Sealed 18" Dayton RSS460HO-4 in 4 cu ft "Kit" - Best thing since sliced bread?

[panteragstk]

I never should have come to this thread. Now I want to build a subwoofer.

Right there with you. Makes it especially hard since I've got so many other things to do right now. Sheesh.

 

[lsiberian]

The first time I saw you recommend this to someone I thought it had to be a scam. It's a good enough deal that I'd consider ordering 4 for my room, but I am convinced after hearing Marks system that proper porting for bass simply can't be beat. I am considering having a pro build my next cabinets and selling my tools. But this certainly is a factor in my next upgrade after the mains.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Still trying to get with the battle plan. Next step is amp.
Currently looking into a) Behringer inuke1000dsp = $250-300 or b) Crown 1500 XLS - $400 or $300 refub

Behringer
Pros:
Includes built in dsp
accepts unbalanced inputs

Cons:
Questionable long term reliability
Power output lower than driver max - 700W rms (possible solution - $100 more for 3000dsp with 2000w bridged in 4ohm rms)
Confusing connection? How to bridge with Neutrik speakon connectors - no documentation

Crown :
Pros:
More than enought power
accepts unbalanced inputs
Very easy inputs and outputs including bridged mode
Better and higher recommended brand (better quality?)

Cons:
No built-in dsp - will need to add MiniDSP
Total more expensive. $400+$105 => more than $200 expensive over Behringer 1000dsp (and $100 more over 3000dsp)

Any thoughts?
Specifically regarding if someone could explain to me in plain english how to connect sub to inuke x000dsp in bridged mode
I have found this post, but it's confusing me
behringer inuke bridged cable question - TalkBass Forums

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

nvm, i have figured the connectivity for behringers: details here:
Speakon 4 Pole Wiring Question

 

[fuzz092888]

I don't know anything about the Behringer DSP and its interface, but I can comment on miniDSP. The miniDSP you get more filters than with the behringer (12 total), plus high pass and low pass filters. The miniDSP interface is also computer based and extremely easy to use. Combine it with REW and you have an auto-EQ that pretty much allows you to do the minimum amount of work and get the most from the unit and the sub. I've been very happy with my miniDSP and want to get a few more for other projects and for the EQ feature.

If it were me, I'd go with the reliability and much quieter fans (I've read the inuke's fans are loud) of the crown and the easy (easier?) interface of the miniDSP with its auto EQ features. I think in the end it is worth the extra money, but then again I've never tried an inuke. Although my experiences with my miniDSP and Crown amp don't exactly make me want to roll the dice, YMMV.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I have discovered more info on limitation of inuke dsp here:
Behringer iNuke DSP amps - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com
Any plans to add support for behringer inuke dsp in REW? - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

and yes, people do report it's loud

it looks like inukes are off the list.. need to find some another deal .... maybe on 2nd hand market

 

[fuzz092888]

If you do go the miniDSP route, don't forget shipping is like $20 and that you'll need a cheap cell phone charger if you don't have one/an extra one to power it once it is setup.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Usb chargers is not an issue. Am in IT and I have tons of them. In addition to shipping id also need to buy the plug-in for minidsp

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

just wanted to update this thread with notes from Josh Ricci:

If you look at the CEA-2010 output for any of the DIY systems you cannot use enough amplifier to produce the upper bass output levels without also having a system that could be catastrophically damaged at any second by too much signal wither for too much duration or too much power in the deep bass.

The RS18HO for example can work safely with an amplifier of 1500w rating or less in a sealed enclosure of that size or smaller. If you look at the voltages used during the long term output sweeps and during CEA-2010, the potential maximum voltage output of the amplifier should realistically be kept under 85 volts to prevent the driver from being potentially bottomed out in the low bass. Looking at the impedance measurement of the system shows it to be a 4ohm minimum load which along with an 85 volt maximum input indicates a power input of about 1800w. Any more voltage potential than this can cause mechanical damage to the driver potentially.

This does not address thermal limits or long term safety of the driver vc from burning when using an amp with this much potential as that will be determined entirely by the signal content, duration and the users aggresiveness with the volume knob. The driver could probably be torched with that much amplifier but it would be unlikely if the user had any sort of common sense, however that is far from guaranteed.

Anyway both Shady and Bored are correct. You only need in an amplifier in the 750-1500w range to get maximum "safe" potential out of the RS18, but you will not be able produce the CEA-2010 peak output levels recorded at 40Hz and above and will likely run into amp clipping 4-6dB earlier.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/subwoofers/86650-subwoofer-purchase-question.html#post984070

 

[panteragstk]

I will say that the Crown XLS1500 would be my choice. Crown has one of the best (if not the best) warranties in the pro amp business. I got a used one for $250 that had a year left on the warranty. Guitar center got it from another one of their stores for me and their extended warranty is pretty good on used gear. I think it only cost $25 or so more for an extra 2 year warranty. Not bad IMHO. I also plan to get a mini DSP, but other things have taken up my money for the foreseeable future. Which sucks.

