REW and dual subwoofer calibration help?

everettT

everettT

Audioholic Ninja
Ah so you take measurements then hook up the mini dsp so it can eq everything then you connect it between the sub and receiver to run the bass integration? Do you need any cables to hook it up or does it come with everything?
You upload the filters need from REW to the minidsp and then put it in the chain.
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Ninja
Firstly I am not hijacking anything and secondly I had not mentioned sound cards other than the DSP made by others as an alternative, given you merely stated that the minidsp was best, with nothing to back that up.

I was trying originally to answer Polish023 question, by stating use your ears to start with, given that your ears are what you will be listening to the media with.

Having your bass/subs under your speakers is fine, but it all depends on if you have them on the floor or not and what that floor is made from. Don't forget bass is not directional as such so where you have them is not that important in a house.
What type of sub is it ?
Is it a downward facing reflex speaker or is it a forward facing reflex ?
Is it carpeted or hard floor ?

All these things will create a different sound and it would be best to ask others what experience they have had with the different materials used. I have seen many different systems used by different people, who in the end, tweak the system to how they like the sound. This even goes to raising a sub further away from the floor to alter the tone.
Also placement is critical for subs, sometimes it works out were they are, or you deal with it via EQ.
 
P

Polish023

Junior Audioholic
You upload the filters need from REW to the minidsp and then put it in the chain.
Does it come with everything to hook into the receiver I’m guessing the lfe cables hook into the other side?
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Ninja
Does it come with everything to hook into the receiver I’m guessing the lfe cables hook into the other side?
They sent RCA and usb with mine, but I'd expect you might have to by buy one RCA if the length isn't right for you.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan
Does it come with everything to hook into the receiver I’m guessing the lfe cables hook into the other side?
I can’t remember what mine came with. I think just power cable and wall wart. I have thousands of cables laying around so no big deal.

Also, the mini stays in place. It’s a permanent bridge between the AVR and subs. You just tap into it with the laptop to tune it. Then unhook laptop and leave mini wherever you decide to have it. Same with REW. When using it, the laptop connects to the AVR to send the sweep tones, the mic connects to the laptop to input sweeps to rew. I’ll make a doodle...
 
P

Polish023

Junior Audioholic
Once you calibrate it the way you want you don’t have to mess with it anymore do you?
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan
Also placement is critical for subs, sometimes it works out were they are, or you deal with it via EQ.
This is exactly right. First rule of subwoofer tuning is placement. The only way to change the response is move the sub, or the LP. Your next best shot is phase and delay/distance to address the XO region and impulse response, as well as the second subwoofer.
I like how mixing boards have all those ear shaped knobs and icons and meters so you know which way to move them! I also like how engineers go to school to listen for how to master records(although it’s important to have good ears). FWIW, music production and RE-production are completely different things. Seems to be a point that you’re delivering but not being received. Too bad.
 
P

Polish023

Junior Audioholic
Haha no not me I just wanna use it to match both subs and fit their level for my room!!!
 
ATLAudio

ATLAudio

Senior Audioholic
The thing with my subs is I can’t place them anywhere else I have no other place that they will fit and be out of the way. I have each sub next to my front speakers!!! Will I still be able to get good measurements in these positions? I know placement and the room changes sound completely.
Therein lies the devil in the details. How close to the towers? Will you still get good measurements? Short answer: Maybe, but If you're only listening to music (except rap and EDM etc) with full range towers, or don't desire that much bass in your movies, then you might be fine to simply toss the subs. If you just like the subs, and like more bass than the average listener, and the aforementioned applies, I'd just run YPAO and be done with it.YMMV, but that's my advice...

Why? The PRIME reason for using a subwoofer is since subwoofer frequencies, (<80hz) can't be located by the human ear, you have more placement freedom to find a much flatter frequency response. It's a virtual certainty that the best location will not be the location of the towers, but some area off to a side, or maybe a far corner. Now, it's possible that a vastly better location could be just a foot away from your speaker, while that's not likely, it is not unheard of.

Complimenting that single sub, with an additional sub will work even better in this regard, and that second sub has less demand on proper placement. Meaning, if you can just clear out that ONE place, where one sub sounds the best, then you can keep the second sub next to the speakers, and gain most of the benefit if you found the best location for both subs. But, again, If you are placing both subs right next to the speakers, you might not be changing the bass response that you hear reproduced by the towers, except you will be adding more headroom and extension, but that might not ever be realized depending on your listening habits.
 
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William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan
Therein lies the devil in the details. How close to the towers? Will you still get good measurements? Short answer: Maybe, but If you're only listening to music (except rap and EDM etc) with full range towers, or don't desire that much bass in your movies, then you might be fine to simply toss the subs. If you just like the subs, and like more bass than the average listener, and the aforementioned applies, I'd just run YPAO and be done with it.YMMV, but that's my advice...

