Save me from months of research! Beginner seeking help!

GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
thanks for all the input, I took a look at all of them. Its looking like I should just go ahead and buy a receiver. The thing about that is I know I will never really want to work up to filling a 7.1 receiver. Now i'm thinking I should buy a receiver and two speakers for the moment and then invest in a sub when the funds become available.
Why not get two powered speakers for now? Then add a receiver with preouts after if you do decide to add a sub?

Are their no subs around $200 that can match the z2300 in range and volume?
Sure there are. Logitech subs are absurdly bad. Lavasub and HSU Research should have some options for you, or spend more and get a Rythmik FV12 or two :D
 
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gggooolllooo

Audioholic Intern
makes sense. so your suggesting the LSR2328P? do you have any suggestions in the $300-$400 range?
 
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gggooolllooo

Audioholic Intern
and any knowledge on audioholics own stores EMP ES10ir sub listed at a fair $250?
 
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gggooolllooo

Audioholic Intern
sorry for all the multiple posts but this sub you referred to really seems to fit my bill

10 Inch Powered Subwoofer - LSP10
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
I can't agree to that. That's like me saying "12 awg wire will have stronger bass than 16 awg wire". You would raise an eyebrow, no?

There are least a few very really good high end speakers with 8" mids.... Linkwitz Orion (and that one has a very difficult-to-work-with magnesium cone, unlike the JBL), KEF Q900, Gedlee Harper, Vapor Aurora. These designs simply would not be "themselves" if you "shrunk them down", and it's not just about "bass".

So I won't agree to disagree... it's conjecture and while it's fun, it's not in OP's interest IMO. The two possible reasons I can imagine resulting in your suspicion would be

1) Cone breakup is not adequately suppressed (this is actually the case in the aformentioned KEF Q900 and is mostly a cheap-crossover and driver material issue)

2) The tweeter can not cross low enough without leavings its linear comfort zone (the LSR2328P is crossed at 2khz, the LSR2325P is crossed at 1.7khz... it seems they were engineered for different SPLs for sure. At the same SPL, the higher crossed tweeter on the 8" would be under less stress.)

3) The larger box is more resonant. This is of course just nothing more than an assumption.

Additionally, If you look at the measurements of the LSR2325P above, you'll see a big dip in response around 560hz. If I had to guess, this is caused by the resonance of the long throw surround. The larger equivalent surround on the 8" driver will probably pull this issue downwards in frequency, which I see as a good thing in all honesty.

........IMO unless we know these facts I don't think we can use words like finesse and accuracy.... so I have to disagree with your suggestion to agree to disagree. There's nothing we have concrete opinions on to disagree about. We can only guess, and we don't have enough information to make any really useful ones.
Ok, I see your point....
One point thou - whats wrong with word "accuracy"? - For me accuracy is then speakers have low margins within it's FR range - aka Flat response. The word finesse I guess doesn't belong on AH forums :)

That said - we both nit picking very fine details - both 5" and 8" versions are great speakers! I could never fit the bigger 8" on my desk for example, in fact even the 5" looks borderline ridiculously big

To OP: G-EV is 100% right on Logitech subs - pretty much any sub you pick will be an improvement even cheap stuff like these:
For only $78.30 each when QTY 50+ purchased - 12 Inch 150 Watt Powered Subwoofer - Light Wood Finish | Subwoofers
 
sholling

sholling

Audioholic Ninja
Why not get two powered speakers for now? Then add a receiver with preouts after if you do decide to add a sub?
Because receiver with preouts will cost him $500-700 down the road while one without will cost him $250 now? $700 is enough for a pair of decent starter speakers that can become surrounds after he gets out of college and a receiver and a pretty decent 1st sub. It's fun to get all esoteric but realistically drunk college friends are going to be cranking things up to tweeter blowing eviction-high levels and knocking speakers over. A receiver with Audyssey MultiEQ XT to help integrate speakers and a sub and a decent subwoofer as soon as he can afford it are going to be a lot more useful now and until he's a lot further along into the hobby.
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
One point thou - whats wrong with word "accuracy"? - For me accuracy is then speakers have low margins within it's FR range - aka Flat response.
Interesting thought So...what is more ""accurate"" ...?-

Speaker A has a $32 woofer
Speaker B has a $16 woofer from the same manufacturer and line


Speaker A is around +/- 2db from 200hz to 8khz
Speaker B is around +/- 2db from 200hz to 8khz


Speaker A weighs 26lbs
Speaker B weighs 16lbs


The answer.... Can you decide with that info? Okay, so here's another qualifier:

Speaker A is producing lower SPL wall reflections 1khz to 3khz(higher direct to reflected ratio)
Speaker B is producing higher SPL wall reflections 1khz to 3khz (lower direct to reflected ratio)


Here's your next qualifier:

Speaker A allows for dynamic peaks of 101 dB or about 93db @ 2m
Speaker B allows for dynamic peaks of 104db @ 1m or about 98db @ 2m

Here's more:

Speaker A has to move about 3mm on that 60hz kick drum hit while producing 1khz at the same time.
Speaker B has to move about 6mm on that 60hz kick drum hit while producing 1khz at the same time.


