the TOP of the sub/s.....

 

[WmAx]

.....yes, Brian, from about 50-150 is what I want covered by the sub range....and Folks, 150 is lower than I suspect most envision it.....

What an odd way[?] to start out a thread; also an unusual target range for a subwoofer.

BTW, the generalizations in the starting post are just that...

Mulester7, since this thread is here, please explain the situation.

-Chris

 

[mulester7]

Mulester7, since this thread is here, please explain the situation

.....Chris, like I said, Brian is a very good man....not only is it totally enlightening to talk to him on the phone, as I have now for a total of about 5 hours, but Brian displays an attitude of wanting to help that is rare....

.....Chris, you're standing 10 feet from a sub not necessarily designed for long-throw, but you have a long-throw 12 inch coned-element, front-face mounted front-firing.....the sub is off the floor about 18 inches and the sub is receiving a full-range signal that has been bottom-cut from 50 down, and is top cut at 150....

.....which type of enclosure will make more "punch" and "authority" hit you, 10 feet away?....sealed or ported?......

 

[WmAx]

.....which type of enclosure will make more "punch" and "authority" hit you, 10 feet away?....sealed or ported?......

1st, you must define what you mean 'punch' and 'authority'. These are subjective terms that I do not see being defined in a quantitive/meaningful manner. However, the degree of any effect depends entirely on the amplitude(volume/SPL) at the specific frequency band[that you consider to be punch] that you experience at the listening position. Ultimately, what is important[and relevant] to the situation is the frequency response at your listening position, the SPL within required bandwidth, low frequency dispersion(most LF devices are omnidirectional, but exceptions exist such as dipole and cardoid systems--but this ultimately effects the other two factors) and the integration with the main speakers at Fc(frequency crossover) between the sub(s) and main(s). Your room acoustics will have a very big effect, as will the placement of the speakers in interaction with this issue.

-Chris

 

[mulester7]

1st, you must define what you mean 'punch' and 'authority'. These are subjective terms that I do not see being defined in a quantitive/meaningful manner. However, the degree of any effect depends entirely on the amplitude(volume/SPL) at the specific frequency band[that you consider to be punch] that you experience at the listening position. Ultimately, what is important[and relevant] to the situation is the frequency response at your listening position, the SPL within required bandwidth, low frequency dispersion(most LF devices are omnidirectional, but exceptions exist such as dipole and cardoid systems--but this ultimately effects the other two factors) and the integration with the main speakers at Fc(frequency crossover) between the sub(s) and main(s). Your room acoustics will have a very big effect, as will the placement of the speakers in interaction with this issue.

-Chris

.....ok, sealed or ported?....do the best you can, haha....being front-firing takes away most of the room issues.....

 

[WmAx]

.....ok, sealed or ported?....do the best you can, haha....being front-firing takes away most of the room issues.....

Sealed or ported? Not that simple. Sealed enclosures may appear to be tighter-sounding sound in many instances because the further reduced amplitude in lower frequencies excites fewer room modes. However, you can actually modify the frequency response of a ported enclosure to sound identical, yet retain the lower non-linear distortion advantages at high SPL that the ported enclosure will have. So far as front firing takes away room issues? Ported and sealed subwoofers are omni-directional. The change in response that may be percieved by front firing vs. rear firing setup will be due to changing the position of the bass source by a few inches[by flipping the speaker cone or port from front to back for example], thus exciting room modes differently relative to the fixed listening position. This is the same as simply moving the location of the device. I am very concerned about you how you plan to crossover to the mains at 150Hz(so far as locations/distances, possible subwoofer resonances and crossover slopes).

-Chris

 

[brian32672]

A ported box will give him a punch for a low like a atom bomb. But I have heard superb sealed boxes that are more controlled than a ported box. And that is not meant to hit 18hz. I am not talking about a cheap truck sealed box. Granted a sealed enclosure will always be smaller than a ported box. And the tuning of a sealed box is entirely up to the exact dimensions of the box. And there is no room for error. To where some of the frequency tuning for a ported box will lay in the port width and lenght. So if there is a little error in the box size, some can be fixed with a port more suited for the box.

I am certain he will feel a better percusion with a sealed box. For the tonal range he is looking for. And a ported box will mainly get a feel for the lower frequencies.

 

[mulester7]

I am very concerned about you how you plan to crossover to the mains at 150Hz(so far as locations/distances, possible subwoofer resonances and crossover slopes)-Chris

.....thanks, Chris, I'll report is all I can say....shoot, I may go to a sealed car box that takes only one element before I'm done....I hate these quests, haha....(far the contrary)......

 

[WmAx]

I am certain he will feel a better percusion with a sealed box. For the tonal range he is looking for. And a ported box will mainly get a feel for the lower frequencies.

And no one[apparently] even reads what I write... or maybe just don't take me seriously(?)... or maybe did not understand(?)...

-Chris

 

[WmAx]

was said that seriously conflicts with what I said?????
Not trying to be funny....

Your insistance that the solution is as simple as a sealed box after I posted a more specific explanation of the relevant factors. I apologize if I was not clear enough, and if so, please quote specific statements that I made that require further clarification.

