Rythmik D15SE + Linkwitz Orion

[Warpdrv]

I thought the crossover max on the D15SE says "120Hz"?

But don't most people, including THX and Audioholics, recommend setting the crossover @ 80Hz?

Some people even say that setting the crossover higher than 80Hz will cause localization of the subwoofer bass. Is that nonsense?

From their own website...

Frequency Response 14 - 90 Hz (-2 dB @ 14 Hz)
Crossover slope Selectable 12 or 24 dB / octave (PEQ and XLR versions)
Crossover range (Low pass) 25 - 100 Hz

I honestly don't know any subs that cut off their FR that low - its very strange to me, but they do sound really good.
Just looking at the FR - there is no way you could crossover any higher then 80hz.


Crossing over higher is fine - until - localization starts to set in... you avoid those problems by having multiple subs to spread the bass around the room evenly. I cross my single funky lms at 100hz and would even go to 110 without a problem, but its not necessary. I have run my big boy subs all the way up to 160hz and they are simply awesome, I start to ge a little room response squiggle running up that high, so I dropped them down to 120hz.

I don't let a spec like THX or someone else dictate where to set my xover - I let the room tell me when observing the measurements I've taken... remember that the LFE channel is spec'd out to go to 120hz, so the info is there, its just basically you determining which product your going to have reproducing that material, your subs or your speakers. Again - you should be using response measurements of your rig to help make these determinations.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Just looking at the FR - there is no way you could crossover any higher then 80hz.

It's a good thing my Orions are suppose to be flat down to 25Hz @ -3dB. So I set the crossover @ 80Hz.

Some of the Orion owners think that crossing over above 60Hz is too high.

Seifried Linkwitz XO the Orion/Thor @ 50Hz.

It seems to me that 80Hz XO is very good.

But every room is different.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I've been playing around with the settings the past few days.

Crossover of 60Hz vs 80Hz: I can't tell much difference, so I went with 80Hz.

Limiter On vs Off: I can't tell any difference, so I went with Off.

Rumble Filter On vs Off: I can't tell any difference, so I went with Off.

Bass Extension 14Hz vs 20Hz: I can't tell any difference, so I went with 20Hz.

Damping High vs Low: Low seems to make the bass a little loose, so I went with High.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I just placed an order with Ascend Audio for another D15SE. Both subs together gets me the 10% discount ($219.80), so my second D15SE will cost me $879.80 + $90 UPS shipping = $969.80.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Dual Input/Y-cable for gain

I notice that when I use dual inputs to the sub (L/R RCA), the subwoofer channel level increases, so I have to decrease the subwoofer channel level in the Denon to match the other speaker channels (75dBC).

So in this case, is there a point of using dual inputs?

 

[Warpdrv]

No your just summing the signal coming from the AVR which yields a 3db increase - or is it 6 db... foggy today...
Its just a simple signal amount increase which makes it louder. When you get your second sub, you'll likely have to revisit & reduce the volumes again by the gain of the additional sub....

Just use a single rca into each sub... either left or right it really doesn't matter... adjust sub out as needed.
As I recall, you have dual sub outs on your Pre, so If your running Audyssey I would suggest rerunning it when the second arrives..... that will help you smooth out your bass response with the added sub...

 

[GranteedEV]

It's a good thing my Orions are suppose to be flat down to 25Hz @ -3dB. So I set the crossover @ 80Hz.

Some of the Orion owners think that crossing over above 60Hz is too high.

Seifried Linkwitz XO the Orion/Thor @ 50Hz.

It seems to me that 80Hz XO is very good.

But every room is different.

The Rythmik is a monopole sub. It's prone to room modes above 40hz. By crossing over low, you take advantage of the orion's dipole radiation in loading the room.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The Rythmik is a monopole sub. It's prone to room modes above 40hz. By crossing over low, you take advantage of the orion's dipole radiation in loading the room.

Linkwitz set the XO on the Thor/Orion to 50Hz, but Denon does not give the option of a 50Hz XO.

What would you set the crossover in the Denon to? 60Hz?

 

[GranteedEV]

Linkwitz set the XO on the Thor/Orion to 50Hz, but Denon does not give the option of a 50Hz XO.

What would you set the crossover in the Denon to? 60Hz?

I dunno

You're gonna have to measure the in-room response with different crossovers.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I dunno

You're gonna have to measure the in-room response with different crossovers.

So you guys are going to make buy equipments and sofware and get all technical and stuff and read all kinds of stuff, huh?

Okay, what equipments and software do you guys recommend?

 

[Warpdrv]

If your interested in starting to take measurements, which is a good idea and will allow you to expand your thought process and start to visualize what your speakers are doing in your own room...

There are roughly 3 products out there to look at...

1. REW Setup, this is likely the cheapest method for taking sweeps, but can be finicky to get running at first, once you got it setup - it should work just fine for you...
Software is free, hardware you have to buy, many different ways of putting pieces together....
http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/

2. XTZ Room Analyzer - 3X as expensive as a REW setup.pretty much plug and play though... shipped from the UK.
http://www.xtz.se/uk/products/mearurement-system/room-analyzer
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1108/xtz_room_analyzer.htm

3. Dayton Omnimic system - completely plug and play, you'll be doing sweeps in 5 mins from opening the box...
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=390-790&FTR=omnimic system

I started a thread on the Omnimic at AVS, and bought one, but I returned it - ONLY because I preferred the REW scenario, it was what I was used to and thats the only reason why, the product works fine and will take measurements, its just a bit different then what I was used to.

Again almost 3X expensive as a REW setup...



Here are the main parts I suggest you will need for a REW setup, with the idea you have a laptop to use for this... along with some cables to get it going - RCA input signal to your preamp, and xlr to the MIC type things...

I'm sure you could use other more expensive stuff, but this works just fine and its cheap...
Same as what I'm using and my Buddy Nuance/Brandon uses.

Mic with Cal file
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=390-801&FTR=emm-6 microphone

Mic Preamp
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/275195-REG/M_Audio_9900_50764_00_MobilePre_USB.html

 

[jinjuku]

Mic with Cal file
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=390-801&FTR=emm-6 microphone

Thanks for the link and kudos to Parts Express for offering this service at no extra cost. That is awesome.

 

[Warpdrv]

My pleasure sir.... Its close enough for govt work... and the price is right, although from the thread I linked to the RS meter is surprisingly good enough for many standards....

Here is a good read on the comparisons of a few mics all in one guys room... including that one...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1328136

 

[Nyal Mellor]

2. XTZ Room Analyzer - 3X as expensive as a REW setup.pretty much plug and play though... shipped from the UK.

Just a quick note to say that my company, Acoustic Frontiers, stocks and sells XTZ Room Analyzer in the US and Canada.

Also a while back I did a comparison of Room EQ Wizard against XTZ Room Analyzer which might be of interest to some folks! It's on my blog...

I think both products have their place, it all depends on your level of comfort with acoustic measurement products and the functionality you are looking for.

XTZ does have some unique features, as does Room EQ Wizard, but I don't think anyone would argue that XTZ is much easier to use.

p.s. I have Linkwitz Orions, but I've paired them with JL's subs...

 

[Biggiesized]

AcuDefTechGuy,

Did you ever consider purchasing/building a set of Thors to complement your Orions?