If you've looked at Le(x) or BL(x) or cms(x) testing, i think you'd agree with me that as the excursion rises, speaker behavior falls apart. Thermal power handling is another real factor.

... so given all those biased questions... deep down you would still lean towards Speaker B on the basis that it is probably more accurate... why? Yes, I qualified a few reasons why one might think so in my other post. But are these not real world considerations too towards "accurate"? We can't just focus on "accurate in an anechoic chamber at 75db on sine wave sweeps".

That's all I'm saying. I love the word accurate and you, me, all others should definitely use it. :D

I definitely do appreciate that you think the LSR 2325s sound great at high SPLs in your room at your seating position. You know that. Heck I think I probably had a little bit to do with you picking them up ( :cool: ). But I just don't think you had grounds for the suggestion that "the smaller speaker will be more accurate". If you look at the Geddes Summa, its designer claims it's, by design, the most accurate speaker in parameters relevant to perception. That with a 15" midwoofer playing up above 850hz!


That said - we both nit picking very fine details
Yes, yes we are. Ain't that why we come here? :D

I could never fit the bigger 8" on my desk for example, in fact even the 5" looks borderline ridiculously big
Right, but I'm not sure OP plans to use them on his desk. He said he has a 47 inch TV so i'm assuming he's around 6-7 feet from it. That's already around 7db to 9db reduction in output compared to what you're running on your desk at 2 feet away!



It's fun to get all esoteric
I don't think telling OP to avoid excessive equipment where possible is "getting all esoteric". The marantz I linked earlier for example was $350 and had preouts. So I don't agree that you'd have to pay big money for preouts. If anything I'd question any cheap receiver without preouts, as their amp sections are probably lacking and thus eternally restrictive.
 
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GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
makes sense. so your suggesting the LSR2328P? do you have any suggestions in the $300-$400 range?
Yes, I am. I'm sure you'll be happy with anything the fine gentleman here have suggested, but I'm pretty sure you'll be really really happy with a pair of LSR 2328 P:D :cool:

this sub you referred to really seems to fit my bill

10 Inch Powered Subwoofer - LSP10
Go for the LSP12 if you can... worth it.
 
sholling

sholling

Audioholic Ninja
I don't think telling OP to avoid excessive equipment where possible is "getting all esoteric". The marantz I linked earlier for example was $350 and had preouts. So I don't agree that you'd have to pay big money for preouts. If anything I'd question any cheap receiver without preouts, as their amp sections are probably lacking and thus eternally restrictive.
The problem for now lay in hooking up to both a new TV and computer - at least it sounds like he wants to do both. "Excessive" equipment like an AVR will let him do that easily :p. He'll be able to hook both the TV or cable box and the computer into the receiver and let it handle switching.

Now if he only had $300-400 I'd agree with the idea of powered studio monitors and a "non-excessive" switch box. ;)
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
I definitely do appreciate that you think the LSR 2325s sound great at high SPLs in your room at your seating position. You know that. Heck I think I probably had a little bit to do with you picking them up ( :cool: ).
.....
Yes, yes we are. Ain't that why we come here? :D
Ok, Lets really nit pick, You posted very interesting and education post re: Active crossovers...soon AFTER I already bought them, but I still appreciate your high opinion about them.

Yes, I am. I'm sure you'll be happy with anything the fine gentleman here have suggested, but I'm pretty sure you'll be really really happy with a pair of LSR 2328 P:D :cool:

Go for the LSP12 if you can... worth it.
I'm going to side here with Sholling:
One thing: To pick pair of active monitors to use in 2.0 system and be done with it. That's what I did for my home computer sound.

Completely another is to try integrate them with receiver and/or sub
The later option is path of much pain and many limitations

You'll need to limit yourself to subs with low-level inputs or must get avr with 5.1 pre-outs...

Also seeing Lava12 sub review on AH - I would not advice getting a lava sub...

The Energy Sub or HSU STF-2 would be much better choices

My suggestions to op are: Get the Pro-Monitors and embrace the stereo
OR start building foundation for your future HT by getting the right receiver and front speakers. The Pioneers I mention above , Bostons or even cheap P163 would be great starter speakers and would always work as surrounds if needed...
 