 

[ARES24]

I have to give a vote for the crown option, I am runnin a 1002 amp, one channel driven for my rss460ho-4 18". It rocks everything I need. I am running a ported version tho. It is 9 cubic feet and far larger then you are looking for. I just want to reiterate the crown option ....... sorry for the long answer..

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Why XTi 1002 vs XLS 1500?

 

[fuzz092888]

Why XTi 1002 vs XLS 1500?

I'm not sure. They both have about the same amount of power, but the xti has no RCA's. It does have system monitoring and may have more EQing capability. Xti has fan control, but XLS has such quiet fans anyways I'm not sure that's a bonus. It just seems like the XTI is made more for pro touring.

Nothing against the Xti, just not sure it's worth the extra $100 when that could be put towards a miniDSP.

 

[TLS Guy]

The first time I saw you recommend this to someone I thought it had to be a scam. It's a good enough deal that I'd consider ordering 4 for my room, but I am convinced after hearing Marks system that proper porting for bass simply can't be beat. I am considering having a pro build my next cabinets and selling my tools. But this certainly is a factor in my next upgrade after the mains.

Thank you for your comments. However what you hear here is a very different kettle of fish, to a standard ported enclosure, or even a so called mass loaded TL. The ports are the open ends of specialized Gedeckt Pipes. Sure there is port radiation, but the openings are sized large enough not to influence or modify the physics of the pipe. This is very different from the porting we usually discuss here.

In addition the main speakers, are two pipes in one enclosure, so there is uniform support of drivers over close to two and a half octaves. That is pretty much a unique situation.

But you are right, the bass reproduction is incredibly, if not totally realistic, and the rest of the audio range has also received similar care, and the bass never spoils clarity and is effortless. No one who has heard this system, has not been immediately taken aback by the detailed, balanced and effortless bass, just like you were.

 

[panteragstk]

I'd be very interested in a design like you are talking about. Smooth bass is a very high concern for me. Another thread may be appropriate.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

 

[fuzz092888]

Here are the pictures for the speakers he's talking about. Not exactly a simple build.

CONSTRUCTION AND INSTALLATION OF TRANSMISSION LINE SPEAKERS FOR WALBERSWICK STUDIOS AND THE BEGINNING OF EQUIPMENT INSTALLATION - mdcarter's Photos

 

[panteragstk]

Here are the pictures for the speakers he's talking about. Not exactly a simple build.

CONSTRUCTION AND INSTALLATION OF TRANSMISSION LINE SPEAKERS FOR WALBERSWICK STUDIOS AND THE BEGINNING OF EQUIPMENT INSTALLATION - mdcarter's Photos

Nice. I was under the impression that he was speaking of a sub build. Very nice though.

 

[fuzz092888]

Nope just some big a$$ towers

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Uggg, Real life has a way (and wife) getting in the way of such projects.. The truth is building it in my small apartment is Maybe, borderline ok, but no way in heck I could paint it inside.
Other finishes, like ether to complex for me (laminate) or too ugly (gray carpet). Leaving it base mdf is not very desired.

With these in mind and the total cost of parts, materials, tools and extras - the bill could easily come close to 900-950

That's not far off from PSA XS30 which comes all ready, has auto-power switch off, very low stand-by usage and accepts consumer level inputs from the get-go ...
XS30 on specs do look pretty impressive and has good warranty as well

Will just have to add another $135 for mini-dsp

 

[lsiberian]

Uggg, Real life has a way (and wife) getting in the way of such projects.. The truth is building it in my small apartment is Maybe, borderline ok, but no way in heck I could paint it inside.
Other finishes, like ether to complex for me (laminate) or too ugly (gray carpet). Leaving it base mdf is not very desired.

With these in mind and the total cost of parts, materials, tools and extras - the bill could easily come close to 900-950

That's not far off from PSA XS30 which comes all ready, has auto-power switch off, very low stand-by usage and accepts consumer level inputs from the get-go ...
XS30 on specs do look pretty impressive and has good warranty as well

Will just have to add another $135 for mini-dsp

I woodwork on an apartment balcony. You still need a lot of tools though.

1. Circular saw(100)
2. Router(200)
3. Drill(60)
4. Self clamping Straight edge(30)
5. Clamps(Corner and bar) (50)
6. Shop Vac (50)
7. Bits, Blades and Glue. (100)

Building a simple subwoofer box still has a lot of challenges. The nice part is I can build shelves and other items in addition to speakers. In fact I suggest a shelf project first because you learn your tools a lot better that way and have greater margin for error.