-Chris

 

[mulester7]

And no one[apparently] even reads what I write... or maybe just don't take me seriously(?)... or maybe did not understand(?)...

-Chris

.....Chris, I understood, I took you seriously, and read it twice....I found walls to scale prematurely....I gotta' decide which type I am going to say has the best chances....then when I get it, my mechanical skills of turning knobs, and ears, will work out the details....you gotta' get it on the level of a poorly-equipped but determined, hillbilly audiophyle, Chris.....

 

[brian32672]

Your insistance that the solution is as simple as a sealed box after I posted a more specific explanation of the relevant factors. I apologize if I was not clear enough, and if so, please quote specific statements that I made that require further clarification.

-Chris

Ok, noted. Maybe instead of saying I'm certain. I should have said I'm pretty sure.

IMO, he will feel more "pop" with a controlled sealed sub. With his crossover set at the ranges he wants. Over the ranges set with a ported sub. I just don't think it will have more of a pop or "cannon" sound that he is looking for. Being that a ported sub even with a crossover set at 50-150, will be a tad more sloppy than a sealed "controlled box".

I do not claim to know, all technical facts by no means.
Just that I have had the luxury of being in a shop that did sealed boxes.
And in IMO, they always had the advantage on controlled sound.

 

[WmAx]

IMO, he will feel more "pop" with a controlled sealed sub. With his crossover set at the ranges he wants. Over the ranges set with a ported sub. I just don't think it will have more of a pop or "cannon" sound that he is looking for. Being that a ported sub even with a crossover set at 50-150, will be a tad more sloppy than a sealed "controlled box".

He may very well have more 'pop' with a sealed box, but it would be due to less room mode interference[due to frequency respnose] at low frequencies and/or less higher frequency resonances[that would result in muddy sounding lower midrange if the larger size ported box dimensions approximated 1/2 wavelength of frequencies not sufficiently attenuated by a certain point] due to the smaller box dimensions with the unusually high crossover point, if he actually uses near a 150 Hz crossover point.

BTW, I still don't know the full set of circumstances surrounding this situation -- as so far only a little bit of information has been given by mulester or yourself.

-Chris

 

[brian32672]

BTW, I still don't know the full set of circumstances surrounding this situation
-Chris

Ok, forget about circumstances.
And I am not sure of the tech facts on this.
But here is the question.
Will he be able to get a more of a (authoritive) pop and feel from a ported box set at the range of no lower than 50 and no higher than say 160. Or would it be more controllable to get the (authoritive) pop and feel from a sealed box?

Edit:::: Pop is more of the sound, and it is stated in the above beginning 3 posts as to the sounds I am talking about. Atom compared to a 12 gauge

 

[WmAx]

Will he be able to get a more of a pop and feel from a ported box set at the range of no lower than 50 and no higher than say 160. Or would it be more controllable to get the pop and feel from a sealed box?

That depends on the factors mentioned in post no. 10 and post no. 18.

The best solution for such a high frequency response cutoff is to use 2 subwoofers, one near each main speaker, using a steep crossover to integrate between the mains and subwoofers, and then to use equalization to correct measured room response errors and/or achieve a specific frequency response target function that suits the listener's preference(s). However, optimizing with equalization will require (1.) an equalizer (2.) measurement ability. Note: In the case of severe frequency respnose nulls that may be affecting the 'hard hitting', that can not be corrected with reasonable movement of speaker position(s); acoustic bass traps devices would be required.

-Chris

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Ok, forget about circumstances.
And I am not sure of the tech facts on this.
But here is the question.
Will he be able to get a more of a pop and feel from a ported box set at the range of no lower than 50 and no higher than say 160. Or would it be more controllable to get the pop and feel from a sealed box?

With equal power in both units - go with the ported box. You'll need at least 700 watts of dynamic power to push a sealed 10" woofer accompanied by a single band parametric eq to favorable levels. A ported box can reach the same levels with less than half that dynamic power. If power and money are not at stake, then go the sealed route. As Chris stated earlier, room acoustics, placement, and integration with the existing drivers is paramount to making this work.

Read pg. 5 of this article. It may clear up a few things.
http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/loudspeakers/AV123RocketUFW-10Subwoofer5.php

 

[mulester7]

.....(you could cut the tension with a knife, haha)....(SLAP!!)....(ok, ok Clint, I'll straighten up).....(stings!)....

 

[mulester7]

With equal power in both units - go with the ported box. You'll need at least 700 watts of dynamic power to push a sealed 10" woofer accompanied by a single band parametric eq to favorable levels. A ported box can reach the same levels with less than half that dynamic power. If power and money are not at stake, then go the sealed route. As Chris stated earlier, room acoustics, placement, and integration with the existing drivers is paramount to making this work.

Read pg. 5 of this article. It may clear up a few things.
http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/loudspeakers/AV123RocketUFW-10Subwoofer5.php

.....Buck, you're like me....I love the tightness of the subs in a car....you have advised the Cadence to me thinking it will fill the bill for my need in my home...is that still your position?.....