Why? The PRIME reason for using a subwoofer is since subwoofer frequencies, (
Complimenting that single sub, with an additional sub will work even better in this regard, and that second sub has less demand on placement. Meaning, if you can just clear out ONE place, like a far off corner, for ONE sub, you can keep the second sub next to the speakers, and gain most of the benefit if you found the best location for both subs. But, again, If you are placing both subs right next to the speakers, you're not changing the bass reproduced by the towers, except adding more headroom and extension, which might not ever be realized depending on your listening habits.
Just checking, but when you mentioned “you can place the sub anywhere “, I’m assuming you mean independently of the subwoofers, not just arbitrarily in the room. Just afraid someone might mistake that as you could just randomly place them as...
It was mentioned earlier by latte that omnidirectIonality negates the need for proper placement which is not true, since omnidirectIonality has nothing to do with room modes.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
I was using an old retired laptop for the longest time and just left everything hooked up.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan
I was using an old retired laptop for the longest time and just left everything hooked up.
Nice! We have three, but they’re all spoken for so...
That would be ideal though. Not to mention if you’re using it for source material which iirc you do as well?
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
Nice! We have three, but they’re all spoken for so...
That would be ideal though. Not to mention if you’re using it for source material which iirc you do as well?
Yup. I used it for some media too, mostly music. The ol' lappy finally bit the dust tho so I have a regular full on pc in the mix now.
 
ATLAudio

ATLAudio

Senior Audioholic
Just checking, but when you mentioned “you can place the sub anywhere “, I’m assuming you mean independently of the subwoofers, not just arbitrarily in the room. Just afraid someone might mistake that as you could just randomly place them as...
It was mentioned earlier by latte that omnidirectIonality negates the need for proper placement which is not true, since omnidirectIonality has nothing to do with room modes.
You have placement freedom to place the sub in a more optimum location for reproduction (as heard at the listening position) than where the towers are due to bass frequencies not being localized by the human ear. So, for example, if the best location is the front right corner, the bass frequencies will not be localized as coming from the corner. It will sound as if coming from the speakers.

"omnidirectIonality negates the need for proper placement"

This is false.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan
You have placement freedom to place the sub in a more optimum location for reproduction (as heard at the listening position) than where the towers are due to bass frequencies not being localized by the human ear. So, for example, if the best location is the front right corner, the bass frequencies will not be localized as coming from the corner. It will sound as if coming from the speakers.

"omnidirectIonality negates the need for proper placement"

This is false.
Good. We agree!
Latte was the one who said the above quote, but when I read your post I wasn’t sure if you were echoing his statement, especially considering your experience.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan
@Polish023
What subs are we talking about here? Assuming they don’t have any dsp built in, but maybe?
 
ATLAudio

ATLAudio

Senior Audioholic
Good. We agree!
Latte was the one who said the above quote, but when I read your post I wasn’t sure if you were echoing his statement, especially considering your experience.
Right, I'm in disagreement with most of his opinions as mentioned on this thread.

A miniDSP has many many times the proper bandwidth for applying PEQ to bass frequencies. Much of his criticism might have more warrant if we were discussing full range. I might not recommend A MiniDSP for a full range active speaker application that you plan on using for critical listening, but even then it's not terrible.

Dismissing a mic response for bass tuning is ludite speak. Beliving you can best that with just using your ear is chumpish at best. An omnidirectional mic is more than capable for bass frequencies, and presenting a visual graph of response is quick and easy. Humans aren't that sensitive to bass frequencies so a fair response might still sound good. However, the excellent response you never heard tuning by ear, will sound better.

and HDMI is fine... but oh boy, here we go...

"What type of sub is it?"
The impact of the topology of the subwoofer, if there is any, will be reflected in the measurements. A secondary consideration could be sealed vs ported, for determining room gain, but again measurements will reveal that impact as well.

"Is it a downward facing reflex speaker or is it a forward facing reflex?"
Every subwoofer creates bass from a focal point within the cabinet of the subwoofer. The position of the woofer has tertiary effect on performance. But if it did, see measurements.

"Is it carpeted or hard floor?"
This almost certainly never matters,, but room dimensions matter a lot. A secondary concern could be if on a slab, or crawlspace floor, but again, mic measurements will reveal that impact as well.

"All these things will create a different sound"
Ehh... Your primary concern are the room dimensions, and again, simple mic measurements will reveal the room's impact.

"It would be best to ask others what experience they have had with the different materials used."
It would be best to use your own quantitative date via mic measurements instead of folks opinions.

"This even goes to raising a sub further away from the floor to alter the tone."
Yes, moving a subwoofer in any of all three dimensions will change it's presentation at the listening position.
 

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