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gggooolllooo

Audioholic Intern
I just can't do a $350 dollar receiver. I will though if I must and sound quality is a huge bump from cheaper ones. I've been really looking at those Pioneers and would wait until they go on sale. Those subs are nice and will look for price drops on them.

This is definitely a pricier endeavor than I imagined haha

Thanks though guys! My knowledge be boosted :D:cool:;)

OH! last thing?
is the PA-120 sub just as good as those mentioned?
 
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gggooolllooo

Audioholic Intern
And this is not for just my computer sound. I do plan on it filling a decent sized room. AAHHHHHHHH! really contemplating buying that marantz right now and then just wait til more money comes in to build around that but I can't bring myself to pay $390 shipped and not have any immediate music quality boost...is it worth it??
 
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gggooolllooo

Audioholic Intern
or the Polk PSW505 for only $200? I just don't wanna be disappointed! haha grrr! decisions
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
I just can't do a $350 dollar receiver. I will though if I must and sound quality is a huge bump from cheaper ones. I've been really looking at those Pioneers and would wait until they go on sale. Those subs are nice and will look for price drops on them.
If you can't afford a receiver with an MSRP near $1000 (SR5004 MSRP = $850) then just skip the receiver. Really cheap receivers are a headache waiting to happen.

This is definitely a pricier endeavor than I imagined haha
Yes, it is. But once you hear it it will be worth every cent.

And this is not for just my computer sound. I do plan on it filling a decent sized room. AAHHHHHHHH! really contemplating buying that marantz right now and then just wait til more money comes in to build around that but I can't bring myself to pay $390 shipped and not have any immediate music quality boost...is it worth it??
Get speakers first, but don't get a cheap receiver. That's why I think large powered monitors are the way to go for the time being. You won't need a receiver for the time being as you enjoy some high quality 2.0, and when you do want to add a sub you can work forward with a surround receiver, a subwoofer, surround speakers, etc.

or the Polk PSW505 for only $200? I just don't wanna be disappointed! haha grrr! decisions
Avoid polk. A good sub is expensive; much of the time you're MUCH better off not getting a sub at all rather than getting a cheap entry level sub. In my opinion you're not dealing with any real subwoofers until around $500 from Rythmik/HSU/SVS, etc... and the good stuff is around $1000.
 
sholling

sholling

Audioholic Ninja
And this is not for just my computer sound. I do plan on it filling a decent sized room. AAHHHHHHHH! really contemplating buying that marantz right now and then just wait til more money comes in to build around that but I can't bring myself to pay $390 shipped and not have any immediate music quality boost...is it worth it??
The $240 refurbished Denon that I linked will be fine and you'll be able to connect both your computer and cable box if you have one. Add the Infinity speakers that I suggested and the Energy sub that Z suggested (avoid the Polk) and you'll have a really good 2.1 system that you can grow over time. It may not be the best of everything up front but it will sound really good and get you started. In an ideal world I'd have you get a better sub but that one is a good start. Or just get the receiver and speakers and save for the eD sub that I linked.
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
And this is not for just my computer sound. I do plan on it filling a decent sized room. AAHHHHHHHH! really contemplating buying that marantz right now and then just wait til more money comes in to build around that but I can't bring myself to pay $390 shipped and not have any immediate music quality boost...is it worth it??
You should see the people who have spent heavy from their budget
on a receiver - and then they spend less on poorer quality speakers
or they need to save more for just a pair of speakers. It is hard to
have that receiver, and then be stuck with something like those Polk
Monitors, Sony, or those crummy TV speakers that wear you out.:rolleyes:

You should read about those people, who recently went after that special
Denon 3312 receiver sale. Now some of them are wondering what to buy,
with little money left.:) Those lower priced Denons, are one of the more
efficient receivers around, for surround channel performace.
 
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gggooolllooo

Audioholic Intern
back again after some decision making!

so i think im ready to pull a few triggers here, i think im gonna rock the

denon 1712 receiver
a pair of boston a25's

at least to start out.
I've been really trying to find a sub that fits my bill pronto. im not willing to save up and buy a beast sub.

Ive been really into the PA 120 but i am having an impossible time deciding. Ive heard everything everyone has said but i still am lost with my sub choice.

Is there any sub that is pretty darn good that is on accessories 4 less? or a sub thats on sale somewhere that clearly trumps the PA 120? bostons CSSUB10B looks alright for 130 more bucks on the order Ive got set up. But will it impress me? will the PA 120? :confused: Money fellas, frickin money. you rich snitches with all your amazing set ups, im too jealous :eek:
 
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gggooolllooo

Audioholic Intern
and the PA 120 is $300+ shipping from sites I trust but $259 shipped from shop*cm and from reading reviews that site looks a bit sketchy...
 
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